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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Jakara Dakara
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#141 - 2017-02-26 04:12:21 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jakara Dakara wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Disclaimer: I understand that ganking is a part of the game and I am completely ok with that. I actually like that people in highsec are not completely protected.

Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in.

To implement this i propose two changes:

First:
CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. Customs officials already behave this way on gates so it makes complete sense to expand this behavior to CONCORD's abilities. CONCORD should not be made to look like fools who can be manipulated.

Here is an example of when this second phase would kick in:

1.0 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-4.0 and lower)
0.9 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-5.0 and lower)
0.8 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-6.0 and lower)
0.7 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-7.0 and lower)
0.6 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-8.0 and lower)
0.5 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-9.0 and lower)
0.4 system and lower - not applicable

Second:
To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most.

I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal.

This would also bring more meaning to tags, where they can be used to repair status so that mission running is not the only option. Gankers would have to weigh tags cost against target profit to be effective.

CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control.



OK
1) You should try searching the forum, this post has been made, ad nauseam, again and again and again.
2) Concord is designed to react to a crime not prevent, CCP has not mentioned wanting to change this.
3) Concord gets regularly made a fool out of in the lore, why can't we have fun with the police too?
4) Having alpha safety locks has been mentioned in other threads as well, they don't want to take emergent game play away from them
5) Everything you mentioned would still severely damage the ability for dudes to gank, even worse than it has been already.
6) You've mentioned you steal the loot from a gank and profit off of it (making it less worthwhile for the gankers I might add), why would you want to remove that emergent gameplay/profit source from yourself?


because its bad gameplay for a highsec system and I can make isk in any security status. I dont rely on ganks for income.


so what about points 1 - 5?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#142 - 2017-02-26 04:29:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
NightmareX wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Why are you expecting NPC's to make it harder for gankers? You already have the tools to do it yourself.

Gankers will adapt to any changes that happen with regards to Concord response, just as they have in the past. People will still continue to do stupid stuff like put eleventy billion isk in an untanked freighter and AP it through a chokepoint, they will explode and this thread will start all over again.

For example, some of the changes people suggest and the gankers obvious response
Faster response times : Bring more DPS
Longer timers: They switch between gank characters.
Scaling response times on ganking history : CCP's database admin ganks you for making his life hell.

It's a constant cycle of one more nerf will fix ganking, and it never does because ganking isn't the problem, stupidity is.

CCP can't patch stupid.

Again. Do you think it's fine that you get the exact same treatment from the police / Concord everytime you do a crime over and over again over being punished harder and harder the more crimes you do (which is logical by human nature by the way)?
Concord don't care how often you kill, they only care that you kill without sanction. What you're suggesting is that Concord have access to someones kill history and scales their response accordingly, which raises questions.
  • How do they distinguish between legal and illegal kills for scaling purposes?
  • How much work would be required to implement your suggestion?
  • Would the time spent implementing this be better spent elsewhere?
  • Would it actually fix anything?

    • Quote:
    And why do you think it's fair that i get the same treatment from Concord for suiciding on a Rifter as you get for suiciding a massive freighter?
    Your crime is that you shot something without the appropriate flags. What you shoot is completely irrelevant.

    Quote:
    If i steal a small pack og bubblegum and if i steal a car, do you think i will get punished the same for stealing the pack of bubblegum as i get for stealing the car?
    Your analogy is flawed, this is not about value, this is about the actual act of crime. The crime being shooting at another player without sanction.

    Using the example of cars, if you steal a car, whether it be a Bentley or a Kia, the Police and the courts wouldn't care what car you stole, they would only care that you stole a car; your punishment is for the crime of stealing a car, not stealing a Kia or a Bentley.

    In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

    New Player FAQ

    Feyd's Survival Pack
    NightmareX
    Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
    #143 - 2017-02-26 04:34:51 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    NightmareX wrote:
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    Why are you expecting NPC's to make it harder for gankers? You already have the tools to do it yourself.

    Gankers will adapt to any changes that happen with regards to Concord response, just as they have in the past. People will still continue to do stupid stuff like put eleventy billion isk in an untanked freighter and AP it through a chokepoint, they will explode and this thread will start all over again.

    For example, some of the changes people suggest and the gankers obvious response
    Faster response times : Bring more DPS
    Longer timers: They switch between gank characters.
    Scaling response times on ganking history : CCP's database admin ganks you for making his life hell.

    It's a constant cycle of one more nerf will fix ganking, and it never does because ganking isn't the problem, stupidity is.

    CCP can't patch stupid.

    Again. Do you think it's fine that you get the exact same treatment from the police / Concord everytime you do a crime over and over again over being punished harder and harder the more crimes you do (which is logical by human nature by the way)?
    Concord don't care how often you kill, they only care that you kill without sanction. What you're suggesting is that Concord have access to someones kill history and scales their response accordingly, which raises questions.
  • How do they distinguish between legal and illegal kills for scaling purposes?
  • How much work would be required to implement your suggestion?
  • Would the time spent implementing this be better spent elsewhere?
  • Would it actually fix anything?

    • Quote:
    And why do you think it's fair that i get the same treatment from Concord for suiciding on a Rifter as you get for suiciding a massive freighter?
    Your crime is that you shot something without the appropriate flags. What you shoot is completely irrelevant.

    Quote:
    If i steal a small pack og bubblegum and if i steal a car, do you think i will get punished the same for stealing the pack of bubblegum as i get for stealing the car?
    Your analogy is flawed, this is not about value, this is about the actual act of crime.

    Using you example of cars, if you steal a car, be it a Bentley or a Kia, the Police and the courts wouldn't care what car you stole, they only care that you stole a car; your punishment is for the crime of stealing a car, not stealing a Kia or a Bentley.

    You still haven't explained why Concord shouldn't take into consideration on how much you have ganked each day?

    They are the police and are supposed to have control over the crimes you do.

    Yeah, Concord should punish you harder and harder within the Concord timer ONCE they take you for doing a new crime.

    Yeah, Concord doesn't looks after that now, but that doesn't mean they can't do it in the future. Because it's normal that when you commit a crime, it should be harder and harder for you to avoid Concord within the Concord timer the more crimes you do.

    If you do not agree with this, then please give reasonable reasons why this wouldn't work?

    Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

    1: Asteroid Madness

    2: Clash of the Empires

    3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
    Kill-Chan
    Garoun Investment Bank
    Gallente Federation
    #144 - 2017-02-26 04:55:48 UTC
    Praise James no one in their right minds would listen to your terrible ideas.
    Jonah Gravenstein
    Machiavellian Space Bastards
    #145 - 2017-02-26 04:56:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
    NightmareX wrote:
    You still haven't explained why Concord shouldn't take into consideration on how much you have ganked each day?
    You still haven't explained why they should, nor have you taken into consideration what would need to be done on the back-end for Concord to work in this way.

    The fact of the matter is that they don't. You commit your crime, your ship dies and you get to wait out a 15 minute timer. Once that timer is up your record is wiped as far as Concord is concerned. If someone ganks multiple ships each day they have a low security status and are likely free to be engaged, shoot them in the face when they undock, shoot them in the face at the gates before they start shooting other people in the face. The Faction Police will be shooting at them too, when they catch up.

    The tools to inflict retribution over and above that provided by the game are already in your hands, that's what they're there for. Stop being lazy and expecting CCP to further punish ganking via mechanics changes; use the tools at your disposal to do it yourself.

    The means are also there to make gankers go and pick another target, many are common sense precautions, some require knowledge of game mechanics. What people forget is that Eve is above all a full loot PvP game; you don't AFK, you don't carry all your shiny stuff, you don't fit your ship with nothing but cargo mods, this is some of that common sense.

    Quote:
    Yeah, Concord should punish you harder and harder within the Concord timer ONCE they take you for doing a new crime.
    How? You lose your ship in seconds, you can't warp, you cant undock in anything but a pod. The only thing left is podding, gankers won't care, they'll just use implant free clones for ganking and wake up in a med clone at the same station, because they're not daft and set the station that they're working out of up with a med clone.

    Quote:
    Yeah, Concord doesn't looks after that now, but that doesn't mean they can't do it in the future. Because it's normal that when you commit a crime, it should be harder and harder for you to avoid Concord within the Concord timer the more crimes you do.
    Which part of you can't avoid Concord did you fail to understand? It's mechanically impossible and if you do find a way it's a ban.

    Quote:
    If you do not agree with this, then please give reasonable reasons why this wouldn't work?
    See all of the above, you're another one that has no idea how Concord and Crimewatch actually work.

    In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

    New Player FAQ

    Feyd's Survival Pack
    Tuggin Coggs
    State Protectorate
    Caldari State
    #146 - 2017-02-26 04:59:16 UTC
    give all transports drones and i think we are on to somethingBlink
    Imya Wormhole
    Imperial Shipment
    Amarr Empire
    #147 - 2017-02-26 05:00:48 UTC
    I love how he is using the goons WWB background while complaining about goons ganking him.
    Budsin Adar
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #148 - 2017-02-26 05:09:14 UTC
    Erich Einstein wrote:
    Disclaimer: I understand that ganking is a part of the game and I am completely ok with that. I actually like that people in highsec are not completely protected.

    Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station. Ganking as a profession and source of income should come with the requirement of having to manage and repair your security status based on the system that you are ganking in.

    To implement this i propose two changes:

    First:
    CONCORD should respond differently if a pilot's security status falls low enough in a particular highsec system. This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly. Customs officials already behave this way on gates so it makes complete sense to expand this behavior to CONCORD's abilities. CONCORD should not be made to look like fools who can be manipulated.

    Here is an example of when this second phase would kick in:

    1.0 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-4.0 and lower)
    0.9 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-5.0 and lower)
    0.8 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-6.0 and lower)
    0.7 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-7.0 and lower)
    0.6 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-8.0 and lower)
    0.5 system - CONCORD phase 2 (-9.0 and lower)
    0.4 system and lower - not applicable

    Second:
    To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most.

    I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal.

    This would also bring more meaning to tags, where they can be used to repair status so that mission running is not the only option. Gankers would have to weigh tags cost against target profit to be effective.

    CCP Please implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control.

    I totally agree. Now those offenders like CODE example with -10.0 boot them from highsec but can only travel in pods no different than faction war stats like most of us have where we cannot go to amarr Jita Rens and Dodixie, also how can we have tags as well to get to fly back into their systems without mission running as much like with stats showing as of -9.0 or what have you thanks.
    Jonah Gravenstein
    Machiavellian Space Bastards
    #149 - 2017-02-26 05:09:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
    Imya Wormhole wrote:
    I love how he is using the goons WWB background while complaining about goons ganking him.
    I love how both the OP and NightmareX appear to be wholly ignorant of the mechanic that they're trying to "fix".

    Budsin Adar wrote:
    I totally agree. Now those offenders like CODE example with -10.0 boot them from highsec but can only travel in pods no different than faction war stats like most of us have where we cannot go to amarr Jita Rens and Dodixie, also how can we have tags as well to get to fly back into their systems without mission running as much like with stats showing as of -9.0 or what have you thanks.
    Oh look another one.

    FW pilots can totally fly stuff in highsec, even in Jita and Amarr, you just have to be faster than the Faction Police/Navy and the people you're at war with.

    Prolific gankers have the same restrictions that FW pilots do, those same NPCs shoot at them because their sec status takes priority over their faction standings; and everybody can shoot at them without penalty.

    In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

    New Player FAQ

    Feyd's Survival Pack
    NightmareX
    Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
    #150 - 2017-02-26 05:17:16 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    You still haven't explained why they should, nor have you taken into consideration what would need to be done on the back-end for Concord to work in this way.

    I have explained why. I have explained it's the police's work to keep track of your crimes. And the more crimes you do, the more they will punish you. Doesn't that sounds right to you?

    And most things is possible to do in EVE today, so making Concord harder against you the more you do crimes should be no problem to fix.
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    The fact of the matter is that they don't. You commit your crime, your ship dies and you get to wait out a 15 minute timer. Once that timer is up your record is wiped as far as Concord is concerned. If someone ganks multiple ships each day they have a low security status and are likely free to be engaged, shoot them in the face when they undock, shoot them in the face at the gates before they start shooting other people in the face.


    Yeah wow, the whole 15 minutes until you can do the same crime over and over and over in the infinite without having anything to worry about. Yeah, that's professional police / Concord work right there that allows that to happen over and over again without giving you more penalities.
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    The tools to inflict retribution over and above that provided by the game are already in your hands, that's what they're there for. Stop being lazy and expecting CCP to further punish ganking via mechanics changes; use the tools at your disposal to do it yourself.

    So all freighter pilots have to use this and that to be able to function as normal in high sec while you gankers doesn't have to be dependent on anything else for a bumping ship to be able to do what you are supposed to do?

    Again, i'm not saying you shouldn't be able to gank. I'm just saying the penalties should raise the more crimes you do, which is normal in our human nature to do against criminals. SO why shouldn't it be the same in EVE when EVE is all about humans in space to begin with?
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    The means are also there to make gankers go and pick another target, many are common sense precautions, some require knowledge of game mechanics. What people forget is that Eve is above all a full loot PvP game; you don't AFK, you don't carry all your shiny stuff, you don't fit your ship with nothing but cargo mods, this is some of that common sense.

    Like i have said, you are free to go and gank more stuffs. But the challenge will be harder as the police / Concord will be hunting you and will try to kill you more actively and faster the more you do crimes.

    This is a normal police tactic. So i don't see why it can't be like that in EVE.


    --------> Continues on next post.

    Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

    1: Asteroid Madness

    2: Clash of the Empires

    3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
    NightmareX
    Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
    #151 - 2017-02-26 05:18:30 UTC
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    How? You lose your ship in seconds, you can't warp, you cant undock in anything but a pod. The only thing left is podding, gankers won't care, they'll just use implant free clones for ganking and wake up in a med clone at the same station, because they're not daft and set the station that they're working out of up with a med clone.

    Yeah, you lose a ship worth a couple of million isks and 15 minutes of your time. Such a horrible punishment to lose when you takes into the consideration that you freely without ANY risks except for losing the worthless ship can just do this over and over and over again every 15 mins without any other consequences.

    You think it's ok to do crimes this way over and over and not being punished harder over continuing doing the said crime?

    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    Which part of you can't avoid Concord did you fail to understand? It's mechanically impossible and if you do find a way it's a ban.

    I never said avoid Concord. I said to be able to get away somewhere AFTER Concord have killed you for doing a crime while being within the Concord timer. If you do commit a crime or suicide someone, then Concord will kill you. If you avoid that, then yes, it's a bannable offense. But that's not what i'm talking about. I'm talking about leaving a system under the Concord timer AFTER you have been killed by them.

    I'm just saying it should be harder to roam in high sec the more crimes you do each day from downtime to downtime.

    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    See all of the above, you're another one that has no idea how Concord and Crimewatch actually work.

    I'm sorry, but look at my replies over first before you claim i have no clues. I have been plahing EVE since early 2004, but i for sure knows how this works. All i want is a system that will makes it harder for players who have committed a crime to freely roam around in high sec without getting caught by Concord or whatever.

    Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

    1: Asteroid Madness

    2: Clash of the Empires

    3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
    NightmareX
    Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
    #152 - 2017-02-26 05:19:45 UTC
    Imya Wormhole wrote:
    I love how he is using the goons WWB background while complaining about goons ganking him.

    If you are talking about me, then no, i use the Voltron / MBC background from the WWB.

    The other one that is the new background is the Imperium one.

    Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

    1: Asteroid Madness

    2: Clash of the Empires

    3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
    Circo Maximo
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #153 - 2017-02-26 05:19:48 UTC
    NightmareX wrote:
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    NightmareX wrote:
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    If you want ganking to be harder or not as profitable, you pay attention to what you're doing and don't present them with easy or juicy targets.

    It's that fecking simple.

    Still doesn't makes the idea of getting the Concord to be harder against the gankers the more they gank bad in any ways. There should be some kind of a trade off for doing that more and more.
    Why are you expecting NPC's to make it harder for gankers? You already have the tools to do it yourself.

    Gankers will adapt to any changes that happen with regards to Concord response, just as they have in the past. People will still continue to do stupid stuff like put eleventy billion isk in an untanked freighter and AP it through a chokepoint, they will explode and this thread will start all over again.

    For example, some of the changes people suggest and the gankers obvious response
    Faster response times : Bring more DPS
    Longer timers: They switch between gank characters.
    Scaling response times on ganking history : CCP's database admin ganks you for making his life hell.

    It's a constant cycle of one more nerf will fix ganking, and it never does because ganking isn't the problem, stupidity is.

    CCP can't patch stupid.

    Again. Do you think it's fine that you get the exact same treatment from the police / Concord everytime you do a crime over and over again over being punished harder and harder the more crimes you do (which is logical by human nature by the way)?

    And why do you think it's fair that i get the same treatment from Concord for suiciding on a Rifter as you get for suiciding a massive freighter?

    If i steal a small pack og bubblegum and if i steal a car, do you think i will get punished the same for stealing the pack of bubblegum as i get for stealing the car?


    All capsuleers matter. Your freighter doesn't deserve more protection from CONCORD than that rifter. If what you have is so valuable, protect it better. One person shouldn't be invincible anywhere in the game. You already have CONCORD killing everyone that attacks people and attacking criminals on sight.

    Put more time in playing smarter instead of sitting there begging for your hand to be held more. Don't play an MMO if you don't want player interaction.
    NightmareX
    Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
    #154 - 2017-02-26 05:23:29 UTC
    Circo Maximo wrote:
    All capsuleers matter. Your freighter doesn't deserve more protection from CONCORD than that rifter. If what you have is so valuable, protect it better. One person shouldn't be invincible anywhere in the game. You already have CONCORD killing everyone that attacks people and attacking criminals on sight.

    Put more time in playing smarter instead of sitting there begging for your hand to be held more. Don't play an MMO if you don't want player interaction.

    But this is not about what ship you fly. It's about the crimes you do. The more crimes you do, the more penalties or consequences you should face. It's logic by human nature to threat criminals like that. So the same should be in EVE to.

    Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

    1: Asteroid Madness

    2: Clash of the Empires

    3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
    NightmareX
    Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
    #155 - 2017-02-26 05:27:16 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    Imya Wormhole wrote:
    I love how he is using the goons WWB background while complaining about goons ganking him.
    I love how both the OP and NightmareX appear to be wholly ignorant of the mechanic that they're trying to "fix".

    Says the guy who think doing crimes over and over again should not gain you more penalities or consequences.

    Don't pretend to be a smart guy if you can't explain why there shouldn't be a system like that in EVE.

    Oh i forgot. That's because you then can't do the risk free and no consequences ganking all day long as easily as you can do it today.

    Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

    1: Asteroid Madness

    2: Clash of the Empires

    3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
    Jonah Gravenstein
    Machiavellian Space Bastards
    #156 - 2017-02-26 05:38:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
    NightmareX wrote:
    Yeah, you lose a ship worth a couple of million isks and 15 minutes of your time. Such a horrible punishment to lose when you takes into the consideration that you freely without ANY risks except for losing the worthless ship can just do this over and over and over again every 15 mins without any other consequences.

    You think it's ok to do crimes this way over and over and not being punished harder over continuing doing the said crime?
    Yes, it's a game.

    Quote:

    I never said avoid Concord. I said to be able to get away somewhere AFTER Concord have killed you for doing a crime while being within the Concord timer. If you do commit a crime or suicide someone, then Concord will kill you. If you avoid that, then yes, it's a bannable offense. But that's not what i'm talking about. I'm talking about leaving a system under the Concord timer AFTER you have been killed by them.
    If you're under the timer to which Concord respond then your changes won't fix the things that you claim it'll will fix.

    The reason being that it's mechanically impossible to leave the system in anything other than a pod or via a jump clone while under a criminal flag/timer, and Concord don't pod. Even if they did, it would make little difference to gankers because they tend to work in select systems, which they'll never need to leave while under the timer to which Concord responds; and as mentioned med clones are a thing.

    Quote:
    I'm just saying it should be harder to roam in high sec the more crimes you do each day from downtime to downtime.
    I'm saying that your suggestion is aimed at making it easier and easier for the stupid, the greedy and the lazy to ply the space lanes without losing their stuff.

    Why should the people who put effort into their gameplay be penalised for it, while at the same rewarding those who don't put any effort or thought in at all?

    How is that anywhere near balanced?

    Quote:
    I'm sorry, but look at my replies over first before you claim i have no clues. I have been plahing EVE since early 2004, but i for sure knows how this works. All i want is a system that will makes it harder for players who have committed a crime to freely roam around in high sec without getting caught by Concord or whatever.
    I don't care how long you've been playing, either your knowledge is lacking or you have difficulty demonstrating it on the forums.

    Oh and you're wrong about something else, I'm no ganker, I'm the prey that gets away because I'm don't fly stupid.

    In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

    New Player FAQ

    Feyd's Survival Pack
    NightmareX
    Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
    #157 - 2017-02-26 05:40:46 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    Yes, it's a game.

    So just because it's a game, the game can't be improved or balanced to let criminals be threated as actual criminals?

    I'm not sure, but i think you shouldn't talk so loudly on who knows what when you can't even explain the things i'm talking about, JUST BECAUSE IT'S A FREAKING GAME.

    And just because you are einstein doesn't mean everyone else is that. Even though they aren't a rocket scientist, doesn't mean that the game can't get improved for the better for all.

    Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

    1: Asteroid Madness

    2: Clash of the Empires

    3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
    Jonah Gravenstein
    Machiavellian Space Bastards
    #158 - 2017-02-26 05:44:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
    NightmareX wrote:
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    Yes, it's a game.

    So just because it's a game, the game can't be improved or balanced to let criminals be threated as actual criminals?

    I'm not sure, but i think you shouldn't talk so loudly on who knows what when you can't even explain the things i'm talking about, JUST BECAUSE IT'S A FREAKING GAME.
    Nobody is saying that the game shouldn't be improved, we're saying that your suggestion isn't an improvement according to the general consensus of opinion.

    Some of those opinions, and the relevant mechanics discussion, are coming from people who know the mechanics inside out because those mechanics are their bread and butter.

    In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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    NightmareX
    Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
    #159 - 2017-02-26 05:48:04 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    Nobody is saying that the game shouldn't be improved, we're saying that your suggestion isn't an improvement in our opinion.

    And why isn't it an improvement to actually threat criminals as actual criminals?

    EDIT: Going to bed now, so i will answer or give out new posts if needed later today.

    Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

    1: Asteroid Madness

    2: Clash of the Empires

    3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
    Jonah Gravenstein
    Machiavellian Space Bastards
    #160 - 2017-02-26 05:56:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
    NightmareX wrote:
    Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
    Nobody is saying that the game shouldn't be improved, we're saying that your suggestion isn't an improvement in our opinion.

    And why isn't it an improvement to actually threat criminals as actual criminals?
    Because in all likelihood it will fail miserably to change anything because gankers will adapt and keep on ganking.

    This is what history tells us about nerfs to ganking.
  • Gankers get nerfed
  • Gankers adapt.
  • People still explode and whine on the forums about it.
  • Someone else comes up with a great idea to make ganking more difficult.

    • Ad infinitum. The grand circle of one more nerf.

    Now your turn to answer a question.

    I wrote:
    Why should the people who put effort into their gameplay be penalised for it, while at the same rewarding those who don't put any effort or thought in at all?

    How is that anywhere near balanced?

    In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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