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[March] Balance Tweaks: Focused Warp Scrambling Script

First post First post First post
Author
Jonatan Reed
Wildcard.
Boundary Experts
#241 - 2017-02-24 17:15:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonatan Reed
Finally.

You can still point **** at 37/39km, you just can't scram.

You actually have to think about what you want to take with you to tackle.

ELITE PVP, WHADDUP

Lord Molly
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#242 - 2017-02-24 17:20:47 UTC
oh ccp why you gotta hate on the solo onyx pilot bro's?
Zockhandra
Outback Steakhouse of Pancakes
Dreadbomb.
#243 - 2017-02-24 17:31:32 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi m8s,

In March, we're releasing a number of balance tweaks and we would love your feedback.

WARP DISRUPTION FIELD GENERATORS
The current state of Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators is a little too oppressive, especially to the small gang PvP scene. We'd like to open up propulsion module options. As such, we're going to make some changes.

Changes:
  • Remove the Warp Scrambling effect from the Focused Warp Disruption Script
  • Introduce a new Focused Warp Scrambling Script with a -20% range bonus

The new Focused Warp Scrambling Script will have the following ranges (with max skills):
  • T1: 16km
  • Meta: 18km
  • T2: 20km
  • Faction: 21km

The blueprint for the Focused Warp Scrambling Script will be available at all the same place & price as the Focused Warp Disruption Script blueprint is available.



Fantastic changes, this should open up much more viability for roaming and small group fights without big home-field advantages. though that range still seems a bit on the long side, it certainly opens up the options of T2 disruptors on regular ships again for kiting.

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.

Kenrailae
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#244 - 2017-02-24 17:42:39 UTC
At the very least let us overheat the HIC point, as has been requested by others as well.



If not that, then extend the scram range to a base of 20, and build up from there. It doesn't get bonused by links, so Lachesis will still have a role.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Trajan Unknown
State War Academy
Caldari State
#245 - 2017-02-24 17:44:58 UTC
Casper24 wrote:
I dunno about all ur data diving. But simple as - how many people in this game ( percent wise ) do u think actually think on their own fits. not anything found on zkill or some youtube video. In each group of people how many "content: providers and forward-thinking" people are there out there for u to actually find.

This number is much higher in the FW frig meta granted, but for cruiser roaming - there are very few. That is why imo ur "data" or whatever that means isn't showing you what some of us are mentioning. Everyone and their mom is in an orthrus, a gila, a vni or omen navy. Why ?? cause that's what someone else who saw someone else, or was killed by one of these were flying.

Searching stats or zkill or whatever ur doing is never going to show u the most powerful ships or best setups. Just the most popular, and thats a never ending cycle until some "e-famous something" points it out. See chessurs nose, Suitonias kessy, Zoes Atron, Brains Keres. Everyone in different circles has their own things to insert there. But you get the picture.

Edit - Just a side note - how often do you ever see a small gang comp take on another small gang comp - this doesn't happen, as 2 highly skilled gangs will not put themselves in a position they cannot pull out of. Its 90% small gang vs kitchen sink or gate camp ( where there are none of these "forward thinking skilled players" that your data is looking for.



I would say the percentage of people who "invent" new fits is pretty low and outside of some niche things for special tasks/tournaments a specific hunt there is not much room for stuff that wasn´t there before. But what does that have to do with the topic actually?
My point is not to show off some crazy fits but the amount of HICs used in small gang scenarios. No matter if you lose your "special HIC" or not it will end up in the data stream. The fit doesn´t bother me at all, just pure numbers. And from what I can tell HICs are barely used in small gang stuff compared to all other scenarios. If the HIC would be ass oppressive as some people call it to be you would see it everywhere. But this is not the case except for gatecamps. You will find them a lot on the hi-sec camps, low and null-sec entry gates but that´s it. Maybe counting hi-sec stations too where they seem to be a regular appearance as well.

I barely see two small gangs take on each others and agree on the points you made about the reasoning. And we´re getting closer to the core of the problem it seems. Screwing with gatecamps in nano gangs can be a pita and yes, HICs on gates are pure cance*r but that doesn´t make them oppressive and is no problem for small gangs except you run blind into the camp or engage the thing with a wrong comp. If the reasoning for all the complains is, that you can´t mess with proper organised gatecamps then well, I am sorry but I don´t engage combat carriers with cruisers either. Non the less, I can understand the pain that gatecamps can cause since it´s pretty much no effort to get some juicy kills and sometimes even tears and yes it kinda triggers me when I jump into a system with my slicer/dramiel/insert frigate, get alpha´ed by a bloody gatecamp and get a "gf" in local. But as much as I sometimes wish "gatecamps" wouldn´t exist they are part of the game and just because they feell "oppressive" doesn´t mean they should not exist.
Lord Molly
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#246 - 2017-02-24 17:46:05 UTC
like 30km would be ok, but yeah turbo nerf to 21km is fa far to harsh i think you will see a huge decline in their use in fleets
Lord Molly
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#247 - 2017-02-24 17:55:05 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave
#248 - 2017-02-24 18:05:38 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
At the very least let us overheat the HIC point, as has been requested by others as well.



If not that, then extend the scram range to a base of 20, and build up from there. It doesn't get bonused by links, so Lachesis will still have a role.


i find leaving it at the same range as an unheated lach to be best that way the lach has a role even if you don't have links
Cade Windstalker
#249 - 2017-02-24 18:47:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Twilight Mourning wrote:
RIP my nano-Broadsword for nano-fleets.

Broadsword faction scram 21k, Lachesis faction scram 22.5k or 27k with heat. HICs are great for small nano-fleets to control the range of incoming tackle. This isn't helping small gangs nearly as much as it's hurting them.


I think you may be confusing something that hurts a particular small fleet comp with something that hurts small fleets in general. These are not the same thing. This does make it harder to control range and keep MWDing targets at arms length, but you still have a ship that can do that quite well, it's just squishier and you have to make more of a tradeoff for it...

Lord Molly wrote:
like 30km would be ok, but yeah turbo nerf to 21km is fa far to harsh i think you will see a huge decline in their use in fleets


.... that's the point?
Twilight Mourning
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#250 - 2017-02-24 18:53:16 UTC
Bobmon wrote:
Happy Hyde Happy Life


He won't be getting my vote again.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#251 - 2017-02-24 18:58:23 UTC
Twilight Mourning wrote:
Bobmon wrote:
Happy Hyde Happy Life


He won't be getting my vote again.


because he brought up a concern the community had been voicing for a while?


yeah not the type of candidate i want either
Twilight Mourning
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#252 - 2017-02-24 19:09:39 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Twilight Mourning wrote:
Bobmon wrote:
Happy Hyde Happy Life


He won't be getting my vote again.


because he brought up a concern the community had been voicing for a while?


yeah not the type of candidate i want either


You have your opinion, I have mine. *shrug*
01d Man
Gallente Federation
#253 - 2017-02-24 19:24:58 UTC
Do you Devs even talk to the CSM.
What a stupid change. This was a valid change 2 years ago but not in the current meta
Hilti Enaka
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#254 - 2017-02-24 19:37:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Hilti Enaka
Warp scrambing/disrupting in general is oppressive overall, its such a dumb ass idea with the current gaming these days. The counter argument is "players should be forced to commit or not commit" but the game play becomes too dull and predictable.

These modules or the concept of making people decide to commit or not commit, or the "locking" of someone down so they die in ball of fire needs a new direction.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#255 - 2017-02-24 19:38:43 UTC
01d Man wrote:
Do you Devs even talk to the CSM.
What a stupid change. This was a valid change 2 years ago but not in the current meta



has the hic even had a scram for two years? it's all a blur
penifSMASH
ElitistOps
Snuffed Out
#256 - 2017-02-24 19:47:39 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
At the very least let us overheat the HIC point, as has been requested by others as well.



If not that, then extend the scram range to a base of 20, and build up from there. It doesn't get bonused by links, so Lachesis will still have a role.


I completely agree with this post.

These changes are in the right direction. I think the real issue with the complaints in this thread are with Garmurs and Orthruses, which are in need of a balance pass.
Solaris Vex
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#257 - 2017-02-24 19:56:51 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Twilight Mourning wrote:
Bobmon wrote:
Happy Hyde Happy Life


He won't be getting my vote again.


because he brought up a concern the community had been voicing for a while?


yeah not the type of candidate i want either


What community has been voicing that? Probably just the small nano gang crew, and its not as if they need any help the orthrus is still OP.

This change nerfs a niche ship to help a playstyle thats already strong.

And remember the T2 point requires investing a million sp for graviton physics V, a skill with literally no other pvp use. Add a another 1.2 million sp to train hics V and you can bet that most people don't have a 37km scram. My scram range is 32km and after these change will be ~18km, aka totally useless. I might as well fly an orthrus which has similar scram range and is better in other ways too.
Cade Windstalker
#258 - 2017-02-24 20:01:40 UTC
Solaris Vex wrote:
What community has been voicing that? Probably just the small nano gang crew, and its not as if they need any help the orthrus is still OP.

This change nerfs a niche ship to help a playstyle thats already strong.

And remember the T2 point requires investing a million sp for graviton physics V, a skill with literally no other pvp use. Add a another 1.2 million sp to train hics V and you can bet that most people don't have a 37km scram. My scram range is 32km and after these change will be ~18km, aka totally useless. I might as well fly an orthrus which has similar scram range and is better in other ways too.


Doesn't matter if most people didn't have the max range, before this you still easily got a significantly higher Scram range with a HIC than you could with a focused EWar ship and a load more tank and gank in the bundle.
Solaris Vex
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#259 - 2017-02-24 20:21:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Solaris Vex
Cade Windstalker wrote:


Doesn't matter if most people didn't have the max range, before this you still easily got a significantly higher Scram range with a HIC than you could with a focused EWar ship and a load more tank and gank in the bundle.


No hic has good damage relative to its price. Tank and scram range were the hics selling points. They don't have the range, speed, or damage projection of on othrus, and neither the orthrus or hics could point as far as a Lach. These were well balanced stats that gave each ship a role, but after these changes the Lach can point AND scram farther then a hic.
Ele Rebellion
Fat Dragon Mining Co.
Darwinism.
#260 - 2017-02-24 20:37:29 UTC
Please give overheating a range bonus!