These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Kyonoke] Contagion Tracking, Containment, Planning

Author
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#521 - 2017-04-11 18:48:22 UTC
I'll be honest. When a pedant is badgering people for entertainment, it's probably best to ignore her.

This isn't to say Arrendis's concerns are unreasonable; they are reasonable enough, in abstract. It's just that she's intractible because the argument is her objective, not the resolution of it.

Anyway, whatever else transpires in this thread, we'll see what comes of the Inquest in coming days.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#522 - 2017-04-11 18:50:53 UTC
We pretty much expended the last of our actual decision-making power when we voted not to obliterate your test subject collection, Arrendis.

The Inquest's over; our authority's gone. We're just a bunch of people under quarantine. Trapped. Someone else is calling the shots right now. I have no idea who. It's not like they're still briefing us.

By the way, the researcher who tested me told me that a negative test left open the chance (very likely, I think, considering I'd been exposed about a thousand times) that I was in the incubation period. I thought I said something about that? So, yeah, the scanner probably needs a minimum concentration of some kind. I'm just not sure what that would be, or whether it applies to specks not currently occupying a person. Maybe a single speck on a tabletop is detectable, but, that seems like a little too much to hope for.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#523 - 2017-04-11 19:13:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Makoto Priano wrote:
I'll be honest. When a pedant is badgering people for entertainment, it's probably best to ignore her.


I didn't say I was doing it for entertainment. I said it was fun. You should always try to love what you do. If you don't love it, don't do it.

Quote:

This isn't to say Arrendis's concerns are unreasonable; they are reasonable enough, in abstract. It's just that she's intractible because the argument is her objective, not the resolution of it.


Nor is this in any way, shape, or form, true. You only think it is because you have never once actually sought resolution of an argument with me, only capitulation. I'm more than happy to come to consensus; ask Samira, Miz, or even Aldrith. We've certainly had issues that we resolved in the past. I am only truly intractable when compromise is unconscionable.

For example: I personally would prefer at least ten to thirty years of controlled testing for something this important, which will see this immediate and widespread a level of demand across the entire cluster. Elmund's suggested a shorter testing period that's still at least 90 times longer than what was used before this stuff got pumped out in massive amounts to ship off to the Quarantine zones. I'm willing to work with that. It's not optimal, but it's better than what you've wrought.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#524 - 2017-04-11 19:18:22 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
We pretty much expended the last of our actual decision-making power when we voted not to obliterate your test subject collection, Arrendis.

The Inquest's over; our authority's gone. We're just a bunch of people under quarantine. Trapped. Someone else is calling the shots right now. I have no idea who. It's not like they're still briefing us.


Willing to lay you odds none of the decisions being made are being made without heavy reliance on the advice of the corporate scientists stuck in the Keepstar with you, Aria. And they are the ones I referred to as 'compromised'. They should not be involved in the deicsion-making process. They should be a resource to provide data, not advice.

And the very fact that this stuff was rushed off only hours after the Inquest's formal conclusion speaks volumes for how deliberate and rational the current decision-making process is.

Quote:

By the way, the researcher who tested me told me that a negative test left open the chance (very likely, I think, considering I'd been exposed about a thousand times) that I was in the incubation period. I thought I said something about that? So, yeah, the scanner probably needs a minimum concentration of some kind. I'm just not sure what that would be, or whether it applies to specks not currently occupying a person. Maybe a single speck on a tabletop is detectable, but, that seems like a little too much to hope for.


So the scanner leaves open the possibility that someone's in the incubation period. Which makes it about as useful as 'are you exhibiting symptoms?'. Yep. Wondrous breakthrough there.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#525 - 2017-04-11 19:26:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Arrendis wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
We pretty much expended the last of our actual decision-making power when we voted not to obliterate your test subject collection, Arrendis.

The Inquest's over; our authority's gone. We're just a bunch of people under quarantine. Trapped. Someone else is calling the shots right now. I have no idea who. It's not like they're still briefing us.


Willing to lay you odds none of the decisions being made are being made without heavy reliance on the advice of the corporate scientists stuck in the Keepstar with you, Aria. And they are the ones I referred to as 'compromised'. They should not be involved in the deicsion-making process. They should be a resource to provide data, not advice.

And the very fact that this stuff was rushed off only hours after the Inquest's formal conclusion speaks volumes for how deliberate and rational the current decision-making process is.


Point, maybe.

Quote:
Quote:

By the way, the researcher who tested me told me that a negative test left open the chance (very likely, I think, considering I'd been exposed about a thousand times) that I was in the incubation period. I thought I said something about that? So, yeah, the scanner probably needs a minimum concentration of some kind. I'm just not sure what that would be, or whether it applies to specks not currently occupying a person. Maybe a single speck on a tabletop is detectable, but, that seems like a little too much to hope for.


So the scanner leaves open the possibility that someone's in the incubation period. Which makes it about as useful as 'are you exhibiting symptoms?'. Yep. Wondrous breakthrough there.


No-- it also lets you ask tables whether they're exhibiting symptoms. It's definitely able to pick up high levels of contamination in the environment. Question is whether it's able to pick up medium or low levels.

I don't get the sense there's a minimum concentration greater than "a speck" needed to cause the disease (at least in "basic" form), so, the scanner's usefulness is maybe a little limited until it can pick up just one-- unless, that is, the goal is to distinguish a Koyonoke outbreak from other stuff early on so you can snap a quarantine into place. That, it might be pretty useful for.
Thomas en Gravonere
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#526 - 2017-04-11 19:29:07 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Mr. Gravonere?

You do realize that one of the founding members of ARC is IKAME, right? Itsukame-Zainou? And that Phoenix Naval Systems, a State-loyal capsuleer corporation serving as an associate group in and security contractor to ARC, was instrumental to our joint efforts?

(some minor edits to adjust to Mr. Gravonere's edits.)


More than aware of the fact.

I just chose to make a split between the state and the capsuleer in order to offend the state.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#527 - 2017-04-11 19:33:46 UTC
Can confirm, she can come to a consensus with only slight behavioral adjustment through electric shock therapy. At this point I don't think it'll be necessary, as I largely find myself in agreement with her.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#528 - 2017-04-11 20:02:04 UTC
Thomas en Gravonere wrote:

More than aware of the fact.

I just chose to make a split between the state and the capsuleer in order to offend the state.


Let me know if the CEP responds, mm?

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Thomas en Gravonere
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#529 - 2017-04-11 21:18:32 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Thomas en Gravonere wrote:

More than aware of the fact.

I just chose to make a split between the state and the capsuleer in order to offend the state.


Let me know if the CEP responds, mm?


Don't care much for a response, I'm afraid - and I think you know well where the insult was targeted.

Besides, as one Ms. Lagann put it - ARC is not solely a State organization.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#530 - 2017-04-11 21:32:42 UTC
Thomas en Gravonere wrote:
Makoto Priano wrote:
Mr. Gravonere?

You do realize that one of the founding members of ARC is IKAME, right? Itsukame-Zainou? And that Phoenix Naval Systems, a State-loyal capsuleer corporation serving as an associate group in and security contractor to ARC, was instrumental to our joint efforts?

(some minor edits to adjust to Mr. Gravonere's edits.)


More than aware of the fact.

I just chose to make a split between the state and the capsuleer in order to offend the state.


We'd have to care about your opinion to get offended, mate.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#531 - 2017-04-11 21:35:53 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
We'd have to care about your opinion to get offended, mate.


There are always those quick to leap at any chance to be offended, Pieter.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#532 - 2017-04-11 21:43:00 UTC
Thomas en Gravonere wrote:


Don't care much for a response, I'm afraid - and I think you know well where the insult was targeted.

Besides, as one Ms. Lagann put it - ARC is not solely a State organization.


Mm. Thank you for educating me on what ARC is and is not.

Arrendis? You might need to do some more training. This one's not up to your high standards.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#533 - 2017-04-11 22:21:32 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
We'd have to care about your opinion to get offended, mate.


There are always those quick to leap at any chance to be offended, Pieter.


And many more who live to offend.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#534 - 2017-04-11 22:51:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Arrendis
Makoto Priano wrote:

Arrendis? You might need to do some more training. This one's not up to your high standards.


Training WIdot against badposting is like training DK against hating the Federation. I love 'em, just the same.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
There are always those quick to leap at any chance to be offended, Pieter.


And many more who live to offend.


Oh, I think the numbers are about the same. The offended just don't speak up as much in public.
Oland Jan
Doomheim
#535 - 2017-04-11 23:25:04 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
A brief statement for those deriding my statements on FIO as unsupportable bias, allow me to clarify.
We do lack definitive proof...
My intent was not to berate you, as I appreciate much of the work you have done. I also didn’t intend to imply that your allegations were unsupportable. Only that, and by your own addition, they are allegations.
Thomas en Gravonere
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#536 - 2017-04-11 23:44:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Thomas en Gravonere
Makoto Priano wrote:

Mm. Thank you for educating me on what ARC is and is not.

Arrendis? You might need to do some more training. This one's not up to your high standards.


So what is the verdict then? Branching between empires, or supporting one?

AD: It appears that I got some clarification on the subject of differentiating between associates and the core organization. Apologies - it's been quite some time since I've dealt with more rigid structuring.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#537 - 2017-04-12 01:40:07 UTC
Arrendis wrote:


So the scanner leaves open the possibility that someone's in the incubation period. Which makes it about as useful as 'are you exhibiting symptoms?'. Yep. Wondrous breakthrough there.


However, we didn't use to be able to *any* concentration of Kyonoke prions. As in, at all. The only way to know whether anyone is infected is when someone starts to exhibit the shivers and rapidly deteriorate.

At least give them credit for actually managing to detect the prion before someone starts having seizures and show black spots all over themselves. It's a first step at least.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Arrendis
TK Corp
#538 - 2017-04-12 01:51:54 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:

However, we didn't use to be able to *any* concentration of Kyonoke prions. As in, at all. The only way to know whether anyone is infected is when someone starts to exhibit the shivers and rapidly deteriorate.

At least give them credit for actually managing to detect the prion before someone starts having seizures and show black spots all over themselves. It's a first step at least.


That's fair, sure.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#539 - 2017-04-12 19:34:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
So, here's a thing:

Someone just showed me a data file-- it looks like there might be quarantine relief inbound, at least for us capsuleers. Specialized medical pods?

If I understood the design and proposed use right, we'd basically be sealed in full life-support mode for at least a week or so-- drip-fed nutrients, full catheterization, the whole bit. They'll put us in, then give the hull a light toasting with plasma on the way out to get rid of any contamination.

The thing's fitted with more than the usual set of medical scanners. Basically, they'd keep us in there in sensory deprivation under really intense monitoring, senses shunted off; we'd be able to use our ships, but, probably, getting podded would be discouraged, I'd guess.

And, they're equipped with the scanners designed to pick up specks.

I guess they figure if we can stand having scanners and a bunch of medical expert systems, presumably backed up by actual medical experts, all over us for days on end without developing a detectable knot of specks in the brain stem or excreting anything that raises an alarm, we're probably okay.

Not sure how that interacts with concerns about the cure, but, I guess if it's nanite-based they can probably filter it out or switch it off when they're sure we're clean.

... Interesting.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#540 - 2017-04-12 19:37:56 UTC
So potentially carrying around sufficiently large samples of the speck so anyone with a SeBo and sufficient firepower can go harvest to their heart's desire? Magnificent quarantine measures. Absolutely magnificent.

Was New Eden always this stupid and I just didn't notice, or is this a new thing?