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[March] Rorqual and Mining changes

First post First post First post
Author
Zedd Dezz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2017-02-23 18:26:04 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hello again folks. Got another set of changes today for your feedback.
~

[list]
  • Speed up the cycle time of 'Excavator' ore mining drones to 60 seconds, and reduce the yield per cycle to 110 m3 base. This will reduce the idealized yield per minute, increase the number of trips required to and from the asteroid, but also reduce the amount of wasted cycle at the end of an asteroid's life.
  • Add killmails on the destruction of all 'Excavator' drones.


  • I'll have to use my line-item veto pen on this one fozzie, you'll be making something that finally became worth doing not worth doing. And I don't even own a rorq.
    Mr Bignose
    A Blessed Bean
    Pandemic Horde
    #62 - 2017-02-23 18:26:09 UTC
    The yield nerf is liveable but if you had to do it twice now and people are snowballing multiboxing fleets then it's going to be followed by another. Maybe the nature of upgraded anoms should be looked at instead because their capacity is huge and they respawn instantly after clearing. And unless you have a dozen rorqs or more a colossal barely feels crowded.

    The P.A.N.I.C. nerf is just weird. Why not just have active modules cycle off when P.A.N.I.C. is activated?
    Cade Windstalker
    #63 - 2017-02-23 18:26:53 UTC
    CCP Lebowski wrote:
    Tribal Trogdor wrote:
    Quote:
    Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.
    So...if you go in and jam a rorq before he panics, he cant panic? that sounds like a pretty bad fix to the problem here
    I mean he can panic, just not PANIC Blink


    Going to second these concerns, this has serious potential to remove some of the thought and tactical application of the PANIC module for intended uses. Could you instead just make it so that the user has to be within X range of an Asteroid of some kind rather than actively have one locked?
    Hendrink Collie
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #64 - 2017-02-23 18:27:26 UTC
    Querns wrote:
    Whole lotta folks not twigging to the fact that sieging the rorqual gives you ECM immunity ITT.

    I won't comment directly on the nerf, but I do offer this: If the goal here is to help buttress mineral prices, consider taking a look at the mineral basket. (Ask Aryth if you don't understand what this means. Few do.) Decreasing the amount of pyerite and isogen in nullsec anomalies, while increasing mexallon (and to a lesser degree, nocx and mega) will do a lot to help correct the downward trend in minerals.

    If you'd like an idea on how mineral prices react in a high-usage market, check the keepstar in 1DQ1-A.


    Smug and knowledge all in the one post. I love you Querns.



    But anyways, yeah, I really like the changes overall. Looks like CCP is trying to bump the mining fleet more towards fleets of exhumers with a rorqual or two providing strong boost and some defensive capabilities instead of fleets of roaming rorquals hoovering up everything. The PANIC changes are solid, too. Not bad. Smile
    Coelomate Tian
    KarmaFleet
    Goonswarm Federation
    #65 - 2017-02-23 18:27:31 UTC
    Jay Amazingness wrote:
    I feel like people will just wait until the ore anom is dead and then be like I HAVE YOU NOW RORQUAL SCUM and tackle them.


    In poorly defended areas of space, absolutely.

    Wormholers dropping on nullsec rorqs will still largely be limited to immediate targets of opportunity in well-defended space though, which is something.
    Capqu
    Half Empty
    #66 - 2017-02-23 18:27:38 UTC
    Wibla
    Tactical Narcotics Team
    #67 - 2017-02-23 18:27:50 UTC
    handige harrie wrote:
    Sister Bliss wrote:

    Surely reduced ore respawn rates or dimished resources which would force territorial conflict is a better answer? Instead we're force fed a mind numbing solution to a problem of I don't know what. We want more tools for self reliance and generating conflict, not more agonizing tedium.

    What actually is the design problem these changes are meant to resolve?


    CCP isn't interested in solutions to a problem. At this point i just think they design their game drunk. If the problem with rorquals is the amount that is mined, just time ore anomalies the same as ice belts so you can't infinite mine them. If PANIC tackling things is the problem, change it to you can't use EWAR when you are in PANIC and you can't activate PANIC when ewar modules are active..

    There are so many more elegant design solutions than what CCP wants with this, it's painful to see them blundering along.


    There is long and proud history of drunken half-assed code originating on Iceland. See: most of EVE's older codebase.
    Messoroz
    AQUILA INC
    Verge of Collapse
    #68 - 2017-02-23 18:27:58 UTC
    Why not PANIC => Max Target Locks = 0
    handige harrie
    Vereenigde Handels Compagnie
    #69 - 2017-02-23 18:28:11 UTC
    The Slayer wrote:
    The problem with making panic a "Can't use ECM while active" is you can still jump in, get initial tackle on something THEN hit the PANIC when you go into hull. Then second rorq gets tackle. Rinse repeat.


    just add something to the PANIC module;

    - when PANIC module is fit, can't fit tackle.

    Baddest poster ever

    yogizh
    GoonWaffe
    Goonswarm Federation
    #70 - 2017-02-23 18:28:40 UTC
    This nerf is so bad that I gave likes to V0LTA
    Tau Cabalander
    Retirement Retreat
    Working Stiffs
    #71 - 2017-02-23 18:28:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.

    ... and what about ice fields?

    This change also means Rorquals will no longer travel via gates.
    Arele
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #72 - 2017-02-23 18:30:06 UTC
    Querns wrote:
    Well, I lied, I guess I will comment on the nerf: was there a technical challenge involved with giving PANIC the same malus to electronic warfare capacitor usage that Networked Sensor Arrays have, or was it a deliberate decision to not go that route?


    Very odd they chose to go the second path unless the first was an un-forseen challenge to implement, as you are inquiring. Seems needlessly complex..
    Fifth Blade
    Jump Drive Appreciation Society
    #73 - 2017-02-23 18:30:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Fifth Blade
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Excavator Drones:
    We're planning another reduction in Excavator drone yield to help keep the mineral economy healthy.

    While I appreciate the attempt, I believe it may be a bit late for that:
    Trit: https://i.imgur.com/FfWruzm.png
    Pyrite: https://i.imgur.com/def1XnE.png
    Nox: https://i.imgur.com/l3JzYPr.png

    Hel build cost: https://i.imgur.com/d2aupwN.png
    This has created a huge increase in super production.

    What are your thoughts on the massively accelerated super/titan proliferation?

    Do you have any plans to address this problem of proliferation going forward? (now that sp is easily bought and available characters for sale are no longer a limitation).
    Or will we inevitably move to the situation where faction supers are standard fare, much like with subcaps?
    Wibla
    Tactical Narcotics Team
    #74 - 2017-02-23 18:31:03 UTC
    Tau Cabalander wrote:
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Initial activation of the PANIC module would require the Rorqual to have an active target lock on an asteroid.

    ... and what about ice fields?


    NO SOUP FOR YOU!
    Trespasser
    S0utherN Comfort
    Test Alliance Please Ignore
    #75 - 2017-02-23 18:31:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Trespasser
    i think that rorqual nerf is getting close to to much.


    Im fine with more back and forth because good rorqual pilots are going to be sitting on top of whatever they are going to be mining anyway.

    but halfing the base is to much and since they are going to be doing more trips they are already going to be mining less just by that fact alone.

    So i would say up it to 125-130m3 and keep the 60 seconds time...that would be a nerf to the m3 and that coupled with the increased trips back and forth should be more then enough of a nerf.

    And you increasing the distance between roids so your also increasing the time it takes to set back up on another roid.

    All these changes together is bigger then a simple 20% nerf here.

    Your boost to the material drop rates for these drones haven't pushed the drone cost down much either, so i suggest you guys think about boosting that drop rate atleast 300% more then it currently is.. i wouldn't care as much about nerfs if these drones were 500 million each instead of 3 times that amount.


    as far as the panic mod goes i don't understand why this is so hard.

    Having to target roids is silly... better fix.

    When you enter panic mode your lock is broken, and just like the triage mod has or use to have.. the panic mod will get a +999999% cap usage for all Ewar mods... so you can't tackle/web/jam anyone.... and give it the same penality to entosis mods aswell.

    SO now you can't heavy entosis, you can't heavy tackle.. so the only thing the panic mod is useful for now is to become invulerable until help arrives.
    Wibla
    Tactical Narcotics Team
    #76 - 2017-02-23 18:32:26 UTC
    Fifth Blade wrote:
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Excavator Drones:
    We're planning another reduction in Excavator drone yield to help keep the mineral economy healthy.

    While I appreciate the attempt, I believe it may be a bit late for that:
    Trit: https://i.imgur.com/FfWruzm.png
    Pyrite: https://i.imgur.com/def1XnE.png
    Nox: https://i.imgur.com/l3JzYPr.png

    Hel build cost: https://i.imgur.com/d2aupwN.png
    This has created a huge increase in super production.

    What are your thoughts on the massively accelerated super/titan proliferation?

    Do you have any plans to address this, seemingly inevitable (now that sp is easily bought and available characters for sale are no longer a limitation) problem of proliferation going forward? Or will we inevitably move to the situation where faction supers are standard fare, much like with subcaps?


    Look at the whole mineral basket, not just Trit, Pye and Nox. You might be enlightened.

    Tip: Trit, Pye and Nocx are being over-mined to cover a shortfall of Mex from nullsec ore anoms.
    Shalmon Aliatus
    Bluestar Enterprises
    The Craftsmen
    #77 - 2017-02-23 18:32:48 UTC
    Capri Sun KraftFoods wrote:
    Malkshurr wrote:
    At the beginning of Roqual dug as much as 4 hulks
    It was then nerf by 32%
    and now is the nerf by another 25%?

    So one rorqual is 2 hulks now
    2 hulks - 600 - 700 million
    1 rorqual - 12 B

    And you do not see the problem ?


    same tbh

    like

    I can buy a thrasher and it to 250 dps for 10m

    But I buy Proteus for 600m and it only do 550 dps????????

    cpp plz fix


    Proteus for 600m? thats kinda cheap Big smile
    Obi SToN3D
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #78 - 2017-02-23 18:33:35 UTC
    once Fozzie has nerfed all the things maybe he will quit just like Greyscale but to what extent?
    Katsuya Kobayashi
    #79 - 2017-02-23 18:34:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Katsuya Kobayashi
    I think this is a mistake.

    You should just make PANIC worse, and you already gave an incentive to hunt drones with killmails. The yield is not the problem. Just increase the risk.


    I think your adjustments are awful, Fozzie, and you're doing a poor job.
    3TEARS
    Better Off Red
    Unspoken Alliance.
    #80 - 2017-02-23 18:34:49 UTC
    I feel like an easy solution would just be that the rorq cannot use offensive modules while in PANIC. Solves all the problems of super tackle while keeping it "safe" from falcons and while being somewhere there are no asteroids (for whatever reason).