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High Sec Ganking - CONCORD Balance request

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Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#241 - 2017-02-26 20:16:33 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


Right... If players are able to bypass the security status part of the game somehow, then it needs to be fixed.


They aren't bypassing it. It is there to let them move around HS, but in a limited fashion.


-10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place. They have proven that they cant be trusted.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#242 - 2017-02-26 20:18:35 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Err...but facpo catch you if you're slow. They can also be tanked and killed iirc.


They dont operate correctly, which makes the security status feature broken. If you can ignore them without care, there is something wrong. Your manipulating a particular mechanic of the game to get around the consequences of security status.


How do they not operate correctly? they will kill you if they catch you.

I am -8.4. I am not a ganker. Explain why you think I should not be able to cross highsec.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#243 - 2017-02-26 20:20:16 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
-10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place
Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty.

Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status?





In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#244 - 2017-02-26 20:21:08 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:


Right... If players are able to bypass the security status part of the game somehow, then it needs to be fixed.


They aren't bypassing it. It is there to let them move around HS, but in a limited fashion.


-10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place. They have proven that they cant be trusted.


Sure they do. They need to buy stuff too. Or are you suggesting they must have alts? Most of the -10 fly through HS in fast moving ships or their pod--i.e. in this instance they are of little threat and can be shot by both FacPo and players.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#245 - 2017-02-26 20:23:08 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
-10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place
Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty.

Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status?



Yup. Looking like it.

Why should a LS pirate who does not suicide gank be restricted from HS? If he is confining his violence to others to LS...what is the problem? He isn't going to be doing stuff in HS, he is just moving through it or taking care of business in HS (maybe buying stuff and setting up a courier contract).

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#246 - 2017-02-26 20:23:23 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
If you want to make the game better you'd be asking for buffs to ganking. Increases rewards for smart players. Penalises the dumb and lazy. And i mean for haulers and miners when i say that.

But no. Just another carebear that doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Wants the game to change so he doesn't have to think.


You must be on a troll fest or something. That or you are just really dumb...


Not dumb enough to be ganked in a freighter. Big smile


Yeah, just a 3+ bil hull filled with blueprints : https://zkillboard.com/kill/18320221/



Omg.

First, not a gank. Its a gatecamp.
Second, those weren't bp originals as zkill suggests. Everyone is a copy but the age of the kill mail must be screwing up zkill. It was less than one bil at time of loss.
Third, i was a stupid nub. Less than a year old trying to leave null without access to alliance logistics cause i quit too soon.

Difference between me and you? When i lost that ship i didn't come whining to the forums that the game should change to let me be stupid. I learned my lesson. I adapted.


Should have had a second account so you could scout properly... Either way, you messed up hard.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#247 - 2017-02-26 20:24:56 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
-10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place
Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty.

Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status?



Yup. Looking like it.

Why should a LS pirate who does not suicide gank be restricted from HS? If he is confining his violence to others to LS...what is the problem? He isn't going to be doing stuff in HS, he is just moving through it or taking care of business in HS (maybe buying stuff and setting up a courier contract).


Because he is still performing criminal activities. If you dont want the security status hit, you should really be flying in null. If you want to operate in lowsec, join faction warfare and dont be a pirate.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#248 - 2017-02-26 20:28:23 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
-10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place
Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty.

Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status?



Yup. Looking like it.

Why should a LS pirate who does not suicide gank be restricted from HS? If he is confining his violence to others to LS...what is the problem? He isn't going to be doing stuff in HS, he is just moving through it or taking care of business in HS (maybe buying stuff and setting up a courier contract).


Because he is still performing criminal activities. If you dont want the security status hit, you should really be flying in null. If you want to operate in lowsec, join faction warfare and dont be a pirate.


The hypocrisy is hilarious. A person decides to be a LS pirate, confines their activities to LS, but on occasion needs to move through HS and is no threat to people in HS, and is fact has to worry about not only the FacPO, but every player with a gun or drones on their ship....and they aren't allowed to be in HS.

Dude you crack me up.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#249 - 2017-02-26 20:28:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Erich Einstein
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
-10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place
Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty.

Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status?


No, im saying that unless you are in a shuttle or pod to just travel through higsec as a -10.0 criminal, any other ship you should be expected to be blown up before you can commit any further criminal acts in highsec. If you want to be allowed in highsec again in something other than a pod or shuttle, then fix your security status.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#250 - 2017-02-26 20:30:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
And there THAT is.

You don't want outlaws in hi-sec at all. Not gonna happen.

Quote:
Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?

CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.

If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.

Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.


-CCP Falcon

Quote:

I love EVE and the core of what the game stands for. That's why I've been dedicated to it and its community for over 11 years now.

Risk vs Reward is a huge part of that.

Honestly, if that changed, and the game started to soften out and cater to those who want to have their hand held all the way through their gameplay experience, I'd rather not be working on the project regardless of how many subscribers we had, than sell out the core principles that New Eden was built on.

That's a sentiment that I hear a lot around the office, because we are all invested in what makes New Eden so compelling - The dark, gritty, hard reality beneath the pretty ships and nebulas.

EVE is built on the core principle that you are never 100% safe, no matter where you go or what you do. When you interact with another player, you roll the dice on whether they're going to screw you over or not. That's a massive part of the social engineering behind the very basic underpinnings of the EVE Universe.


-CCP Falcon

Don't like it? Don't Play.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#251 - 2017-02-26 20:32:42 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
-10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place
Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty.

Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status?


No, im saying that unless you are in a shuttle or pod to just travel through higsec as a -10.0 criminal, any other ship you should be expected to be blown up before you can commit any further criminal acts in highsec.


My example is a person not committing criminal acts in HS. So your suggestion is bad. If I want to fly a travel fit ceptor in HS while -10, why not. It isn't like I'll be stopping to shoot anything...I'm in a travel fit ceptor.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#252 - 2017-02-26 20:33:14 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
And there THAT is.

You don't want outlaws in hi-sec at all. Not gonna happen.

Quote:
Why should CCP provide protection for your haulage in high sec?

CONCORD offer a level of deterrent just the same as any law enforcement agency, but as with any police for they're reactive and punitive rather than proactive.

If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don't have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.

Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.


-CCP Falcon


There is a big difference between locking them out and requiring them to repair their security status to operate effectively as a highsec criminal. The OP refers to that latter of the two only.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#253 - 2017-02-26 20:34:53 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
-10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place
Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty.

Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status?


No, im saying that unless you are in a shuttle or pod to just travel through higsec as a -10.0 criminal, any other ship you should be expected to be blown up before you can commit any further criminal acts in highsec.


My example is a person not committing criminal acts in HS. So your suggestion is bad. If I want to fly a travel fit ceptor in HS while -10, why not. It isn't like I'll be stopping to shoot anything...I'm in a travel fit ceptor.


because you being a criminal have handed over that right in the past. Repair your security status (say your sorry) and you get those privileges back.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#254 - 2017-02-26 20:44:57 UTC

Quote:

Red Frog Freight hauls ALOT. They use freighters. Yet they lose very, very few freighters--CORRECTION: they fail very few contracts. If we look at their rate of failure for contracts it is very, very low.


This is wrong... I have a RL friend that works for Red Frog using multiple freighters and every single day he is telling me about a new one that goons toons down just outside of jita.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#255 - 2017-02-26 20:46:02 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
-10.0 criminal dont even need to be in highsec in the first place
Ahh now we're getting down to the nitty gritty.

Are you suggesting that access to hisec should be based upon sec status?


No, im saying that unless you are in a shuttle or pod to just travel through higsec as a -10.0 criminal, any other ship you should be expected to be blown up before you can commit any further criminal acts in highsec.


My example is a person not committing criminal acts in HS. So your suggestion is bad. If I want to fly a travel fit ceptor in HS while -10, why not. It isn't like I'll be stopping to shoot anything...I'm in a travel fit ceptor.


Where it commit criminal acts does not matter. Its still criminal in lowsec, you just dont get wrecked by concord for it.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#256 - 2017-02-26 20:47:15 UTC
Please explain how the game is improved by locking me out of highsec for podding some guys in lowsec.
Wander Prian
Nosferatu Security Foundation
#257 - 2017-02-26 20:50:42 UTC
By the same logic, we should lock lowsec, nullsec and wormhole-space from anyone that isn't a criminal.

Wormholer for life.
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#258 - 2017-02-26 20:53:19 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Erich Einstein wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Err...but facpo catch you if you're slow. They can also be tanked and killed iirc.


They dont operate correctly, which makes the security status feature broken. If you can ignore them without care, there is something wrong. Your manipulating a particular mechanic of the game to get around the consequences of security status.


How do they not operate correctly? they will kill you if they catch you.

I am -8.4. I am not a ganker. Explain why you think I should not be able to cross highsec.


because you are -8.4 ... you have given up that privilege by performing criminally in lowsec. If you would have blown up **** in null then your security status would still be positive and you could operate freely in highsec. This change benefits so many things, it pushes more people into nullsec, leaving only those who choose to be real pirates in lowsec. Lowsec is for faction warfare and pirates who dont care to be in highsec with their criminal characters. It also still allows ganking in highsec and for career gankers, it requires them to put in more effort to make sure their security status is always in check. If you take 50bil in a day, you can afford the tags to repair your corpmates security status so that you stay below phase 2 (where you get instantly wrecked when you come to a station or gate in something that doesnt instant warp).
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#259 - 2017-02-26 20:54:13 UTC
Erich Einstein wrote:

Quote:

Red Frog Freight hauls ALOT. They use freighters. Yet they lose very, very few freighters--CORRECTION: they fail very few contracts. If we look at their rate of failure for contracts it is very, very low.


This is wrong... I have a RL friend that works for Red Frog using multiple freighters and every single day he is telling me about a new one that goons toons down just outside of jita.


lol, even if this wasnt a lie,

Its one in thousands that travel everyday.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Erich Einstein
Swoop Salvage
#260 - 2017-02-26 20:55:39 UTC
Wander Prian wrote:
By the same logic, we should lock lowsec, nullsec and wormhole-space from anyone that isn't a criminal.


...if only there was a force established to do that. You missed something in your logic I think because their is no basis to that comment.