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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#501 - 2017-02-27 01:19:07 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Wander Prian wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Not true. What if one commits their criminal acts in LS? You want to effectively lock them out too. And maybe you should re-read the OP.

If their crimes have been done in low sec, things should be like it is now. Nothing is needed to be changed there. We are however talking about the crimes you have done in HIGH SEC.

Then it will be something else.


Last I checked, it was about criminals in general. Nowhere does it state it only applies to crimes commited in highsec. That would basically make 2 different kinds of criminals, while both would have the same standing. Which would mean a special-case coding, which is terribly crude and CCP doesn't like doing that, meaning not gonna happen (This is just a "what if" since I've yet to see zero proof of this "issue")


Crimes are crimes if the system you are in says they are crimes. Although pirating in lowsec is a popular thing to do, the game wants to discourage your from podding in lowsec and attacking people unless you have reason to on gates and stations.


The game also discourages you from shooting another in highsec, unless you are at war or they have a suspect/criminal timer or a low enough sec-status. The players also discourage hauling too expensive amounts of loot in a single ship by suicide-ganking ships, yet for some reason, the haulers just keep packing it all in to one ship time and again...

Wormholer for life.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#502 - 2017-02-27 01:20:04 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:


Sure, for the average pilot it sounds like enough, but for a career ganker, those things mean nothing to them. None of that stuff bothers their agenda one bit.


It was requests like yours that gave us career gankers.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#503 - 2017-02-27 01:20:43 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
If the freighter pilot is actually playing the game being hunted can be as much fun as being the hunter.

Denying gankers the opportunity for fun at your expense by virtue of the choices you make is fun.




Yeah, spot me like 10 bil then so that I can enjoy some content.
Go find your own content, I'm certainly not paying for it.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Lei YingLu
Designated Drivers
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#504 - 2017-02-27 01:21:30 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Lei YingLu wrote:
There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to.

Ehh ok?

You can still fly around in high sec in a Destroyer with a -10 sec status. All you have to make sure is that no one tackles you before you enters warp. But that's relatively easy to avoid.

The fact is that if you are categotized as an outlaw (-5 or lower), you shouldn't be able to be sitting in a ship (except for a Shuttle) while being in high sec. Yes, you have to use an alt or other friends to be able to get your newly bought ships out of Jita and high sec in the same way as freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or friends all the time according to you to be able to do their business. So don't you think it would be fair that way towards the gankers to that they will need alts or others to be able to keep doing their crimes with new ships and so on?


Again, there are consequences. But it is not absolute. You get a DUI you lose the ability to drive a car, not to ride a bike.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#505 - 2017-02-27 01:22:44 UTC
Takes time Nightmare

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#506 - 2017-02-27 01:24:02 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
No one is saying anyone should be locked out of high sec. We are only saying the criminals should get penalized harder the more crimes they do in high sec.

Is that so hard to understand?


Not true. What if one commits their criminal acts in LS? You want to effectively lock them out too. And maybe you should re-read the OP.

Quote:
This second phase of aggression would consist of stations and jump gates instantly webbing and warp-disrupting while CONCORD moves in. This prevents serial criminals from freely moving through highsec and also prevent gank fleets from staging in highsec systems unless they control their security status correctly.


That would effectively lock them out.


no it would not. It would require them to lower their security status between ganks so that they stayed within the given systems phase one limit. This means spending some of the gank isk on repair tags and mabye even some mission running / rat killing. Obviously tags would be the easiest way. The economic tag availability would control the gank abilities and keep it honest.


Then they aren't criminals then are they. So you would effectively lock out criminals...until they are no long criminals.

Jesus, you are amazingly dishonest.


no... you are ignorant arent your. They would still be criminal, just not phase two criminals that are shot on sight because they dont care to manage their security status.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#507 - 2017-02-27 01:24:26 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Lei YingLu wrote:
Again, there are consequences. But it is not absolute. You get a DUI you lose the ability to drive a car, not to ride a bike.

Those consequences are way to low. That's why EVE needs a new system where the criminals gets punished harder the more crimes they do.

It's the same if i drive like an idiot. The worser i have commited bad driving, the harsher penalty i get. And the more i do it, the longer time i will lose my driving licence to. And the longer time i probably have to go to jail aswell.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#508 - 2017-02-27 01:25:04 UTC
Lei YingLu wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Lei YingLu wrote:
There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to.

Ehh ok?

You can still fly around in high sec in a Destroyer with a -10 sec status. All you have to make sure is that no one tackles you before you enters warp. But that's relatively easy to avoid.

The fact is that if you are categotized as an outlaw (-5 or lower), you shouldn't be able to be sitting in a ship (except for a Shuttle) while being in high sec. Yes, you have to use an alt or other friends to be able to get your newly bought ships out of Jita and high sec in the same way as freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or friends all the time according to you to be able to do their business. So don't you think it would be fair that way towards the gankers to that they will need alts or others to be able to keep doing their crimes with new ships and so on?


Again, there are consequences. But it is not absolute. You get a DUI you lose the ability to drive a car, not to ride a bike.


which is equivalent to an instant warping pod or shuttle, not a gank ship.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#509 - 2017-02-27 01:27:11 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:


no... you are ignorant arent your. They would still be criminal, just not phase two criminals that are shot on sight because they dont care to manage their security status.


Whatever, semantic bullshit aside, you want to lock certain players out of areas of the game. That is decidedly antithetical to the nature of the game.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#510 - 2017-02-27 01:27:50 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
If the freighter pilot is actually playing the game being hunted can be as much fun as being the hunter.

Denying gankers the opportunity for fun at your expense by virtue of the choices you make is fun.




Yeah, spot me like 10 bil then so that I can enjoy some content.
Go find your own content, I'm certainly not paying for it.


then why should freighter pilots be required to take all the risk knowing that gankers are not controlled in highsec. If you require gankers to repair their security status, they are only going to pick the highest of value targets. This eliminates the idiot freighter pilots and makes it a little more reasonable for the responsible freighter pilots.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#511 - 2017-02-27 01:27:57 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Lei YingLu wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Lei YingLu wrote:
There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to.

Ehh ok?

You can still fly around in high sec in a Destroyer with a -10 sec status. All you have to make sure is that no one tackles you before you enters warp. But that's relatively easy to avoid.

The fact is that if you are categotized as an outlaw (-5 or lower), you shouldn't be able to be sitting in a ship (except for a Shuttle) while being in high sec. Yes, you have to use an alt or other friends to be able to get your newly bought ships out of Jita and high sec in the same way as freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or friends all the time according to you to be able to do their business. So don't you think it would be fair that way towards the gankers to that they will need alts or others to be able to keep doing their crimes with new ships and so on?


Again, there are consequences. But it is not absolute. You get a DUI you lose the ability to drive a car, not to ride a bike.


which is equivalent to an instant warping pod or shuttle, not a gank ship.


Which means you want to reduce the amount of ganking. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#512 - 2017-02-27 01:28:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
If the freighter pilot is actually playing the game being hunted can be as much fun as being the hunter.

Denying gankers the opportunity for fun at your expense by virtue of the choices you make is fun.




Yeah, spot me like 10 bil then so that I can enjoy some content.
Go find your own content, I'm certainly not paying for it.


then why should freighter pilots be required to take all the risk knowing that gankers are not controlled in highsec. If you require gankers to repair their security status, they are only going to pick the highest of value targets. This eliminates the idiot freighter pilots and makes it a little more reasonable for the responsible freighter pilots.


They are taking the risk...because they are taking the risk. If they stopped putting 8 billion or 3 billion in their cargo holds they'd reduce the risk.

FFS. You keep saying you know this, then you post like a dolt with the above.

And again, you want to reduce the rate of ganking. As we have been saying all along.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#513 - 2017-02-27 01:29:58 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


no... you are ignorant arent your. They would still be criminal, just not phase two criminals that are shot on sight because they dont care to manage their security status.


Whatever, semantic bullshit aside, you want to lock certain players out of areas of the game. That is decidedly antithetical to the nature of the game.


I give up on you. Im just going to refer your to the OP.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde High Sec Division
#514 - 2017-02-27 01:30:23 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Teckos Pech wrote:
Which means you want to reduce the amount of ganking. Roll

No, he want to make it harder to keep ganking the more you do it. It's totally different from preventing ganking or reducing it. All that is needed are more clever and smarter pilots that needs to work a bit harder to be able to keep ganking.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#515 - 2017-02-27 01:32:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
If the freighter pilot is actually playing the game being hunted can be as much fun as being the hunter.

Denying gankers the opportunity for fun at your expense by virtue of the choices you make is fun.




Yeah, spot me like 10 bil then so that I can enjoy some content.
Go find your own content, I'm certainly not paying for it.


then why should freighter pilots be required to take all the risk knowing that gankers are not controlled in highsec. If you require gankers to repair their security status, they are only going to pick the highest of value targets. This eliminates the idiot freighter pilots and makes it a little more reasonable for the responsible freighter pilots.


They are taking the risk...because they are taking the risk. If they stopped putting 8 billion or 3 billion in their cargo holds they'd reduce the risk.

FFS. You keep saying you know this, then you post like a dolt with the above.

And again, you want to reduce the rate of ganking. As we have been saying all along.


try for one second to get off your high horse and discuss the security system any why -10.0 criminal should be allowed in a 1.0 security system with anything more than a pod or shuttle. The OP says lower your criminal status or no bringing in any ships that doesnt warp instantly (ie gank ships). You can fly around in highsec in a pod or shuttle all you want with a -10.0 status. No one is getting locked out of anything.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#516 - 2017-02-27 01:33:06 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


no... you are ignorant arent your. They would still be criminal, just not phase two criminals that are shot on sight because they dont care to manage their security status.


Whatever, semantic bullshit aside, you want to lock certain players out of areas of the game. That is decidedly antithetical to the nature of the game.


I give up on you. Im just going to refer your to the OP.


I did, and you want "phase 2" sec status players scrammed and webbed by gates while the FacPo move in.

Also, being webbed and scrammed, presumably even in a pod, because IIRC, your OP says nothing about pods or even shuttles being exempt. If they are scrammed and webbed other players can shoot them too.

They are effectively locked out. Once they jump into HS space they sit there on the gate waiting to die.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Lei YingLu
Designated Drivers
Domain Research and Mining Inst.
#517 - 2017-02-27 01:34:03 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Lei YingLu wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Lei YingLu wrote:
There is more penalty, the lower my sec status goes, the less area's that I can go with out being hunted by Faction Police and eventually being able to be freely attacked anywhere in the game by everyone. This is all in addition to the kill rights that people receive and have every opportunity for a period of 30 days to hunt my ass down and kill me. The more people I kill the more of those I have as well. My point is and was in the quote portion earlier is that there are set consequences just like there is in real life that you keep trying to compare this to.

Ehh ok?

You can still fly around in high sec in a Destroyer with a -10 sec status. All you have to make sure is that no one tackles you before you enters warp. But that's relatively easy to avoid.

The fact is that if you are categotized as an outlaw (-5 or lower), you shouldn't be able to be sitting in a ship (except for a Shuttle) while being in high sec. Yes, you have to use an alt or other friends to be able to get your newly bought ships out of Jita and high sec in the same way as freighter pilots have to use a bunch of alt or friends all the time according to you to be able to do their business. So don't you think it would be fair that way towards the gankers to that they will need alts or others to be able to keep doing their crimes with new ships and so on?


Again, there are consequences. But it is not absolute. You get a DUI you lose the ability to drive a car, not to ride a bike.


which is equivalent to an instant warping pod or shuttle, not a gank ship.


Yes, but a tornado is also a gank ship. But one of the things I personally like about Eve is the people evolve to what the game makers give them. Being a ganker (95% solo) I like AG. It makes things alot more interesting and fun. One of my favorite things to do is to initiate the gank knowing AG is there just to see if they can stop me. I like the fact that you can use destroyers still with a -10 because that gives the ganker a little bit of room in a world where everyone can stop you and all it would take is one person, yet what do most people do? Stand by and watch.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#518 - 2017-02-27 01:34:24 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:


try for one second to get off your high horse and discuss the security system any why -10.0 criminal should be allowed in a 1.0 security system with anything more than a pod or shuttle. The OP says lower your criminal status or no bringing in any ships that doesnt warp instantly (ie gank ships).


Dude, can you grow up? No really? Become an adult as opposed to a man-child.

You keep bringing up risk vs. reward. Then you get all whiny and petulant when others respond. If you don't like the response...don't bring it up.

Brat.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#519 - 2017-02-27 01:34:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
NightmareX wrote:
All that is needed are more clever and smarter pilots that needs to work a bit harder to be able to keep ganking.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

All that is needed for gankers to have to work harder is for freighter pilots to stop being morons and start to fly like they're clever and smart people.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#520 - 2017-02-27 01:37:00 UTC
Lei YingLu wrote:


Yes, but a tornado is also a gank ship. But one of the things I personally like about Eve is the people evolve to what the game makers give them. Being a ganker (95% solo) I like AG. It makes things alot more interesting and fun. One of my favorite things to do is to initiate the gank knowing AG is there just to see if they can stop me. I like the fact that you can use destroyers still with a -10 because that gives the ganker a little bit of room in a world where everyone can stop you and all it would take is one person, yet what do most people do? Stand by and watch.


Not empty quoting.

This basically gives other the opportunity for content. But most HS players are too self-centered to even realize it. Most freighter pilots are so insular they wouldn't know someone was trying to help even if they have been bumped for an hour.

Erich has chosen the least appreciative players to champion.

Erich...they pretty much don't like you at all. Because they don't like most other players.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online