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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Jevatoxa
Amandla Legion
#61 - 2017-02-25 23:54:18 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Whoever posted this picture of Veers on his Facebook group thread owes me coffee.

Well played.


Twas I :)

Coffe incoming!
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#62 - 2017-02-25 23:55:00 UTC
Jevatoxa wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station....blah, blah, blah, whine.


No. Go away.



You can tell just by your picture that you are a ganker.... :)
Jevatoxa
Amandla Legion
#63 - 2017-02-25 23:57:06 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jevatoxa wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station....blah, blah, blah, whine.


No. Go away.



You can tell just by your picture that you are a ganker.... :)


Um no, I actually spend 90% of my life in nullsec, and the other 10% hunting pirates:

https://zkillboard.com/character/2012033164/
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#64 - 2017-02-25 23:57:09 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
I want to be clear on this "blame the victim" bullshit that some try to trot out as some sort of justification against ganking.

In the real world, for example, if you are a woman you have the right to walk around without being raped. There are no additional qualifiers about time of day, style of clothing, etc. Those are the social norms and how the laws work. So, when somebody says, "Oh she was raped because she dressed like a ****." That is considered blaming the victim. That is wrong because our social norms and laws say that is not valid reason to **** a woman (and in fact there is no valid reason for raping a woman, or a man for that matter).

Now. In game, is there a social norm or law or the like that says: You can turn your ship into a ginormous loot pinata and fly around in HS space unmolested?

No.

Let me repeat that. No.

You have no expectation of being able to fly around unmolested at all. If I decide to accept the consequences of shooting you in HS, I can shoot you in HS.

That is the social norm and "law" of this game.

When you go further and turn your ship into a loot pinata you are literally asking for trouble. You are taking on considerable risk. And when that downside risk materializes and you lose your stuff. Well...tough ****.

So knock of this infantile SJW bullshit of "you're blaming the victim." Grow up and learn the culture of the game you are playing.



Sorry man.... stop ganking empty hulls for the lul's and you may have a point.
Firnen Bakru
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#65 - 2017-02-25 23:58:42 UTC
Leyanora Varkain wrote:
Hm wow where to start. So first of all: if you get ganked in a freighter first of all you as a freighter pilot did something wrong like:
(*) footnote here: it is literaly INSANE there are still so many freighter kills while an event like Burn Jita is happening. I still dont get why a person with a decent amount of common sense would go like "ok there have been a couple of freighter kills in the area around Jita - but I really need to haul over some tritanium now... and while I am on it I could easily get some plex over aswell".


look at this guy, losing three fenrirs courier hauling out of jita: https://zkillboard.com/character/95786327/
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#66 - 2017-02-25 23:58:52 UTC
Jevatoxa wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jevatoxa wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station....blah, blah, blah, whine.


No. Go away.



You can tell just by your picture that you are a ganker.... :)


Um no, I actually spend 90% of my life in nullsec, and the other 10% hunting pirates:

https://zkillboard.com/character/2012033164/


Then you have no experience with the daily happenings of highsec...
Jevatoxa
Amandla Legion
#67 - 2017-02-26 00:00:10 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jevatoxa wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jevatoxa wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Given that, CONCORD and the security status are completely useless against repeat offenders (mainly -5.0 and lower) who fleet gank every 15min - 24hours a day. Yeah, im talking about those staged up in Jita V - Moon 17 station....blah, blah, blah, whine.


No. Go away.



You can tell just by your picture that you are a ganker.... :)


Um no, I actually spend 90% of my life in nullsec, and the other 10% hunting pirates:

https://zkillboard.com/character/2012033164/


Then you have no experience with the daily happenings of highsec...


If only you knew!
Sintei Ruhl
Raubritter und Wegelagerer GmbH
#68 - 2017-02-26 00:03:13 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
I want to be clear on this "blame the victim" bullshit that some try to trot out as some sort of justification against ganking.

In the real world, for example, if you are a woman you have the right to walk around without being raped. There are no additional qualifiers about time of day, style of clothing, etc. Those are the social norms and how the laws work. So, when somebody says, "Oh she was raped because she dressed like a ****." That is considered blaming the victim. That is wrong because our social norms and laws say that is not valid reason to **** a woman (and in fact there is no valid reason for raping a woman, or a man for that matter).

Now. In game, is there a social norm or law or the like that says: You can turn your ship into a ginormous loot pinata and fly around in HS space unmolested?

No.

Let me repeat that. No.

You have no expectation of being able to fly around unmolested at all. If I decide to accept the consequences of shooting you in HS, I can shoot you in HS.

That is the social norm and "law" of this game.

When you go further and turn your ship into a loot pinata you are literally asking for trouble. You are taking on considerable risk. And when that downside risk materializes and you lose your stuff. Well...tough ****.

So knock of this infantile SJW bullshit of "you're blaming the victim." Grow up and learn the culture of the game you are playing.



Sorry man.... stop ganking empty hulls for the lul's and you may have a point.



As soon as you undock you consent to PVP. And that is not my personal opinion, that is CCPs stand on it....
We understand you lost an empty faction fit freighter but please suck it up and take it like a real capsuleer...
Nomis Alexander
Haldskel Corporation
#69 - 2017-02-26 00:09:28 UTC
OP is salty because of the Providence he lost in Josameto to Goons.

Sending a nice, warm cup of HTFU your way.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#70 - 2017-02-26 00:21:53 UTC
Sintei Ruhl wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
I want to be clear on this "blame the victim" bullshit that some try to trot out as some sort of justification against ganking.

In the real world, for example, if you are a woman you have the right to walk around without being raped. There are no additional qualifiers about time of day, style of clothing, etc. Those are the social norms and how the laws work. So, when somebody says, "Oh she was raped because she dressed like a ****." That is considered blaming the victim. That is wrong because our social norms and laws say that is not valid reason to **** a woman (and in fact there is no valid reason for raping a woman, or a man for that matter).

Now. In game, is there a social norm or law or the like that says: You can turn your ship into a ginormous loot pinata and fly around in HS space unmolested?

No.

Let me repeat that. No.

You have no expectation of being able to fly around unmolested at all. If I decide to accept the consequences of shooting you in HS, I can shoot you in HS.

That is the social norm and "law" of this game.

When you go further and turn your ship into a loot pinata you are literally asking for trouble. You are taking on considerable risk. And when that downside risk materializes and you lose your stuff. Well...tough ****.

So knock of this infantile SJW bullshit of "you're blaming the victim." Grow up and learn the culture of the game you are playing.



Sorry man.... stop ganking empty hulls for the lul's and you may have a point.



As soon as you undock you consent to PVP. And that is not my personal opinion, that is CCPs stand on it....
We understand you lost an empty faction fit freighter but please suck it up and take it like a real capsuleer...

Get over it and talk about the OP at hand.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#71 - 2017-02-26 00:23:18 UTC
Nomis Alexander wrote:
OP is salty because of the Providence he lost in Josameto to Goons.

Sending a nice, warm cup of HTFU your way.


Yeah, killmail is almost two months old and I just decided to get salty... Focus on the OP
Sintei Ruhl
Raubritter und Wegelagerer GmbH
#72 - 2017-02-26 00:23:46 UTC
I did and as everyone else here expressed my dislike of your "suggestion"....
I think you are the one who needs to get over something....

good night
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#73 - 2017-02-26 00:29:44 UTC
Circo Maximo wrote:
wrote:

Second:
To prevent alpha clones from continually being rolled and used as disposable gank toons, I propose that only omega pilots be allowed to set their safety to red, while alpha clones can only set their safety to yellow at most.

I feel that this will balance out the security and safety of highsec without damaging the ability to gank. This change will require gank fleets to put in an effort if they want to treat highsec like a free meal.

This would also bring more meaning to tags, where they can be used to repair status so that mission running is not the only option. Gankers would have to weigh tags cost against target profit to be effective.

CCPlease implement this or something similar so that repeat gank fleets can not freely stage and travel in highsec. If career criminals want to take advantage of major markets like jita and amarr, then they can use an alt or carrier service to get goods. No need for career criminals to even be allowed in highsec. That is what a security status is meant to control.


Which bee stung you?


I pull the stingers off bees.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#74 - 2017-02-26 00:30:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
The only 'balance' concord needs atm is changing from Concord ships spawning to your ship just self destructing (on exactly the same timer to when concord would blow it up currently).
This would allow smart bombing to actually be used without causing crippling lag and node crashes to gank.
And stop people getting mad at 300 concord on ships ignoring pirate NPC's.

I also believe that Concord timers should be dramatically increased (to a couple of minutes so it's clear what I mean by increase) & industrial ships receive slots & fittings comparable to combat ships so they can actually run real tanks & some weapons. (Yes, there are a couple that already have decent tanks, STFU about those ones and look at all the others that don't). But that is a change in philosophy for Concord, though I believe longer gank timers would increase interaction and make things less predictable, it is not what the current concord is about and so isn't a 'balance' thing on the current iteration.
Jevatoxa
Amandla Legion
#75 - 2017-02-26 00:36:38 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Nomis Alexander wrote:
OP is salty because of the Providence he lost in Josameto to Goons.

Sending a nice, warm cup of HTFU your way.


Yeah, killmail is almost two months old and I just decided to get salty... Focus on the OP


Surely, you should be over your loss by now then? But clearly not, hence your tears on here over a month later!
Nikki Kaiser
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2017-02-26 00:37:05 UTC
Am I the only one that finds it amusing that OP is complaining about goons while sporting the Imperium portrait backdrop?
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#77 - 2017-02-26 00:44:24 UTC
Nikki Kaiser wrote:
Am I the only one that finds it amusing that OP is complaining about goons while sporting the Imperium portrait backdrop?


Yes... you are the only one it seems.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#78 - 2017-02-26 00:48:25 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Personally, i think there should be a system that makes it harder to cope with Concord in high sec the more you gank and the more your sec status drops. Sure, the first gank should be like it is now with the 15 minutes Concord timer and the normal reaction time for Concord.

But the next / 2nd gank you do in high sec will increase that timer to 1 hour where Concord will be even faster on getting you because Concord see you as a more threat over what you was the first time.

If you do the 3rd gank. That timer will go up to like 6 hours where Concord pretty much will try to kill you really fast (it will be fast but still possible to fly from a station to a gate in a fast frig and jump out right away before you get killed by Concord) in high sec if they see you if you are in high sec within that 6 hours timer, as Concord now will see you as the highest threat.

If you do the 4th gank within a day, you will then be completely locked out from high sec for 24 hours. And after that 24 hour timer is gone, you will then be back to normal where you can start another gank and get the 15 minute Concord timer and so on as explained over.

Within that 24 hours time, you will have the oppoturnity to fix your sec status by carebearing it up or even buying sec status tags (with an alt or something) so Concord wont whoop your ass because of your pretty bad security status. Yes, even though you have waited out your timers, Concord will still react faster on you the lower your sec status is the next time you commit a gank. So that means that you have to work harder and harder with your sec status the more you gank to be able to get back into high sec without being Condorded right away or even before you manages to do your next gank.

Yes, this is all about risk vs reward. If you want a good reward, you have to risk alot for it. But as the system is now, the only thing you have to risk is 15 minutes of waiting for the Concord timer to run out. And that's pretty dumb in my opinion as it should be way more risk involved in ganking more and more players in high sec.

TLDR: Make Concord way harsher against gankers the more they gank. It's a simple system that works.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Trajan Unknown
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2017-02-26 00:52:26 UTC
I am, by no means an expert on hi-sec "career gankers" or how the fu*ck they are called but to me this whole thing sounds stupid.

If people undock with **** that is worth ganking -> they might end up on the receiving end of the gankers.
If people know how to haul their **** they wont.

Our logi guys hauling **** on a daily basis and there are no losses. I wonder how the **** is getting moved from low-sec/null-sec to Jita? :D
My own hauler girl is shipping a lot of thing from and to Jita and I think I lost one (1) DST in three years. At the end of the day hi-sec ganking seems to me like all the other things people make money with. You take from the stupid, the inexperienced, the lazy ones. But the people who have enough brainjuice to learn from their mistakes won´t fuel the ganking fleets. So why should CCP change anything? Learn from your mistakes and don´t stay stupid and you won´t lose your freighter. Additionally, as long as I see freighters autopiloting through hi-sec there are not enough gankers around. :D
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#80 - 2017-02-26 00:53:21 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Personally, i think there should be a system that makes it harder to cope with Concord in high sec the more you gank and the more your sec status drops. Sure, the first gank should be like it is now with the 15 minutes Concord timer and the normal reaction time for Concord.

But the next / 2nd gank you do in high sec will increase that timer to 1 hour where Concord will be even faster on getting you because Concord see you as a more threat over what you was the first time.

If you do the 3rd gank. That timer will go up to like 6 hours where Concord pretty much will try to kill you really fast (it will be fast but still possible to fly from a station to a gate in a fast frig and jump out right away before you get killed by Concord) in high sec if they see you if you are in high sec within that 6 hours timer, as Concord now will see you as the highest threat.

If you do the 4th gank within a day, you will then be completely locked out from high sec for 24 hours. Within that time, you will have the oppoturnity to fix your sec status by carebearing it up or even buying sec status tags (with an alt or something) so Concord wont whoop your ass because of your pretty bad security status.

Yes, this is all about risk vs reward. If you want a good reward, you have to risk alot of things. But as the system is now, the only thing you have to risk is 15 minutes of waiting for the Concord timer to run out. And that's pretty dumb in my opinion as it should be way more risk involved in ganking more and more players in high sec.

TLDR: Make Concord way harsher against gankers the more they gank. It's a simple system that works.


Why?