These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Kyonoke] Contagion Tracking, Containment, Planning

Author
Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#581 - 2017-04-13 08:01:31 UTC
morion wrote:
so your all experts


Your one-liner isn't cool. Bugger off.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#582 - 2017-04-13 12:26:29 UTC
morion wrote:
so your all experts


Nope. And I never claimed to be.

And I was able to poke holes in this. I can only imagine what the actual experts like Little Fish are thinking out there.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#583 - 2017-04-13 13:00:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Also, no using 'because it's our way' as an excuse to keep acting and thinking the way you did, as soon as you identify the issue with it. Fix it!


That line, Mr. Egivand, is why the Federation and State are at war. From the State's point of view, the Federation is an aggressive, meddlesome entity trying to impose its view of how to "fix" "issues."

Any cultural trait the Caldari have had since even before the Raata Empire is, by default, a feature, not a bug. You (or me, or any outsider) attempting to convince them otherwise will cause them to dig in their heels and fight back. Nothing causes the Caldari to close ranks like an outsider meddling in their affairs.

I'm an Achur, so, similar cultural traits (without the anti-intellectual streak). And I'm of two minds whether it's even actually a problem. If I were a baseliner, I'd probably be considered a dissident or "someone to watch" for that alone.
Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#584 - 2017-04-13 13:20:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Also, no using 'because it's our way' as an excuse to keep acting and thinking the way you did, as soon as you identify the issue with it. Fix it!


That line, Mr. Egivand, is why the Federation and State are at war. From the State's point of view, the Federation is an aggressive, meddlesome entity trying to impose its view of how to "fix" "issues."

Any cultural cultural trait the Caldari have had since even before the Raata Empire is, by default, a feature, not a bug. You (or me, or any outsider) attempting to convince them otherwise will cause them to dig in their heels and fight back. Nothing causes the Caldari to close ranks like an outsider meddling in their affairs.

I'm an Achur, so, similar cultural traits (without the anti-intellectual streak). And I'm of two minds whether it's even actually a problem. If I were a baseliner, I'd probably be considered a dissident or "someone to watch" for that alone.


Except, in this case, the attitude of not questioning the authority about the dubiousness of the treatment does not just affect you and your own, or just the State (because if that were the case I would have just let it be), it is affecting everyone else, including potentially me and mine. Of course, I'm going to question it.

You have a flaw in your thinking, it's your problem whether you want to fix it or not. However, if that flaw is affecting everything else, that also becomes my problem.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#585 - 2017-04-13 13:38:22 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Except, in this case, the attitude of not questioning the authority about the dubiousness of the treatment does not just affect you and your own, or just the State (because if that were the case I would have just let it be), it is affecting everyone else, including potentially me and mine. Of course, I'm going to question it.

You have a flaw in your thinking, it's your problem whether you want to fix it or not. However, if that flaw is affecting everything else, that also becomes my problem.


I'll ... just wish you luck, then.

(I promise you they don't collectively care whether it affects you or not.)
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#586 - 2017-04-13 22:22:26 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

(I promise you they don't collectively care whether it affects you or not.)


I promise you, if Caldari intransigence and paranoia flares up badly enough to be everyone's problem, the CEP will care. Because the Empire is part of 'everyone', and the absolute last thing they want is the Empire finding any reason for common cause with the Federation against the State, even if it's only in the arena of political bickering.

You never know where being on the same side of empty bickering will lead, after all.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#587 - 2017-04-14 00:22:16 UTC
It's not an absolute, Arrendis. Just a really strong tendency.

... really, really strong.
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
#588 - 2017-04-14 00:58:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Morgana Tsukiyo
A good way of alerting the authorities of any percieved error, would be contacting them directly.

Join Project Transcendence.

Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#589 - 2017-04-14 06:40:56 UTC
Which has already been done. By quite a few people, I suspect.

I also suspect it doesn't actually get read or cared about.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#590 - 2017-04-14 14:09:21 UTC
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:
A good way of alerting the authorities of any percieved error, would be contacting them directly.


Thanks for assuming that wasn't done.
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
#591 - 2017-04-14 14:20:14 UTC
I find the current situation rather amuzing actually.

Here we are, the elite of the elite, powerful in ways that manking barely understand, objects of fear and awe in equal measure, owners of a fortune bigger than the production of entire systems, with the firepower to conquer and vanquish entire regions....

And yet, like any ordinary individual, we are part of a system that is bigger than us. A tiny drop on a vast ocean, thinking that we alone are capable of starting a tsunami.

A drop, no matter how shiny, is only this. A part of the whole.

We come and we go throughout the time, emerging and fading in the illusion conscience, of segregation, of beign apart.

Your frustrations come from your expectations. Expectations that involve an illusion of control, of beign able to do something and attribute the consequences to your actions.

As the Sleeper, Tekmahl, Talocan, Yan jung, and many others that came before us, we´re bound to fade and reemerge as something new.

Release the thought of control, ride the tides of the universe in action, feel the flow and obstruction and know that we are what can not be.

The Tengu description is quite appropriate for this ocasion.

Quote:
When we first saw the flock, we were surrounded, caught in a spectacle of stimuli. Brilliant colors, dancing lights, beautiful cacophonies, wafting ambrosia. Those birds surrounded us, each one a different shape, an altered species, a new wonder. I tried to follow a single bird, but my efforts were futile: Transformation is natural to their existence. Imagine it: an undulating mass, a changing mob, all those beasts partaking in wonderful transmogrification.

These were our augurs, our deliverers, our saviors. Standing amidst the flock, we should have feared their glory; instead, we drew hope. This moment is the first time I understood what it meant to be Caldari: Divinity in the flock, delivery in flux, one being, many changes.


- Janto Sitarbe, The Legendary Flock

Join Project Transcendence.

Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#592 - 2017-04-14 15:32:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Well, first, I'd like to refute one of your core assumptions:

Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:
Your frustrations come from your expectations. Expectations that involve an illusion of control, of beign able to do something and attribute the consequences to your actions.


My frustrations do not, in fact, come from any illusion of control. My frustrations do come from my expectations, though: my expectations of competence, of intelligence, and of responsibility on the part of those in power. Note: 'those in power' is an external group there. Because it's certainly not me. I have no control over any of the empires. I have no control over the SoCT. I have no control over any of this, and I haven't claimed, at any point, to think that I do.

So I'm not exactly sure where you're getting that whole 'an illusion of control' thing. I have, by design, control over a very small set of specific boxes. The survival of mankind and the safe development of medical technology ain't in those boxes. With regard to what is actually in those boxes, there is no illusion: I have control. My decisions are the ones that are final. With regard to literally everything else in the cluster, I do not have, nor do I claim, control.

And for the record, whether or not I blow up and die following any given undock? Not in my box.

On those matters, I may try to exert influence, I may attempt to effect the outcome in specific ways, but no, I do not have control. But from your other statement, I think it's pretty easy to see where you get your own misconceptions.

Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:

Here we are, the elite of the elite, powerful in ways that manking barely understand, objects of fear and awe in equal measure, owners of a fortune bigger than the production of entire systems, with the firepower to conquer and vanquish entire regions....

And yet, like any ordinary individual, we are part of a system that is bigger than us. A tiny drop on a vast ocean, thinking that we alone are capable of starting a tsunami.

A drop, no matter how shiny, is only this. A part of the whole.


You think we're the 'elite of the elite', that we have power 'in ways that mankind barely understands'. That's nonsense. You know what power we have? We have the power to kill. And keel killing. And keep killing. And I promise you, if there's any power mankind understands, it's the power of violence. We are humanity's ID, seemingly empowered to do... what, exactly? Lash out with violence for all eternity? @whee. There's some exciting crap, right there.

Violence is viscerally exciting, sure... but once you get past the adrenaline... no. Continued, repeated, endless violence... it's pretty damned dull, to be honest. How many of us get to a point where even dying is boring?

That's not power. That's hell. That's a living death, where nothing really matters and nothing really has the power to stir you to a semblance of actually living anymore. That's not being elite, either, it's being... alone.

Honestly, what the hell makes you think we're the elites of anything? With the exception of a very few, we're cut off from normal society, under strict controls by CONCORD on our behavior and even on just what we get to see around us. We exert, for all our grandiose claims, no real power over the cluster, no influence. The empires use us for an undying bloodsport to entertain their elites and channel the rage of the masses. Beyond that... they don't want to hear from us. The Inquest capsuleers can pat themselves on the back for their voting all they like, but ultimately, those resolutions are only as binding as the empires want to let them be. If the State decides tomorrow 'nah, not doing that 'release all the information' thing' there is nothing you can do about it.

And yes, capsuleers were instrumental in securiting the cure, in making sure it wasn't stolen or destroyed by terrorists on the Keepstar.. But you know what?

That had nothing to do with being capsuleers.

Nothing. Nothing whatsoever. That could've been any groupf of baseliners and they'd have had the same chances of pulling it off. Anyone use your jacks to hunt down Akira? Flush out the Vulture while you were in the pod?

So elite. So powerful.

Stop projecting your own assumptions and conceits on the rest of us.
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
#593 - 2017-04-14 16:14:57 UTC
Wanna grab a drink?

Join Project Transcendence.

Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.

Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#594 - 2017-04-14 22:49:02 UTC
Morgana Tsukiyo wrote:
Wanna grab a drink?


That has a history of getting me tasered.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
#595 - 2017-04-14 22:57:20 UTC
Index posts updated with the 'calls for investigation' article and today's article on Efu.

Again, my congratulations and thanks to Phoenix Naval Systems. Ms. Edios, without you and your personnel, we would not have done nearly so well aboard H4-RP4.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#596 - 2017-04-14 23:26:18 UTC
Interesting ... so 0410's a tailored counter. No wonder they were talking about it like an antidote. It like a key for switching a (horrifying) weapon off.
Morgana Tsukiyo
Samsara Dynamics
#597 - 2017-04-15 01:30:11 UTC
Arrendis wrote:

That has a history of getting me tasered.


Even more interesting. Where do i pick you up? Blink

Aria Jenneth wrote:

Interesting ... so 0410's a tailored counter. No wonder they were talking about it like an antidote. It like a key for switching a (horrifying) weapon off.


A tailored counter that was an advanced research against a weaponized variant under the scrutiny of an unknown agency that didn´t had acess to the pit and manipulated Caldari extremists to get some.

My oh my, who could be involved in this?

Absolutely no idea.

Join Project Transcendence.

Applied technology for the enhancement of human experience.

Doctor Valate
Delve Medical Services
#598 - 2017-04-15 07:20:01 UTC
I question the effectiveness of the sterilisation measures employed.

Blowing the infected areas out into the vacuum of space might have seemed like a good idea, and it might kill the active form of the Kyonoke agent, which can only survive a few hours without a host.

However, do remember that the Kyonoke agent is capable of persisting under extreme conditions for years, possibly even decades, in it's dormant form.

So, Genolution et. al. have blown the exposed areas out into space, with the potential to disturb via air currents, dormant Kyonoke agent particles, and surround the station with a cloud of them, allowing them to adhere to passing ships, or be intentionally collected by persons of nefarious intent.

And this seemed reasonable ?

I am somewhat doubtful that this will be the end of this particular outbreak.

Doctor Valerie Valate. Not to be confused with the other Valerie Valate.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#599 - 2017-04-15 14:25:29 UTC
Doctor Valate wrote:
I am somewhat doubtful that this will be the end of this particular outbreak.


Well-- at least we have the water to pour on any spot fires, now. Unless someone goes and re-engineers it to require a different key, anyway (an effort we might be able to detect because: containment breach, then spot fire).

So it probably really is a bioweapon. Really that's not very much of a surprise; it's a little too strange and a little too perfect at what it does to just be some random organism we tripped over.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#600 - 2017-04-15 16:35:13 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

Well-- at least we have the water to pour on any spot fires, now. Unless someone goes and re-engineers it to require a different key, anyway (an effort we might be able to detect because: containment breach, then spot fire).


Which will be easier because... wait for it... all of the information about 0410 has to be released! Honestly, sometimes I love the irony of humanity.

And for the record, no, I'm not saying that transparency is a bad thing. I very much agree with that measure and think you guys were right to pass it. At the same time, I'm kind of throwing up my hands in a 'yep, we're still boned' kind of way. Sometimes, it seems like we can't win for losing.

You just gotta laugh, you know?