These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Out of Pod Experience

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Arrival

Author
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#1 - 2017-02-19 16:51:27 UTC
Has anyone else watched the movie Arrival?

I thought it was a very good foundation for learning to communicate.


Not all alien mega structures would be necessarily comprised of steel. An alien language could also be a mega structure.

https://phys.org/news/2016-12-astronomers-mysterious-dimming-young-nearby.html

This is an interesting theory to the light curves of several stars that have mysterious dims that cannot be explained.

Why were Sheena Easton sites used?....See...She....He...across the distance of the sea.

How an alien civilization might communicate with Earth.

The very first sense that a newborn uses upon emerging from the womb is its eyes as it encounters light for the very first time. An alien civilization having discovered Earth but not wanting to disturb our natural evolution would understand that the simple sense of sight would be a common language foundation or speech through seeing.
Hearing would be the second sense with touch and smell and taste to follow. But the two primary foundations of a language would be sight and hearing that like the letter A would form the legs of the letter A to a single point of understanding. The bar in the center of the letter A is to ensure that the rigidity of the foundation is remains connected at the simplest forms of communications and to not get to communicated with dual meanings of words.
In 1977 the Voyager program launched into space to explore what we call Deep Space, or the space beyond Pluto. On both of those spacecraft were Golden Records that described humanity and Earth and where Earth was located thus achieving the first foundation of communication between an alien civilization through sight.
An advanced alien civilization would know how sound is created based on a guide wavelength's, depth. width and length that would allow the aliens to understand what was on the record.
Like I mentioned sight is the first sense that an infant uses when it comes from the void into the light. Humans looking from the Earth into space is much like the infant seeing for its first time. An alien race would design its language based on sight first as a mutual understanding as a formal base of communication.
Because light travels very far and very fast through space and has a less likely chance to degrade across time and since sight is the first sense that we use an advanced civilization would use the largest source of light that we can see in space to communicate with.
A sun.
A sun emits light based on its own rhythm but there are several stars that are experiencing mysterious light curves or dims that cannot be explained as there is not any celestial objects interfering with the suns to cause the dims. The only explanation can be that something is manipulating the sun's light curve to create a language that humans can first see.
Stars that have mysterious dims that cannot be explained are:

RIK-210
EPIC-2042
KIC-8462

The closest sun is RIK-210 at approx 470 light years from Earth.

In all three mysteries the numbers, 0,1,2,4,6 and 8 are present in the first three and four numerical values.

All of these stars have dims that have increase mysteriously that much like the wavelength of sound can converted into sight at the speed of light.

Going back to the Golden Record and how a record is made. Each sound that is recorded on a record has left and right wave channel that the stylus travels across to create the desired the sound. If the light curves of the three suns listed above are treated like the wave channels where the length, depth and distance are converted into wave channels and a stylus then travels through both left and right wave channels then a message might be present that an advanced alien civilization is using to try and communicate with humanity.
The link below shows a record and stylus at 1,000 times magnification. If you look close enough at the outside edges of the wave channels a 2D wavelength is formed that is very much similar to how a light curve of a sun would look in 2D.

http://dangerousminds.net/comments/vinyl_and_stylus_at_1000x_magnification

If the light curves of the above three mysterious suns are placed together in various combinations such as the right channel of RIK-210 and the left channel of EPIC-2042 for example then the Golden Record of the aliens trying to communicate with humans might be present.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#2 - 2017-02-19 20:26:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
So you mean its aliens giving us their Alien Elvis records for free to listen on galactic Spotiffy (like in Spot [the] iffy)?

Firstly, I dont think this is the most probable thing to begin, because naturally ocuring gravitational forces would mingle with such playtrack. And of course natural celestial bodies are the first candidate to be instruments in such machine. Cyclopic in scale. Fairly unprobable, not to say impossible, would be to plan the track so it would play continuously the same thing, and even more improbable and more impossible would be to plan a soundscape developing itself naturally into future.

What kind of energy would be needed and only for someone to see a signal created in such way?

Radio signals are the best. These are too electromagnetic waves, and you dont need a sun. And I dont think Aliens would want to communicate with some creatures that dont know what radio wave is. I think, that them building cosmic stonehanges with suns and ginormous boulders in space would be wery wasteful. Such civilization would rather come with spaceships and vaporize us on first occasion.
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2017-02-20 15:24:27 UTC
It was an interesting movie.

Aliens may not have a sense for sound.

There are 3 distinct features that keeps recurring
all throughout evolution.

Those are vision, fur and ability to fly. They keep poppin
up in various forms in very diverse species.

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.

Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters
#4 - 2017-02-20 23:00:22 UTC
Didn't see the film yet. But I read the book. Gosh, it was weird. Bunch of different stories thrown together. People building a endless tower into the sky that touched heaven and they proceeeded to mine into it until endless water poured out. I was like wtf. The later in the book, the weirder the story it seemed. Hyper intelligent humans that battled each other with their minds that took a fraction of a second but was described over like 8 pages and then one dude just dissolves into atoms lol. Then the crazy automaton magic naming thing with the dude obsessed with gonads and spermatophores and what not. Not very light reading. From what I've gathered the film is all about the middle story. The heptapods come and our attempts to communicate with them. I hope it resolves better in the film because in the book they bust ass for years with these gross things only for them to be like "Cool. Good talk." Then they dip out and no one learns anything beyond that.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#5 - 2017-02-21 09:23:26 UTC
Eurydia Vespasian wrote:
Didn't see the film yet. But I read the book. Gosh, it was weird. Bunch of different stories thrown together. People building a endless tower into the sky that touched heaven and they proceeeded to mine into it until endless water poured out. I was like wtf. The later in the book, the weirder the story it seemed. Hyper intelligent humans that battled each other with their minds that took a fraction of a second but was described over like 8 pages and then one dude just dissolves into atoms lol. Then the crazy automaton magic naming thing with the dude obsessed with gonads and spermatophores and what not. Not very light reading. From what I've gathered the film is all about the middle story. The heptapods come and our attempts to communicate with them. I hope it resolves better in the film because in the book they bust ass for years with these gross things only for them to be like "Cool. Good talk." Then they dip out and no one learns anything beyond that.


Film is much easier then....still a good watch ...book interest me now might grab it for reading.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#6 - 2017-02-21 18:02:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Hmm, about this film, its classic theme of problems in mutual comunication and barriers between aliens and humans.

Stanisław Lem was good in writing books about it. even including AI, not only aliens.

Solaris, His Master's Voice, Fiasco, The Invincible, many different stories...
Yiole Gionglao
#7 - 2017-02-21 21:53:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Yiole Gionglao
Nana Skalski wrote:
Hmm, about this film, its classic theme of problems in mutual comunication and barriers between aliens and humans.

Stanisław Lem was good in writing books about it. even including AI, not only aliens.

Solaris, His Master's Voice, Fiasco, The Invincible, many different stories...


Duh, I'm still trying to make sense of the ending of Fiasco. Who/what are the aliens exactly? I've read the book seven times both in a Catalan-from-English translation and then in a Spanish-from-Polish translation, but I still can't picture the aliens. Are them microscopical and live buried underground? Are them massive and mostly inmobile and the protagonist just accidentally wounds one of them? Is the whole planet a tapestry of living beings? Or maybe all the aliens are dead, or gone, and what human encounter are just decoys and war machines fighting on their own?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an alpha / And so it's you

DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#8 - 2017-03-02 02:07:55 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
So you mean its aliens giving us their Alien Elvis records for free to listen on galactic Spotiffy (like in Spot [the] iffy)?

Firstly, I dont think this is the most probable thing to begin, because naturally ocuring gravitational forces would mingle with such playtrack. And of course natural celestial bodies are the first candidate to be instruments in such machine. Cyclopic in scale. Fairly unprobable, not to say impossible, would be to plan the track so it would play continuously the same thing, and even more improbable and more impossible would be to plan a soundscape developing itself naturally into future.

What kind of energy would be needed and only for someone to see a signal created in such way?

Radio signals are the best. These are too electromagnetic waves, and you dont need a sun. And I dont think Aliens would want to communicate with some creatures that dont know what radio wave is. I think, that them building cosmic stonehanges with suns and ginormous boulders in space would be wery wasteful. Such civilization would rather come with spaceships and vaporize us on first occasion.



I have done some calculations and the most recent decrease in the light curve of KIC 8462 does remain at a consistent signal if you will.

1890 - first year in which the light curve of KIC 8462 decreased and was recorded
- from 1890 to 1989 the light curve of KIC decreased by .1414141414141414% each year for 99 years totaling
a 14% decrease in the light curve of KIC 8462.

The .1414% decrease in light over 99 years would remain consistent with a Super Jupiter transiting across KIC 8462 each year putting the Super Jupiter sized planet possibly within an approximately same orbital zone around KIC 8462 that Earth orbits around our Sun.


But when Kepler took it readings the light decreased by 3% (14% to 17%) over the four years of the Kepler mission. That is a .75% increase in the decrease on yearly basis compared to the 99 years increase of the decrease of the light curve of .1414%. The difference is .6086% which over 99 years would equal a .006147474% decrease in the light curve of KIC 8462. An object would be too small to register such a decrease in the light of the sun at .006147474%

DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#9 - 2017-03-02 02:08:56 UTC
Yiole Gionglao wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Hmm, about this film, its classic theme of problems in mutual comunication and barriers between aliens and humans.

Stanisław Lem was good in writing books about it. even including AI, not only aliens.

Solaris, His Master's Voice, Fiasco, The Invincible, many different stories...


Duh, I'm still trying to make sense of the ending of Fiasco. Who/what are the aliens exactly? I've read the book seven times both in a Catalan-from-English translation and then in a Spanish-from-Polish translation, but I still can't picture the aliens. Are them microscopical and live buried underground? Are them massive and mostly inmobile and the protagonist just accidentally wounds one of them? Is the whole planet a tapestry of living beings? Or maybe all the aliens are dead, or gone, and what human encounter are just decoys and war machines fighting on their own?



Watch the movie....you will be truly amazed.
Ranzabar
Doomheim
#10 - 2017-04-01 00:55:47 UTC
One a tangent, watch the computer screens in the military camp buildings. They're using the Wolfram Language web interface for visualizing the circles/language. Pretty cool. BTW, the ideal that the aliens are Cephalopods is really interesting.

Abide

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#11 - 2017-04-01 08:32:25 UTC
Yiole Gionglao wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Hmm, about this film, its classic theme of problems in mutual comunication and barriers between aliens and humans.

Stanisław Lem was good in writing books about it. even including AI, not only aliens.

Solaris, His Master's Voice, Fiasco, The Invincible, many different stories...


Duh, I'm still trying to make sense of the ending of Fiasco. Who/what are the aliens exactly? I've read the book seven times both in a Catalan-from-English translation and then in a Spanish-from-Polish translation, but I still can't picture the aliens. Are them microscopical and live buried underground? Are them massive and mostly inmobile and the protagonist just accidentally wounds one of them? Is the whole planet a tapestry of living beings? Or maybe all the aliens are dead, or gone, and what human encounter are just decoys and war machines fighting on their own?

Aliens are too different to understand them and that is the point of the story.

Basically its a story about fail - Fiasco.
Kirie Kumamato
Ascension From Okomon
#12 - 2017-04-01 21:30:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirie Kumamato
The aliens in Arrival are also just a plot device to me - the cool bit was taking the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis to its limits. And somehow tying that with a story about motherhood. That was pretty awesome.