Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You expect us accept this statement as the reason the graph in question is invalid without dispute?

The 6 month rolling average plot shows an overall decline in Concord kills over a 4 year period, that Concord currently kill less people than they did 4 years ago is indisputable.

The raw data plot shows periodic spikes in activity that is reflected in the 6 month average; the most likely cause of these spikes are events such as Burn Jita, a look at the dates of past events will probably confirm this to be the case.

As you say what isn't shown is the number of active players, you then made the claim that a decline in the number of active players is the most likely reason for the decline in the numbers of people Concord kill. We've yet to see you provide anything that supports this.

You typed it, where's your proof that this is the case? Or are we expected to swallow it as gospel and do nothing to stop you trying to get CCP to essentially remove an entire playstyle via mechanics?

You, and your cohorts, have dismissed pretty much everything that everybody else has posted. You've provided no actual evidence or analysis, beyond pointing at a killboard and opinion, that there is actually a problem that needs to be solved.

Saying the same things over and over again without presenting any actual supporting material, hoping that we'll accept it as the case is not evidence, it's prayer.

If you want to be taken seriously, you'll need to do better than that.

As entertaining as it is to watch 2 people flounder around in a shallow pool of their own circular thinking, what this thread needs is Tippia, this kind of thing was their bread and butter.

Shall we count the fallacies in this thread?

This is not a mechanical problem, this is a player generated problem. CCP cannot fix this, only the players can. There will always be a portion of the player base who get a little too greedy and attempt to overfill their ships in the hopes of getting bigger rewards for less work. The appropriate response to finding yourself on the wrong side of a profitable gank is to figure out how to make yourself less profitable to gank. If more players did this, HiSec ganking would become much, much more difficult.


Yes, I get it. You still haven't adequately stated why these changes would benefit the game.


It's not. It's extremely difficult to kill someone that has taken the appropriate steps to protect their cargo. Yes, even cargoes that require a freighter are difficult to find, track and take out when the job is done properly.


A competent freighter pilot enjoys somewhere in the region of 99.9% success rate, according to the stats released by Red Frog. A 0.1% chance of failing a contract is hardly guaranteed instant death when you undock.

Have you considered the possibility that other freighter pilots are simply better at the profession than you?

CCP have all the abilities to fix this. Because once the criminals starts to get a harder life in high sec the more criminal acts they do with this system, the more you have to work for continuing your ganks in an easy way.

And i haven't been talking about making a gank more or lesser profitable. I have only been talking about making it harder and harder to do your ganks the more you do it in high sec. You will still be able to gank a 10-20 bill isk freighter as easily AND as many of those as today as long as you takes more consequences / penalties for your criminal acts and as long as you takes cares of your sec status.

With this, the criminals has to face the treatment as a criminal and the ones who are ganked can feel that the gankers gets a deserved penalty. This benefits EVE and it makes you think before you do your crimes.


Look over. But you haven't explained why it wouldn't benefit the game except for crying that it will make you work harder for your ganks the more you do it. In fact, it should be like that. Because, the more i steal from a grocery store, the bigger change it is that i will be locked behind a bar and not be able to freely go free around in the city. The police should work as a police with a track history over your crimes.


It is, because all you are saying is that a freighter deserves to be ganked if it carries stuffs worth a certain amount of isk. And carrying alot of stuffs worth alot of isk is their whole point. So you are denying freighter pilots to actually be a freighter pilot just because you have the easy life of ganking the living crap out of them just because they are doing their job of carrying alot of things that might be worth alot of isk.

Their cargo value shouldn't determinte if they should go into an instant death trap or not. It should rather be that you will see their value of the cargo and then see if the coming penalty that you will get for ganking him will be worth the gank. This way, you might see that the gank might not be worth it if you can't enter high sec in a ship bigger than a shuttle or a pod for one day for doing that as an example. It should be way more than just the value that determine if the gank is worth it.


With my idea, no lesser freighters will be ganked if the criminals has to work harder for each ganks / criminal acts they do. The only thing that will change is that the criminals gets treated like criminals that will get a harder life the more crimes they do, like criminals have been treated in humans history.

Freighters are used to transport alot of things that might be worth alot. Just because they are using the ships for their intended usage, it's should be ok to let them get into a death trap just because of that?

And the gankers isn't the ones who decides on how much vaule the freighters are allowed to transport as it's the freighter pilots job of deciding that. Freighters are the biggest transport ships in EVE that is meant to carry alot of items and stuffs that will be worth alot when you considers on how much they can transport. Again, the value of the cargo shouldn't be the ONLY factor a ganker has to take into consideration when you are ganking something. There should be more penalties and consequences than just losing a worthless peice of ship that costs nothing to replace and only have to wait 15 mins until you can do the same gank over and over forever.

There should be a system in EVE that let's every ganker / criminals in EVE really think over the upcoming penalties and consequences they will face on top of the value on the freighters cargo before they just decides to gank away.


Again, my idea doesn't reduces opportunities for conflicts when you just have to work harder for your crimes to be able to gank as easily as you do now today. The more ganks you do, the more you have to work for it. The lesser ganks you do, the easier you will have it in empire.

This is a very simple and effective system that should be in EVE, like today.

Please explain to me why you think Kusion and others have the right in sit in Highsec day in and day out destroying and taking mountains of isk without ever having grind any other part of the game like everyone else. KUSION alone has 10 trillion isk destroyed vs 31 billion which is just laughable. I'm seriously surprised that these people have been able get get away with it for so long. I don't know if CCP let's it go on because it's and it's drain or what but it's unethical game design at best. The game has this fake security status that doesn't to anything to keep anyone from getting an endless free meal in high-sec.

They seems to not be able to do their job as their value determines their fate, because the gankers isn't getting hard enough penalties or consequences that makes the gankers think harder before they actually do a crime or a gank. Again, there should be more than just the value of the cargo that should be applied before a ganker is ganking a freighter or whatever.


You know that Jita is the busiest system in EVE where alot of peoples are every day independent of Burn Jita event?

And like i have said a million times already, this has nothing to do with how many freighters that dies or survives. It has ONLY to do with having a much better criminal system in EVE that makes the criminal really think over the penalties and consequences before they looks at only the value of the cargo before they just ganks away.

Having a system that determines if a gank is worth it where the value of the cargo is the only deciding factor is not a good system for criminals.



Ofc you don't see a problem here as you are a ganker and loves the easy life of ganking and the easy life of gaining massive profits for no risks by abusing an outdated system that doesn't gives the criminals good enough penalties or consequences for their actions.


I have explained this several times. Go read them over asking to get everything handed to you with a spoon everytime.

Like I said, the problem is greed. CCP can't stop players from being lazy or greedy. As long as we give in to those temptations and try to push our luck, gankers will be there to capitalise on our mistakes.


"Because once the criminals starts to get a harder life in high sec the more criminal acts they do with this system, the more you have to work for continuing your ganks in an easy way."

Literally the sentence above. More work for ganking means less profit/hr spent ganking.


How does reducing opportunities for player interaction help a Massively Multiplayer Online game, exactly?


I don't gank. Maybe spend more time putting together a valid argument and less time attempting to belittle those that disagree with you.


I'm well aware of your opinion on the matter. Stating it over and over does very little to help see why you think the game should be changed like that.

"It is, because all you are saying is that a freighter deserves to be ganked if it carries stuffs worth a certain amount of isk."
Not quite. I'm saying a pilot that puts no effort into defending what is his deserves to lose it. If you can find a way to safely transport 10bil ISK in a freighter then I say power to you and congratulations on the vast swathes of wealth you would deservedly acquire.

"And carrying alot of stuffs worth alot of isk is their whole point."
I've said this twice in this thread already, maybe third time lucky: Freighters excel at carrying vast quantities of low value goods, not high value goods.

"[iTheir cargo value shouldn't determinte if they should go into an instant death trap or not."
Wait, I thought we [i]weren't talking about the profitability of freighter ganking. So, we are now, right?

No one cares what the targets are doing. People will always overload and ganking will always be in the game. Please explain why you think its ok for criminals to overstay their welcome in Highsec without having to grind any other mechanics of the game so that they can continue ganking in highsec. EVE is not meant to be easy, if you cant keep your security status in check, you should not be able to treat ganking as your source of income indefinitely.

So greed should determine if a freighter pilot should be able to do their job or not?

Ofc, they might not be able to do their job as they might get ganked on their way like it is now. But that shouldn't prevent criminals from gaining harsher penatlies and consequences the more crimes they do in high sec.


Yes, no less ganks will happen as long as you gets your finger out of your ass and works for your criminal actions over just warping back to a station and refit the same ship again and waits 15 mins which isn't what i call for much work for what you gain.


And how is it fair that you don't have to work for your criminal actions at all other than just warping back to station and refit a ship and wait 15 mins when everyone else has to work their asses off to do their job?


That's something you say to justify your lame arguments more. Everyone knows that you are a ganker with one or more characters.


I'm stating it over and over as peoples doesn't seems to figure out that my idea has nothing to do with the value of anything, ability to continue to to the ganks and so on. It has ONLY to do with facing harder penalties and consequences the more crimes you do that makes the criminals work a bit more for their crimes. And that is fair, because a criminal is a criminal after all and not a normal citizen of high sec.