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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Dscan Needs more information related to friendly's in system

Author
Ryu Kr'll
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2017-02-25 22:20:15 UTC
okey, so i had this idea and talked about it with a few people and after explaining it to them with further detail they seemed to like the idea.

Concept:
The concept was that Dscan would have a tinted colour across the result indicating a friendly in corp or alliance. meanwhile anyone else would remain neutral as it is right now.

Reason for idea and and benefiting:

i feel like this would be a fantastic addition to the dscan cause it would better serve alliances or corps that do PvP. majority of the time, and usually when i say majority of the time i mean all the time. you end up trying to say in alliance chat is there anyone in this ship name called (insert a random ship name) in this system. but youl majority of the time never get a response because people are off doing their own thing, afk etc etc. the list goes on!


i felt like this was a good idea because its not changing anything totally drastic to the point that it will disrupt the flow or interactions that people have in game!

the only benefit is being able to identify friendly's that are within your corp and alliance (ONLY) people with bad standing with the corp or neutrals will remain the same as the dscan usually operates.




well thats just my little idea, if you felt something can be improved please share im all for suggestions :)
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#2 - 2017-02-25 23:26:58 UTC
Being able to tell what's friend or foe makes the difference between a good pilots working together well and bad pilots who are disorganised. Rather than this idea, tell all your friends to put the corp ticker as a prefix for their ship names. Tell them to not go afk in space. Just tell them to not be awful.

Making it too easy to discern friend from foe is a nerf to pvp. It's a nerf to good players. It's only actually good for idiots.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Ryu Kr'll
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2017-02-25 23:48:27 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Being able to tell what's friend or foe makes the difference between a good pilots working together well and bad pilots who are disorganised. Rather than this idea, tell all your friends to put the corp ticker as a prefix for their ship names. Tell them to not go afk in space. Just tell them to not be awful.

Making it too easy to discern friend from foe is a nerf to pvp. It's a nerf to good players. It's only actually good for idiots.


except you're not discerning foe. naming your ship a specific way is newbro type of tactics. my corp and alliance loves to do pvp either solo or organize small gang stuff or large fleets.

i also dont see how this is a nerf to pvp. the pvp interest will still be there. just you wont be wasting your time hunting a target only to find its a friendly ?

think of it as a time saving time mechanic or a a QOL improvement if it could be considered that. it minimizes chatter and confusion while trying to keep track of whos out pvping
Lugh Crow-Slave
#4 - 2017-02-26 00:00:50 UTC
yeah no


learn how to communicate with your friends
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2017-02-26 00:02:04 UTC
This would be a nerf to PvP because it would take away from of the uncertainty and skill (see: process of elimination, memorization, organization) in hunting targets and avoiding hostiles.

Right now, the current system leaves things abiguous enough to cast doubt for all sides... which is a good thing in my book.
Ryu Kr'll
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2017-02-26 00:25:00 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
yeah no


learn how to communicate with your friends


not gonna lie im probably the only one thats checking and asking that sort of stuff. there is defo no lack of communication what so ever. i think majority just dont really bother and or there pre-occupied with something else.

cause after all i feel like its only me saying that sort of stuff and checking who is who when it comes to pvp.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2017-02-26 00:33:05 UTC
Ryu Kr'll wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
yeah no


learn how to communicate with your friends


there is defo no lack of communication what so ever.

cause after all i feel like its only me saying that sort of stuff and checking who is who when it comes to pvp.




that would be a lack of communication then
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8 - 2017-02-26 01:57:03 UTC
Its a nerf to pvp because when im ratting in a system i can use d-scan to immediately and clearly tell a hostile is inbound. Its like an alarm bell telling me to gtfo.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#9 - 2017-02-26 02:43:37 UTC
Ryu Kr'll wrote:
naming your ship a specific way is newbro type of tactics


plus this

Ryu Kr'll wrote:
not gonna lie im probably the only one thats checking and asking that sort of stuff.


tells me you need to fly with a more organized and less newbro group yourself

-1, learn to communicate.
Wolfgang Jannesen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2017-02-26 15:23:16 UTC
I see your point but this is sounding like 'would be nice to have' rather than 'is a gameplay problem that needs fixing'. Your d-scan is just a ping, bouncing off an object, that's why your ship sensors can only tell its design and name, maybe range if you're lucky and its big enough. I don't expect it to track my targets for me
Leila Larphson
Interstellar Exploration Center
#11 - 2017-03-21 13:29:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Leila Larphson
Wolfgang Jannesen wrote:
I see your point but this is sounding like 'would be nice to have' rather than 'is a gameplay problem that needs fixing'.


Offtopic:
Why do some people offer this as an argument in this Channel ? This is an idea / suggestion. OP is not saying it's broken or a gameplay problem.

Ontopic:
I'd think it would make discerning friend or foe to easy, as everything that is neutral, would then be foe (it would no longer just be neutral).
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#12 - 2017-03-21 22:37:56 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Its a nerf to pvp because when im ratting in a system i can use d-scan to immediately and clearly tell a hostile is inbound. Its like an alarm bell telling me to gtfo.


Noes, not everyone needs to be hostile.

A few years back I was roaming and saw a scanning frigate on d-scan and I thought, yeay my next murderer mark on my Confessor.
I put my combat probes out and I see a message in local (zee evil OMG-SOLO-WFT-PWN-BBQ-WEALLGONNADIE "intel tool")

"This is not the ship you are looking for*

*waves arms like a jedi master

And I was like, omg a reference I know. Sad Now I have to leave him just because.


I let him leave and wrote him a message, saying that was the coolest thing I have ever seen someone saying in local (zee ebil "intel tool") and told him to get a cloak for his ship.

D-scan is fine that way it is.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Psianna Archeia
Sukebe Corporation
#13 - 2017-03-23 00:41:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Psianna Archeia
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Being able to tell what's friend or foe makes the difference between a good pilots working together well and bad pilots who are disorganised. Rather than this idea, tell all your friends to put the corp ticker as a prefix for their ship names. Tell them to not go afk in space. Just tell them to not be awful.

Making it too easy to discern friend from foe is a nerf to pvp. It's a nerf to good players. It's only actually good for idiots.


Corp tickers can be spoofed.

And for everyone saying something like "this makes the game too easy" or "learn to communicate", you're a freakin idiot. In a world of advanced software, this type of tool would have been programmed long ago. In the real world we have ways of determining friendly and foe signatures, why the hell wouldn't they have already figured out how to do that in an advanced. No one says: "Oh this feature would give me an unfair advantage, let me not program it in an effort to make things better for my opponent."

How about we just get rid of D-Scan all together? Or better yet, get rid of Overview. Then EVERYTHING can be skill...like seriously, how is "too easy" even a valid argument?

There is no reason you shouldn't know who your friends are without having to wait until someone responds before you can react to a threat.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#14 - 2017-03-23 00:55:37 UTC
The 'advanced' technology that determines friend from foe IS your ticker in d-scan. And there is just as advanced technology that can fool it. (someone mimicking it). No you cannot have an infallible way to determine friend from foe. There are many players that even want local removed.

Yes its because it makes things too easy. The challenges and uncertainty provided by the game like this is what makes the game fun! If you want easy safety you can always live in hi-sec.

Don't throw your bottle out of the pram.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#15 - 2017-03-23 01:19:46 UTC
Partially agree.

Ships that are in your fleet should be highlighted on d-scan (and probably filterable so they don't clutter up your results). They're actively working with you, communication is established, and confirming someone's identity is a minor obstacle at best. The absence of highlighting/filtering is less an interesting gameplay factor and more of an awkward interface problem.

Ships that are in your alliance shouldn't be highlighted. You might be in the same group as them, but so are (potentially) thousands of other people. You aren't necessarily actively communicating with them, so d-scan shouldn't offer you something that you don't already have access to.

And, needless to say, ships that you have merely set positive/negative standings to, declared a war on, etc, should absolutely not be highlighted in any way.
Ryu Kr'll
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2017-03-27 00:32:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Ryu Kr'll
Daichi Yamato wrote:
The 'advanced' technology that determines friend from foe IS your ticker in d-scan. And there is just as advanced technology that can fool it. (someone mimicking it). No you cannot have an infallible way to determine friend from foe. There are many players that even want local removed.

Yes its because it makes things too easy. The challenges and uncertainty provided by the game like this is what makes the game fun! If you want easy safety you can always live in hi-sec.

Don't throw your bottle out of the pram.


i still don't get why you think this makes the game easy. its a simplified method in order to help with communication. if i see people on a small outpost warp to it, warp in, only to find its friendly but s/he or they are not paying attention to alliance chat, witch at that point why would they. they're focused on fleet chat etc etc.

ive wasted 2-3-5 god knows how many minutes thinking on a strategy. all while waiting for a response in alliance chat. only to find its someone or some people off doing their own little gang fleet etc. so remind me again how thats a communication error. they have their attention spread elsewhere. you honestly cant expect people to constantly be checking alliance chat. for a couple people inquiring about who is who and what not.

i also dont get where people are getting this identify foe from. all i suggested was that it would be a time saver if Dscan showed us a symbol or color to better show who is friendly within Dscan range.

the challenge and uncertainty will still be there. just the pointless time organizing and thinking can be put to better use to find content rather than have it wasted only to find its afk corp mate / alliance member or that they simply might not be paying attention.
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#17 - 2017-03-27 01:34:47 UTC
Ryu Kr'll wrote:

i also dont get where people are getting this identify foe from. all i suggested was that it would be a time saver if Dscan showed us a symbol or color to better show who is friendly within Dscan range.

In almost all cases outside of hisec, anything that isn't friend is foe. If I know you're not a friend, I have identified you as a foe.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#18 - 2017-03-27 02:27:36 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Ryu Kr'll wrote:
i also dont get where people are getting this identify foe from. all i suggested was that it would be a time saver if Dscan showed us a symbol or color to better show who is friendly within Dscan range.

If you can identify friend versus foe, you can avoid danger altogether by essentially warping away to safety as soon as a "foe" icon appears.

This is already done with local chat.

As soon as a "non-friendly" person appears in system, everyone will simply dock up and begin organizing to deal with the unwanted intruder.

Once a response fleet has been organized, the only advantage that the intruder has (beyond tactics and maybe a cyno field) is the ambiguity that the user interface creates (see: D-Scan will not clearly identify a hostile ship).

Ryu Kr'll wrote:
the challenge and uncertainty will still be there. just the pointless time organizing and thinking can be put to better use to find content rather than have it wasted only to find its afk corp mate / alliance member or that they simply might not be paying attention.

No... uncertainly won't be there under your change.

What you are proposing is a way to effectively remove uncertainty by identifying "who, what, and where" (whereas the current system only provides "what and where").


And "organization" is part of the game. It is not merely an inconvenience that should be mitigated.

That uncertainty and ability to communicate is what makes "good" players actually "good."

Ryu Kr'll wrote:
ive wasted 2-3-5 god knows how many minutes thinking on a strategy. all while waiting for a response in alliance chat. only to find its someone or some people off doing their own little gang fleet etc. so remind me again how thats a communication error. they have their attention spread elsewhere. you honestly cant expect people to constantly be checking alliance chat. for a couple people inquiring about who is who and what not.

If this is the case then you are either communicating with the wrong people or in a group that can't organize properly.

I HIGHLY suggest that you move to low-sec and try working with a hunter-killer group to get some experience working with people who value good communication and organization.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#19 - 2017-03-28 22:28:32 UTC
If they are in space, yes id expect you to have alliance chat tab open or on 'blink'. They can goto station or cloak to go afk (not on d-scan)

Don't know how you're struggling with this. You say you're having difficulty communicating with your team. You want to make it easier to identify friend from foe when your friends are being bads.

What's so hard to get here?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#20 - 2017-03-29 02:29:21 UTC
Ryu Kr'll wrote:
ive wasted 2-3-5 god knows how many minutes thinking on a strategy. all while waiting for a response in alliance chat. only to find its someone or some people off doing their own little gang fleet etc. so remind me again how thats a communication error. they have their attention spread elsewhere. you honestly cant expect people to constantly be checking alliance chat. for a couple people inquiring about who is who and what not.


Yes, and this is exactly my point. The current system rewards people that are well organized and able to communicate quickly and efficiently. That delay of several minutes is potentially a big deal in combat, so why should d-scan eliminate it for you?