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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Some thoughts on the New Player Experience
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zMaile Anthar
Space Diggers
#1 - 2017-02-15 04:59:28 UTC
So I was thinking about how the NPE explains what this game is all about, and i was left thinking, "Eve is not an easy to learn, on-rails game". It is literally the exact opposite.

From what i can gather, the intent of the NPE is (1) to teach new players the interface, and (2) keep them interested in the game. The first point is really getting much better. However when I think about the 2nd point, I believe it is currently flawed.

One reason is that the NPE tries to make it seem like the player is big and important in this universe, and that they have good skills. Although this may be correct compared to non-capsuleers (of which the tutorial NPCs are), I feel like this is setting the player up for disappointment when they finish the tutorial and approach the player interaction side of the game (whether explo, PvP, or even industry).

The other main feature of this game is that there are so many different career paths that can be taken in this game for specialisation, such as this image. This is what makes Eve Online a 'full universe'. Many of these careers don't even have in-game tools to perform, such as many leadership paths. Yet the NPE is completely missing this entire concept.

I don't believe the fix is easy however. It would require a rewrite so to speak, which is a tough proposition for a new system.

  • Tell players that this is not an easy game (so they aren't surprised)
  • Show players they have an entire player-run universe they can take a place in.
  • give the above as a first impression (such as intro video) so they know what the aim is right from the get-go

I'll expand on the above points.

Game complexity

Yes, players need to know that this isn't an easy game, which is "a problem". However, this problem is actually what makes this an interesting game, because there are no players that do everything well. A new player can do what a bitter-vet can't fairly very quickly if the newbro focuses their attention. Which brings me to the 'solution' that a newbro should be given at the the same time; by being a complex game, there is room to specialise in an area that very few others do. A specialised player is important because without them, an entire system may fall apart. e.g. A large (nullsec) alliance needs:

  • FCs
  • Industry players (fuel production, PI, moon mining/reactions, mining)
  • recruiters
  • Pilots (main dps, logi, support ewar, tackle, etc)

There is so much space for someone to actually be important without needing to be at the top of leadership. The NPE needs to make a new player aware of this, as something for them to strive towards. Again, make something like the above linked flowchart that shows just how many much room there is for specialisation, and show it very early on.

On rails NPE

The NPE should still introduce the interface, which it is getting much better at. And the easiest way to do this is with an on rails set of missions. However, care needs to be taken that the player realises that the focus of the missions is on learning the interface, not the story. The story is great at introducing that New Eden has a buttload of lore for those that are interested. However, as an introduction to the game it misses the fact that (most?) of the lore is made by players.[1]

Player retention

Many people that try eve are not the kind of person that want to play it. By keeping the NPE true to the game's playstyle, the players that this game fits will continue, and those that don't like the playstyle will leave sooner (but that's okay). Focusing on "new players keep leaving after they dock up so we have to fix that that hurdle" is completely missing the point of player retention. The station is a 'safe' place they can quit the game. Whether it's done at 1 hour or 4 hours, that's when people decide if this game fits their needs enough.

Give them an on rails NPE, and they'll think they're playing a crappy mass effect or something. Give them a universe to grow themselves into, and they'll (maybe) decide to carve out a small place for themselves.

Original reddit thread


[1] Perhaps the story could revolve around the aftermath of a PvP battle (make it very clear this was a player battle, not NPC), and how it affected other players, alliances, markets, and even NPCs. Perhaps a dead alliance as to be more impartial than suggesting an active one.
Cade Windstalker
#2 - 2017-02-15 05:11:57 UTC
zMaile Anthar wrote:


  • Tell players that this is not an easy game (so they aren't surprised)
  • Show players they have an entire player-run universe they can take a place in.
  • give the above as a first impression (such as intro video) so they know what the aim is right from the get-go


If anyone isn't already aware of these three things upon joining the game then I think CCP's advertising department would like to know where the heck they even heard about the game. Literally every video CCP has put out in the last five years, every article that's been written on the game, and every pitch I have ever personally given has contained some version of the phrase "unforgiving player driven sandbox game"

If anyone is surprised that the game is hard, or doesn't understand that the game is huge and player run, then no amount of NPE tweaking is going to help them here.

Normally I'm all in favor of improvements to the NPE, I spent enough years in Eve Uni hanging around and helping to educate newbie pilots, but the only place I can find that this information would be remotely useful would be if CCP managed to sneak their NPE into a World of Warcraft expansion...
zMaile Anthar
Space Diggers
#3 - 2017-02-15 05:48:14 UTC
I guess what i'm getting at is that the impression of the game from the ads and word of mouth are faithful to the actual game. The problem arises that once they actually try the game out, the first impression of the game actually comes from when the game is installed. Currently there is a significant difference between the media that gets a player to install the game, and the actual NPE. While the interface/controls part of the NPE is getting better, the actual feel of the game is not successfully given as there is no player interaction.
Cade Windstalker
#4 - 2017-02-15 06:08:05 UTC
zMaile Anthar wrote:
I guess what i'm getting at is that the impression of the game from the ads and word of mouth are faithful to the actual game. The problem arises that once they actually try the game out, the first impression of the game actually comes from when the game is installed. Currently there is a significant difference between the media that gets a player to install the game, and the actual NPE. While the interface/controls part of the NPE is getting better, the actual feel of the game is not successfully given as there is no player interaction.


You're never going to get this though, because the advertising about player driven and focused events is focused on *players* and the NPE has to be scripted. If you try and create a scripted experience that's pretending to be a player event you risk creating something that feels fake and unappealing for no real benefit to the player.

On top of that anyone hearing about *any* game and expecting to jump right into the end-game from day 1 must be completely new to games or something. There's a reason that "bring me 10 wolf pelts" has been a trope for over 15 years now, and it has nothing to do with Eve.

At least Eve, more than probably any other game, lets you get to content that actually appears in its ads faster than any other MMO because there is literally nothing stopping a day 1 Frig pilot flying off into Null Sec and getting into trouble.
zMaile Anthar
Space Diggers
#5 - 2017-02-15 07:20:26 UTC
The NPE can have player-related content in its script without actually involving other players. Showing large wars between players ingame doesn't require another player to be there shooting at you. It may only require an explanation of the story, and pointers in the direction to go for that kind of experience. Perhaps integrating the corp-finder into the tutorial. There are more options than actually shooting at a player, or scripting 'player-like' interactions.

I wouldn't expect the new player to get deep into the content of Eve within the first few hours, but the current NPE doesn't even confirm that it exists in game, nor give a sense of scale or a player's role in such a war. That's the issue I feel that exists. A new player won't get involved in that experience in the first few hours, but they can should still get to see that it is very attainable, and something for them to actually want to work towards.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2017-02-15 07:30:21 UTC
See, I kind of have the reverse problem with the NPE, in that I feel it, and the way high sec works as well, keep pushing new players into 'I need level 1 in this and this and this so I can use my new battleship for missioning' instead of the emphasis of the right skills for the job. Now I understand that is a VERY hard thing to do, AND it is also a political move by CCP to not mention any specific Eve starter/University corp, like Eve-uni, Horde, Karmafleet, etc etc.


The NPE is light years better than it was and I am extremely happy about that. But it's a very difficult balance position it has to maintain, and I think what they have now is about as tenable a position as it can get

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Cade Windstalker
#7 - 2017-02-15 15:03:55 UTC
zMaile Anthar wrote:
The NPE can have player-related content in its script without actually involving other players. Showing large wars between players ingame doesn't require another player to be there shooting at you. It may only require an explanation of the story, and pointers in the direction to go for that kind of experience. Perhaps integrating the corp-finder into the tutorial. There are more options than actually shooting at a player, or scripting 'player-like' interactions.

I wouldn't expect the new player to get deep into the content of Eve within the first few hours, but the current NPE doesn't even confirm that it exists in game, nor give a sense of scale or a player's role in such a war. That's the issue I feel that exists. A new player won't get involved in that experience in the first few hours, but they can should still get to see that it is very attainable, and something for them to actually want to work towards.


I think a lot of what you're asking for here is actually best added to the Career Agents or as a revamp of that system, not as part of the initial NPE.

I also don't think there's any need for the NPE to be, basically, another advertisement for Eve or to try and push that down a new player's throat. "How to join/found a corp" is something that's perfectly reasonable to add. "Look at this 5 minute video of things other players have done instead of more ship flying lessons!" sounds kitschy and bad.
zMaile Anthar
Space Diggers
#8 - 2017-02-16 03:44:57 UTC
The video (or something else e.g. Aura speech) would be to show what they can do in this game, and introduce the concept of specialisation in a field so that a player may contribute to a group without needing to know everything (or even half) of the game.

Showing what other players have done is also a way to relate to a new player, because it's something another player has done, it's something a new player can see is possible to work towards.

However, this is getting into the specifics, whereas I'm more interested on discussing the over-arching idea that the NPE doesn't really project the vastness of the sandbox, because it leaves players feeling like it's an on-rails experience in a game that is completely the opposite.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#9 - 2017-02-16 05:09:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Trust me - compared to the "old" NPE, this is leaps and bounds ahead. It used to be you just got dumped in a station and had to fight your way out through the horde of waiting gankers... Oh wait, I was thinking of when I undocked from Jita 4-4 earlier...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Cade Windstalker
#10 - 2017-02-16 14:40:22 UTC
Specialization is where the Career agents come in, and that seems to be next on CCP's revamp train going through the NPE from start to finish.

There is no good way for a new player to be shown what other players have done without going out and experiencing the game. The best the NPE could do is tell them about it, and the number one rule of good tutorial design is show, don't tell. Get the player doing things and experimenting after you teach them basic controls.

As for the "on rails" thing, this is really how it has to be. I worked with new players for literally years in this game, and still do to an extent, and the number one issue the old NPE had was "okay, I did a thing, what now?". Players need to be shown the different pieces of the game in small digestible bites. If you just throw them out into the vastness of the world and tell them "Go forth and make your own destiny!" without any examples or little piecemeal "here are some of the things you can do" tutorials they're going to go "I have no idea what I want to do!" and log off to play something else.

A good analogy is learning to swim in a smaller pool before jumping into the big one so you don't get overwhelmed by the size and depth of your environment and end up drowning.
zMaile Anthar
Space Diggers
#11 - 2017-02-17 02:01:48 UTC
Quote:
Specialization is where the Career agents come in, and that seems to be next on CCP's revamp train going through the NPE from start to finish.

There is no good way for a new player to be shown what other players have done without going out and experiencing the game. The best the NPE could do is tell them about it, and the number one rule of good tutorial design is show, don't tell. Get the player doing things and experimenting after you teach them basic controls.

As for the "on rails" thing, this is really how it has to be. I worked with new players for literally years in this game, and still do to an extent, and the number one issue the old NPE had was "okay, I did a thing, what now?". Players need to be shown the different pieces of the game in small digestible bites. If you just throw them out into the vastness of the world and tell them "Go forth and make your own destiny!" without any examples or little piecemeal "here are some of the things you can do" tutorials they're going to go "I have no idea what I want to do!" and log off to play something else.

A good analogy is learning to swim in a smaller pool before jumping into the big one so you don't get overwhelmed by the size and depth of your environment and end up drowning.


I think you're right about the rails part. A tutorial does need to be on rails for all the points you make. Maybe i'm just worked up too much about the player's story because of my biases due to living in null. My proposed NPE would make high-sec people feel the way I currently do, so it'd just be reversing the tables so-to-speak.

My one disagreement is with this line though:

Quote:
The best the NPE could do is tell them about it, and the number one rule of good tutorial design is show, don't tell


The video isn't part of the tutorial (it isn't showing how to do something), but an broad overview of the game, to motivate the player to continue past the tutorial. If we manage to keep 10% of new players instead of 8%, but the tutorial takes an extra 30 minutes, I would say that's overall a good deal. So I guess I would argue that the NPE's priority would be retention rather than tutorial (though the latter is still very important).