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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#121 - 2017-02-26 03:01:10 UTC
tl;dr
op hates ganking
op wants ganking to dissapear by havong concord preventing ganks XD

CONCORD is there to punish, not to prevent
That's how it always was, that's how it'll stay Blink

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#122 - 2017-02-26 03:02:02 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk.

Is lame excuses all you can give?

You don't even give any reasonable arguments or reasons why there shouldn't be a system in EVE like i mentioned. So why should we listen to you?

You said this is EVE yadda yadda yadda. Yes we know it's EVE, but EVE still has to be balanced both towards normal players AND the gankers.


I keep repeating it hoping you'll understand the point. The freighter pilot creates the ganking opportunity by overloading his freighter. You keep calling it lame because you can't logically refute the point.

And the cash-transport car also creates the ambush / stealing oppoturnity for peoples who want to do crimes / steal money. But that alone doesn't mean the criminals can just keep going and steal the money everytime they see a cash-transport car with no consequences for continueing to do that.

Your excuses doesn't work.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#123 - 2017-02-26 03:02:33 UTC
Just have CONCORD pod the suckers...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Circo Maximo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2017-02-26 03:02:37 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
CCP should not be balancing player's actions. If a player takes on too much risk it is not CCP's problem, it is the players problem. You can't patch out stupid. Yet here we have the OP trying to patch out stupid.


Who are you to say what CCP should be doing. CCP is a business and whatever makes gameplay more enjoyable for all is aloud to be changed. There are regular content / features patches for a reason. Its called reactive development.


Players are punished in highsec by being killed and lowered security status where they aren't free to fly anywhere without being chased and killed. What is your issue? No one is entitled to being invincible while outnumbered. Make your ship economically unfeasible to be killed and profited from, the end. If people can form fleets to kill you, you should have to put in the same effort to stay alive as well. Get organized and get good instead of putting all your effort into crying for CCP to save you from your own ineptitude.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#125 - 2017-02-26 03:04:11 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Janeos wrote:
I haven't seen a vein of salt this rich in YEARS.

This has nothing to do with salt. It has all to do with balancing the game out for what criminals are allowed to keep doing days in and days out without risks or consequences.

You know pretty well you have a nice luxury doing this and doesn't want to have a harder time doing this the more crimes you do.
Dom Arkaral wrote:
tl;dr
op hates ganking
op wants ganking to dissapear by havong concord preventing ganks XD

CONCORD is there to punish, not to prevent
That's how it always was, that's how it'll stay Blink

Yeah, Concord (like the police) should be there to punish you harder and harder the more crimes you do like it is in real life. Isn't that kinda logic?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#126 - 2017-02-26 03:19:30 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk.


You obviously dont know that goons sit in jita ganking whatever they can 24 hours a day. They are able to sit in 0.9 and 1.0 system stations with -10.0 security status. When they undock they dont even have to worry about faction police. They jump whereever they want and gank whatever they want without any negating gameplay effects whatsoever. All it takes is a mach bumper on each gate and they can stop any freighter that they desire and hold them as long as they desire. Bumpers do not go suspect and can even target the freighter so that it cant log out for 15min. Its a complete joke.


And yet all of this can be avoided by:

1. Not over stuffing your freighter.
2. Using a scout.
3. Having your scout use webs.

There are options for prudent play but the OP prefers to reward stupidity.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#127 - 2017-02-26 03:26:03 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk.

Is lame excuses all you can give?

You don't even give any reasonable arguments or reasons why there shouldn't be a system in EVE like i mentioned. So why should we listen to you?

You said this is EVE yadda yadda yadda. Yes we know it's EVE, but EVE still has to be balanced both towards normal players AND the gankers.


I keep repeating it hoping you'll understand the point. The freighter pilot creates the ganking opportunity by overloading his freighter. You keep calling it lame because you can't logically refute the point.

And the cash-transport car also creates the ambush / stealing oppoturnity for peoples who want to do crimes / steal money. But that alone doesn't mean the criminals can just keep going and steal the money everytime they see a cash-transport car with no consequences for continueing to do that.

Your excuses doesn't work.


Let me see, they use an armored car and the guards have weapons...and they work in a society where people are not even contemplating trying to rob it. Oh yeah...and there are no clones for us to wake up in RL if we get killed.

Yeah, that is a totally valid comparison.[/sarcasm]

Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#128 - 2017-02-26 03:27:51 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk.


You obviously dont know that goons sit in jita ganking whatever they can 24 hours a day. They are able to sit in 0.9 and 1.0 system stations with -10.0 security status. When they undock they dont even have to worry about faction police. They jump whereever they want and gank whatever they want without any negating gameplay effects whatsoever. All it takes is a mach bumper on each gate and they can stop any freighter that they desire and hold them as long as they desire. Bumpers do not go suspect and can even target the freighter so that it cant log out for 15min. Its a complete joke.


And yet all of this can be avoided by:

1. Not over stuffing your freighter.
2. Using a scout.
3. Having your scout use webs.

There are options for prudent play but the OP prefers to reward stupidity.

1. So that means i can't take money with me or my expensive smartphone in my jacket when i'm out walking, just because there can be thieves that can just rob me time after times?

Ofc not. You will take those things with you because the police are there to catch those thieves and punish them if they rob me. And if they later are robbing others again, then ofc the police will punish them even harder for comitting the same crimes over again. Or what do you think, they should get a clap on the shoulder being told not to do those nasty things everytime?

2. Yeah, let's just call my friend that has to hold my hand everytime i go to the grocery store so he can look around for some baddies or naughty peoples so i don't gets scared by them.

Not only that, but you don't see a freaking police car in front of a moneytransporter car everytime they are going to deliver money or whatever.

3. You shouldn't have to use an alt to be able to fly a freighter in a normal way in empire. Yes, you can use an alt for some extra benefits that way. But you shouldn't have to use one with the freighter pilot to be able to use the damn things in empire.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#129 - 2017-02-26 03:28:19 UTC
Circo Maximo wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
CCP should not be balancing player's actions. If a player takes on too much risk it is not CCP's problem, it is the players problem. You can't patch out stupid. Yet here we have the OP trying to patch out stupid.


Who are you to say what CCP should be doing. CCP is a business and whatever makes gameplay more enjoyable for all is aloud to be changed. There are regular content / features patches for a reason. Its called reactive development.


Players are punished in highsec by being killed and lowered security status where they aren't free to fly anywhere without being chased and killed. What is your issue? No one is entitled to being invincible while outnumbered. Make your ship economically unfeasible to be killed and profited from, the end. If people can form fleets to kill you, you should have to put in the same effort to stay alive as well. Get organized and get good instead of putting all your effort into crying for CCP to save you from your own ineptitude.


Also, "don't put all your eggs in one basket".

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Circo Maximo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2017-02-26 03:42:36 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
This is not Candy Land, this is EVE. If you take on too much risk, you bear the consequences. The OP is just flat out wrong on the basic nature of the game. Don't take on more risk than you can tolerate. That's it. A freighter being suicide ganked generally the player has taken on too much risk.


You obviously dont know that goons sit in jita ganking whatever they can 24 hours a day. They are able to sit in 0.9 and 1.0 system stations with -10.0 security status. When they undock they dont even have to worry about faction police. They jump whereever they want and gank whatever they want without any negating gameplay effects whatsoever. All it takes is a mach bumper on each gate and they can stop any freighter that they desire and hold them as long as they desire. Bumpers do not go suspect and can even target the freighter so that it cant log out for 15min. Its a complete joke.


And yet all of this can be avoided by:

1. Not over stuffing your freighter.
2. Using a scout.
3. Having your scout use webs.

There are options for prudent play but the OP prefers to reward stupidity.

1. So that means i can't take money with me or my smartphone in my jacket when i'm out walking, just because there can be thieves that can just rob me time after times?

Ofc not. You will take those things with you because the police are there to catch those thieves and punish them if they rob me. And if they later are robbing others again, then ofc the police will punish them even harder for comitting the same crimes over again. Or what do you think, they should get a clap on the shoulder being told not to do those nasty things everytime?

2. Yeah, let's just call my friend that has to hold my hand everytime i go to the grocery store so he can look around for some baddies or naughty peoples so i don't gets scared by them.

Not only that, but you don't see a freaking police car in front of a moneytransporter car everytime they are going to deliver money or whatever.

3. You shouldn't have to use an alt to be able to fly a freighter in a normal way in empire. Yes, you can use an alt for some extra benefits that way. But you shouldn't have to use one with the freighter pilot to be able to use the damn things in empire.



Where did you get the idea that you should be able to be invincible in highsec? CCP has never told you this. You should need to be organized to protect yourself in an MMO. There are single player games available if you don't want to play with others.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#131 - 2017-02-26 03:45:01 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Circo Maximo wrote:
Where did you get the idea that you should be able to be invincible in highsec? CCP has never told you this. You should need to be organized to protect yourself in an MMO. There are single player games available if you don't want to play with others.

I have nowhere in my statements said high sec should be invincible. Do you even read what i'm saying bro?

All i have said that the gankers should get harder and harder times against Concord the more they gank each day.

What's bad about that?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#132 - 2017-02-26 03:47:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
NightmareX wrote:
Circo Maximo wrote:
Where did you get the idea that you should be able to be invincible in highsec? CCP has never told you this. You should need to be organized to protect yourself in an MMO. There are single player games available if you don't want to play with others.

I have nowhere in my statements said high sec should be invincible. Do you read what i'm saying bro?

All i have said that the gankers should get harder and harder times against Concord the more they gank each day.

What's bad about that?
If you want ganking to be harder or not as profitable, you pay attention to what you're doing and don't present them with easy or juicy targets.

It's that fecking simple.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#133 - 2017-02-26 03:50:02 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Circo Maximo wrote:
Where did you get the idea that you should be able to be invincible in highsec? CCP has never told you this. You should need to be organized to protect yourself in an MMO. There are single player games available if you don't want to play with others.

I have nowhere in my statements said high sec should be invincible. Do you read what i'm saying bro?

All i have said that the gankers should get harder and harder times against Concord the more they gank each day.

What's bad about that?
If you want ganking to be harder or not as profitable, you pay attention to what you're doing and don't present them with easy or juicy targets.

It's that fecking simple.

Still doesn't makes the idea of getting the Concord to be harder against the gankers the more they gank bad in any ways. There should be some kind of a trade off for doing that more and more.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#134 - 2017-02-26 03:52:49 UTC
NightmareX wrote:

1. So that means i can't take money with me or my smartphone in my jacket when i'm out walking, just because there can be thieves that can just rob me time after times?

Ofc not. You will take those things with you because the police are there to catch those thieves and punish them. And if they later are robbing others again, then ofc the police will punish them even harder for comitting the same crimes over again. Or what do you think, they should get a clap on the shoulder being told not to do those nasty things everytime?


You don't live in New Eden. Different set or norms and laws/rules. So right off you are looking silly. Second, a smart phone and even a couple hundred in cash is not like stuffing half your life's savings into your wallet. Even in RL, if you took half your wealth, stuck in your pocket and went walking down the street most people would consider that imprudent. After all, if you need to move half your wealth from A to B you could just go over to B open an account and write a check against your account in A. You could have A transfer it. You have options for far, far safer modes of moving large amounts of wealth.

NightmareX wrote:
2. Yeah, let's just call my friend that has to hold my hand everytime i go to the grocery store so he can look around for some baddies or naughty peoples so i don't gets scared by them.

Not only that, but you don't see a freaking police car in front of a moneytransporter car everytime they are going to deliver money or whatever.


You are the one wanting hand holding by not just a friend, but by all powerful NPCs. The ironic is so rich here.

NightmareX wrote:
3. You shouldn't have to use an alt to be able to fly a freighter in a normal way in empire. Yes, you can use an alt for some extra benefits that way. But you shouldn't have to use one with the freighter pilot to be able to use the damn things in empire.


Who said alt. Ask a friend. You do have friends in game, right? I've had a friend scout for me. I've scouted for friends.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
commander aze
#135 - 2017-02-26 03:53:16 UTC
https://imgflip.com/i/1kcry4 <--- Had to be said

Also not crazy about making massive changes in code to allow npc stations to point people...

I know the red setting on alphas was a thing a while back and ccp said they didnt anticipate abuse ot this and they would review it at a later time.

Commander Aze For CSM XII

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=506400

Support the Community #Broadcast4Reps
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#136 - 2017-02-26 03:53:36 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Circo Maximo wrote:
Where did you get the idea that you should be able to be invincible in highsec? CCP has never told you this. You should need to be organized to protect yourself in an MMO. There are single player games available if you don't want to play with others.

I have nowhere in my statements said high sec should be invincible. Do you read what i'm saying bro?

All i have said that the gankers should get harder and harder times against Concord the more they gank each day.

What's bad about that?
If you want ganking to be harder or not as profitable, you pay attention to what you're doing and don't present them with easy or juicy targets.

It's that fecking simple.


For some not simple enough.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#137 - 2017-02-26 03:56:07 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Circo Maximo wrote:
Where did you get the idea that you should be able to be invincible in highsec? CCP has never told you this. You should need to be organized to protect yourself in an MMO. There are single player games available if you don't want to play with others.

I have nowhere in my statements said high sec should be invincible. Do you read what i'm saying bro?

All i have said that the gankers should get harder and harder times against Concord the more they gank each day.

What's bad about that?
If you want ganking to be harder or not as profitable, you pay attention to what you're doing and don't present them with easy or juicy targets.

It's that fecking simple.

Still doesn't makes the idea of getting the Concord to be harder against the gankers the more they gank bad in any ways. There should be some kind of a trade off for doing that more and more.


Why? Why shouldn't players be able to punish others for their imprudence?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#138 - 2017-02-26 04:01:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
NightmareX wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
If you want ganking to be harder or not as profitable, you pay attention to what you're doing and don't present them with easy or juicy targets.

It's that fecking simple.

Still doesn't makes the idea of getting the Concord to be harder against the gankers the more they gank bad in any ways. There should be some kind of a trade off for doing that more and more.
Why are you expecting NPC's to make it harder for gankers? You already have the tools to do it yourself.

Gankers will adapt to any changes that happen with regards to Concord response, just as they have in the past. People will still continue to do stupid stuff like put eleventy billion isk in an untanked freighter and AP it through a chokepoint, they will explode and this thread will start all over again.

For example, some of the changes people suggest and the obvious response from affected parties.
Faster response times : Gankers bring more DPS
Longer timers: Gankers switch between gank characters.
Scaling response times on ganking history : CCP's database admin ganks you for making his life hell.

It's a constant cycle of one more nerf will fix ganking, and it never does because ganking isn't the problem, stupidity is.

CCP can't patch stupid.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#139 - 2017-02-26 04:02:21 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Teckos Pech wrote:
You don't live in New Eden. Different set or norms and laws/rules. So right off you are looking silly. Second, a smart phone and even a couple hundred in cash is not like stuffing half your life's savings into your wallet. Even in RL, if you took half your wealth, stuck in your pocket and went walking down the street most people would consider that imprudent. After all, if you need to move half your wealth from A to B you could just go over to B open an account and write a check against your account in A. You could have A transfer it. You have options for far, far safer modes of moving large amounts of wealth.

Who said anything about how much money i'm traveling with?

For all you know i can travel with ALOT of money.

And you can buy rather expensive smartphones out there. Just look at the Vertu's out there.

Teckos Pech wrote:
You are the one wanting hand holding by not just a friend, but by all powerful NPCs. The ironic is so rich here.

No, i want criminals to get a harder time against the Police / Concord the more crimes they do within one day. That's all i want. I'm not against ganking at all if you really think i'am doing that.
Teckos Pech wrote:
Who said alt. Ask a friend. You do have friends in game, right? I've had a friend scout for me. I've scouted for friends.

Still the same. You shouldn't be in need of others to just move ships around as long as you aren't in a war with someone. If they are at war, then it's for another topic and a totally different thing.

Not only that, but scouting for gankers in Destroyers is very hard. Because one second a gate can be clear and tells the Freighter to jump in. But because the freighter is so slow at entering warp, you can basicly sit 2 jumps out with some Destroyers and just head towards the freighter and gank it before it had entered warp. Not only that. Should every Freighter polits just stop doing what they are doing, just because they see a potential bumping Machariel at gates to?

Once a freighter is getting bumped by some Machariel or whatever, the chance of getting out is very low. So some simple bumps is all that is needed to ruins someones days.

So it shouldn't be that easy to gank others times after times.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#140 - 2017-02-26 04:10:50 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
If you want ganking to be harder or not as profitable, you pay attention to what you're doing and don't present them with easy or juicy targets.

It's that fecking simple.

Still doesn't makes the idea of getting the Concord to be harder against the gankers the more they gank bad in any ways. There should be some kind of a trade off for doing that more and more.
Why are you expecting NPC's to make it harder for gankers? You already have the tools to do it yourself.

Gankers will adapt to any changes that happen with regards to Concord response, just as they have in the past. People will still continue to do stupid stuff like put eleventy billion isk in an untanked freighter and AP it through a chokepoint, they will explode and this thread will start all over again.

For example, some of the changes people suggest and the gankers obvious response
Faster response times : Bring more DPS
Longer timers: They switch between gank characters.
Scaling response times on ganking history : CCP's database admin ganks you for making his life hell.

It's a constant cycle of one more nerf will fix ganking, and it never does because ganking isn't the problem, stupidity is.

CCP can't patch stupid.

Again. Do you think it's fine that you get the exact same treatment from the police / Concord everytime you do a crime over and over again over being punished harder and harder the more crimes you do (which is logical by human nature by the way)?

And why do you think it's fair that i get the same treatment from Concord for suiciding on a Rifter as you get for suiciding a massive freighter?

If i steal a small pack og bubblegum and if i steal a car, do you think i will get punished the same for stealing the pack of bubblegum as i get for stealing the car?

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama