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Pirate Battleships & Absurd Ganker Arguments

First post
Author
Falafel Express
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#101 - 2017-02-23 18:01:21 UTC
Is there an active detection for angry posts on the forum that alters your portrait?

Either that or OP hit the point at character creation.

http://media.galaxant.com/000/286/506/600x315-1439496482.jpg
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#102 - 2017-02-23 18:26:26 UTC
lilol' me wrote:

oh true story i saw yesterday literally 50 large t1 and t2 bubbles on a gate both sidea to stop people hassling carebears.. crazy eh..
cant do that in highsec


Don't have to, highsec has concord, faction police and station/gate guns.
lilol' me
Comply Or Die
Fraternity.
#103 - 2017-02-23 19:02:32 UTC  |  Edited by: lilol' me
baltec1 wrote:
lilol' me wrote:

oh true story i saw yesterday literally 50 large t1 and t2 bubbles on a gate both sidea to stop people hassling carebears.. crazy eh..
cant do that in highsec


Don't have to, highsec has concord, faction police and station/gate guns.


concord does and stops nothing thats why we have rampant suicide ganking
lowsec gates guns can be easily tanked infact warp off come back and they forget you even did anything. gatea guns dont do much in a belt or anom in low aec either.

come on mate get with it...

i mean lets talk about PL and carebearing shall we. you think its OK for PL to earn billions in PASSIVE income for owning tons of moons or even renting systems for doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? I mean seriously yiu complain about highsec dudes earning a few million isk!!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#104 - 2017-02-23 19:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
lilol' me wrote:
concord does and stops nothing thats why we have rampant suicide ganking
Concord are punitive, they're not there to stop anything, they're there to punish people for breaking the one single rule that they enforce: "Thou shalt not use an offensive module on another capsuleer".

They are there to deter, not prevent, and they do it well, as evidenced by the fact that suicide gankers represent a fraction of a percent of all hisec residents.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#105 - 2017-02-23 19:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
lilol' me wrote:


concord does and stops nothing thats why we have rampant suicide ganking


What rampant suicide ganking?

lilol' me wrote:

lowsec gates guns can be easily tanked infact warp off come back and they forget you even did anything. gatea guns dont do much in a belt or anom in low aec either.


We are talking about highsec not lowsec, those belts will have faction police and concord arrive. Just because concord is punitive doesn't mean they don't force a level of protection on you. 99.99% of people you meet in highsec will not shoot at you. Its the other way around in null.


lilol' me wrote:

i mean lets talk about PL and carebearing shall we. you think its OK for PL to earn billions in PASSIVE income for owning tons of moons or even renting systems for doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? I mean seriously yiu complain about highsec dudes earning a few million isk!!


Come and take those assets off us then.
Cade Windstalker
#106 - 2017-02-23 19:24:17 UTC
lilol' me wrote:
concord does and stops nothing thats why we have rampant suicide ganking
lowsec gates guns can be easily tanked infact warp off come back and they forget you even did anything. gatea guns dont do much in a belt or anom in low aec either.

come on mate get with it...

i mean lets talk about PL and carebearing shall we. you think its OK for PL to earn billions in PASSIVE income for owning tons of moons or even renting systems for doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? I mean seriously yiu complain about highsec dudes earning a few million isk!!


Couple things here:


  • Suicide ganking is hardly 'rampant' because it's actually a pretty expensive pastime if you're not selected with your targets. If you're not profitable to gank you're fairly safe, and if you take a ton of people to kill and those people aren't around you're also fairly safe. The vast majority of people who die to suicide ganks either have no tank or were auto-piloting. Often both.
  • Gate guns can be tanked but it's not exactly easy. Gate Guns deal about 200DPS per gun, which means in a .4 system you have to be able to tank 1600 DPS plus whatever your enemy puts on you. This is why the vast majority of pirates don't take actual fights on gates or stations, because if they're the ones who went Flashy it's basically like having to fight a Vindicator plus whatever your enemy brought in terms of DPS. It gets easier in lower sec status, but at minimum you're still dealing with a 400 DPS handicap if you engage on a gate or station.
  • Anyone claiming that anyone else is making absurd ISK for doing "nothing" in this game is almost certainly just flatly ignorant. There's a huge amount of organization and logistics that goes into taking space, holding it, and getting the products out of it and to a market where they can be sold. That's without even getting into what it takes to actually keep a large group of players working together, entertained and logging in, and working towards a common goal. It only seems easy because the successful groups making it look easy, the non-successful groups explode pretty spectacularly sooner or later. Look up Atlas Alliance for a great example of an organizational failscade.
  • And lastly I can find zero instances of baltec1 saying anything about high-sec earnings, let alone a complaint in this thread, and I can't recall him saying much if anything about it anywhere else either. He's generally pretty knowledgeable and doesn't shoot his mouth off without something loaded to back it up... like, you know, facts.


baltec1 wrote:
Come and take those assets off us then.


This I would pay money to see... LolLolLol
lilol' me
Comply Or Die
Fraternity.
#107 - 2017-02-23 19:38:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
lilol' me wrote:


concord does and stops nothing thats why we have rampant suicide ganking


What rampant suicide ganking?

lilol' me wrote:

lowsec gates guns can be easily tanked infact warp off come back and they forget you even did anything. gatea guns dont do much in a belt or anom in low aec either.


We are talking about highsec not lowsec, those belts will have faction police and concord arrive. Just because concord is punitive doesn't mean they don't force a level of protection on you. 99.99% of people you meet in highsec will not shoot at you. Its the other way around in null.


lilol' me wrote:

i mean lets talk about PL and carebearing shall we. you think its OK for PL to earn billions in PASSIVE income for owning tons of moons or even renting systems for doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? I mean seriously yiu complain about highsec dudes earning a few million isk!!


Come and take those assets off us then.


and thats EXACTLY the problem..


Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#108 - 2017-02-23 19:42:35 UTC
lilol' me wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
lilol' me wrote:


concord does and stops nothing thats why we have rampant suicide ganking


What rampant suicide ganking?

lilol' me wrote:

lowsec gates guns can be easily tanked infact warp off come back and they forget you even did anything. gatea guns dont do much in a belt or anom in low aec either.


We are talking about highsec not lowsec, those belts will have faction police and concord arrive. Just because concord is punitive doesn't mean they don't force a level of protection on you. 99.99% of people you meet in highsec will not shoot at you. Its the other way around in null.


lilol' me wrote:

i mean lets talk about PL and carebearing shall we. you think its OK for PL to earn billions in PASSIVE income for owning tons of moons or even renting systems for doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING? I mean seriously yiu complain about highsec dudes earning a few million isk!!


Come and take those assets off us then.


and thats EXACTLY the problem..


What? That you're too lazy to go and take those assets from them?

Quelle surprise.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Tobby Jug
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#109 - 2017-02-23 21:49:34 UTC
I can see the OP's argument about gankers ruining the game for him, what ruins the game for me is spaceships, CCP should remove all spaceships from EVE and that would solve the ganking problem.....and space....remove space too, its killing the game!!
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#110 - 2017-02-24 06:22:25 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
lilol' me wrote:
concord does and stops nothing thats why we have rampant suicide ganking
Concord are punitive, they're not there to stop anything, they're there to punish people for breaking the one single rule that they enforce: "Thou shalt not use an offensive module on another capsuleer".

They are there to deter, not prevent, and they do it well, as evidenced by the fact that suicide gankers represent a fraction of a percent of all hisec residents.

Wrong but your a relative newb compared to me

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Keno Skir
#111 - 2017-02-24 07:46:38 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
lilol' me wrote:
concord does and stops nothing thats why we have rampant suicide ganking
Concord are punitive, they're not there to stop anything, they're there to punish people for breaking the one single rule that they enforce: "Thou shalt not use an offensive module on another capsuleer".

They are there to deter, not prevent, and they do it well, as evidenced by the fact that suicide gankers represent a fraction of a percent of all hisec residents.

Wrong but your a relative newb compared to me


You're a relative newb. There ya go.

Concord actually work really well as evidenced by the fact violence is possible in hisec without it getting out of hand (that's the point of concord). Ganking is fine, it's not as big a deal as is being made out since the majority of players never really have any issue with it.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#112 - 2017-02-24 07:47:36 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
lilol' me wrote:
concord does and stops nothing thats why we have rampant suicide ganking
Concord are punitive, they're not there to stop anything, they're there to punish people for breaking the one single rule that they enforce: "Thou shalt not use an offensive module on another capsuleer".

They are there to deter, not prevent, and they do it well, as evidenced by the fact that suicide gankers represent a fraction of a percent of all hisec residents.

Wrong but your a relative newb compared to me
Which part? That suicide gankers only represent a percent of highsec residents, or that CONCORD is not there to prevent interactions, just punish?

At best, there are only a hundred or two players actively suicide ganking (as estimated from 'Active PvP' window in killboards like this one) compared to the tens of thousands of characters that log in each week to move about highsec. Shooting other people in highsec is definitely a niche activity.

As for CONCORD, Jonah provided the exact same reason CONCORD exists as CCP does in the New Pilot FAQ, the document written by them to teach players how the game is designed and works:
CCP wrote:

5.2 WHO IS CONCORD AND WHAT ROLE DO THEY PERFORM?
CONCORD can be considered to be the ‘space police’ who patrol the higher security areas of New Eden. They take action against those who attack others without justification and will hunt such miscreants down and destroy them without mercy. However, their role is not to prevent an attack but to punish an aggressor. Should you find yourself under fire from another pilot, CONCORD may not arrive in time to help you, so it will be down to your skill and the strength of your ship to prevail.
I know you have some irrational belief that you understand the game design of Eve better than CCP itself for some reason, but you are just denying reality now. CONCORD clearly is designed to deter violence in highsec by imposing a cost on aggression. If CCP wanted CONCORD to stop violence, or violence not to exist in highsec, there are much simpler game mechanics, like locking safeties to green now that we have them, which would completely prevent highsec violence against other players.

From the beginning the designers of the game intended for there to be no safe spaces, and wanted to enable PvP aggression if those players were willing to suffer the consequences. That is the game they built so long ago, and that is the game we have today. Denying that reality (or reality in general) isn't a very healthy way to go through life and sets you up for unhappiness when your expectations of reality don't match the real thing.

Players who don't want such a game where players can shoot each other everywhere, and violence can find you non-consensually even in the safest space in the game, should just go find a game where those would be considered exploits, not features like in Eve Online. There are plenty of games like that out there.

Salvos Rhoska
#113 - 2017-02-24 08:16:53 UTC
Its a continuing mystery to me why suicide ganking is so over-represented in discussion here, considering its tiny rate of occurrence in EVE.

Its also a mystery to me why some people want to turn HS into a WoW-style Goldshire.

I also dont understand people trying to nerf LS gatecamps, when its pretty much the only thing LS has going for it.
(LS gets the poopy end of the stick on just about everything anyways)
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#114 - 2017-02-24 08:30:17 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Its also a mystery to me why some people want to turn HS into a WoW-style Goldshire.


That is a very disturbing thought. Shocked
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#115 - 2017-02-24 09:01:01 UTC
lilol' me wrote:


and thats EXACTLY the problem..




What is?
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
Brave Collective
#116 - 2017-02-24 10:25:19 UTC
"Sov holders get stuff for doing nothing" is almost as dumb as the "minerals i mine are free though" blurt of combustible ignorance i see from time to time.
OP has no real point to make and seems to have mistaken his butthert for someone else's character flaws, common enough in any combat environment.
The CCP Oveur quote was that piracy is meant to be harder in hisec, not impossible and by no means implied that EvE was designed unable to support such activity.
In civilisation, resorting to force and violence is barbarism that proves corrosive to that civilisation.
In a realm of spaec-gods unfettered by anything but overwhelming opposition, the appeal to morality is a non-sequitur.

Trust CCP, if wrecking fools hurt the game they'd be right onto it and have been in the past.


Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#117 - 2017-02-24 11:56:07 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
lilol' me wrote:
concord does and stops nothing thats why we have rampant suicide ganking
Concord are punitive, they're not there to stop anything, they're there to punish people for breaking the one single rule that they enforce: "Thou shalt not use an offensive module on another capsuleer".

They are there to deter, not prevent, and they do it well, as evidenced by the fact that suicide gankers represent a fraction of a percent of all hisec residents.

Wrong but your a relative newb compared to me
Which bit?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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lilol' me
Comply Or Die
Fraternity.
#118 - 2017-02-24 12:23:39 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
lilol' me wrote:
concord does and stops nothing thats why we have rampant suicide ganking
Concord are punitive, they're not there to stop anything, they're there to punish people for breaking the one single rule that they enforce: "Thou shalt not use an offensive module on another capsuleer".

They are there to deter, not prevent, and they do it well, as evidenced by the fact that suicide gankers represent a fraction of a percent of all hisec residents.

Wrong but your a relative newb compared to me
Which part? That suicide gankers only represent a percent of highsec residents, or that CONCORD is not there to prevent interactions, just punish?

At best, there are only a hundred or two players actively suicide ganking (as estimated from 'Active PvP' window in killboards like this one) compared to the tens of thousands of characters that log in each week to move about highsec. Shooting other people in highsec is definitely a niche activity.

As for CONCORD, Jonah provided the exact same reason CONCORD exists as CCP does in the New Pilot FAQ, the document written by them to teach players how the game is designed and works:
CCP wrote:

5.2 WHO IS CONCORD AND WHAT ROLE DO THEY PERFORM?
CONCORD can be considered to be the ‘space police’ who patrol the higher security areas of New Eden. They take action against those who attack others without justification and will hunt such miscreants down and destroy them without mercy. However, their role is not to prevent an attack but to punish an aggressor. Should you find yourself under fire from another pilot, CONCORD may not arrive in time to help you, so it will be down to your skill and the strength of your ship to prevail.
I know you have some irrational belief that you understand the game design of Eve better than CCP itself for some reason, but you are just denying reality now. CONCORD clearly is designed to deter violence in highsec by imposing a cost on aggression. If CCP wanted CONCORD to stop violence, or violence not to exist in highsec, there are much simpler game mechanics, like locking safeties to green now that we have them, which would completely prevent highsec violence against other players.

From the beginning the designers of the game intended for there to be no safe spaces, and wanted to enable PvP aggression if those players were willing to suffer the consequences. That is the game they built so long ago, and that is the game we have today. Denying that reality (or reality in general) isn't a very healthy way to go through life and sets you up for unhappiness when your expectations of reality don't match the real thing.

Players who don't want such a game where players can shoot each other everywhere, and violence can find you non-consensually even in the safest space in the game, should just go find a game where those would be considered exploits, not features like in Eve Online. There are plenty of games like that out there.



Why have you just wrote a wall of text of something i didnt even argue about lol... thats funny...
lilol' me
Comply Or Die
Fraternity.
#119 - 2017-02-24 12:24:53 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
lilol' me wrote:


and thats EXACTLY the problem..




What is?


people not being able to take those assets when you can drop 1000 dreads and supers..... but i guess its OK for you to have passive income but not others...hmmm sounds like hypocricy
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#120 - 2017-02-24 13:29:21 UTC
lilol' me wrote:
Why have you just wrote a wall of text of something i didnt even argue about lol... thats funny...
He wasn't addressing you, he was addressing the other troll.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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