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Intergalactic Summit

 
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[Kyonoke] Contagion Tracking, Containment, Planning

Author
Evi Polevhia
Chiranjivi
#321 - 2017-04-08 17:10:18 UTC
I love the second guessing being done by people who are not there of people who are there. Really drives home a few important facts about Capsuleers.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#322 - 2017-04-08 17:20:53 UTC
It's more questioning that they're locking these procedures behind amongst other things a massive paywall - not payable in ISK by the way - and other things ensuring that only a few get to be part of it, when it's affecting potentially all of New Eden. That really drives home a few important facts about the powers that be.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#323 - 2017-04-08 18:01:26 UTC
Well ... it looks like we really might not die.

A cure's assembled. Side effects so far, from experience: very uncomfortable to receive, causes dizziness.

Oh, and we found the saboteur: our somewhat dubious project director was apparently a clonejacking victim.

The vote to not glass ourselves and the cure was a little one-sided.

Maybe ... this will be okay.

If all goes well, it may be a couple days, but, unless something else awful happens, it looks like we'll make it through. It's not probably going to be as simple as just casting a vote, but, it looks like this will be all right. For once ... maybe ... we aren't just "gods of destruction."
Kasuko Merin
Anshar Incorporated
#324 - 2017-04-08 18:07:49 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
It's more questioning that they're locking these procedures behind amongst other things a massive paywall - not payable in ISK by the way - and other things ensuring that only a few get to be part of it, when it's affecting potentially all of New Eden. That really drives home a few important facts about the powers that be.


What are you going on about? Paywalls? Did I miss a news article?

It was worth it. All of it. Every single second.

Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#325 - 2017-04-08 19:14:49 UTC
Not everything is in the news.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#326 - 2017-04-08 19:51:38 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
A cure has been sourced and is in production, and our associates in space and in the station are attempting to ensure security as we attempt to completely secure the facility before conclusion of the Inquest.


A cure that's gonna be available in sufficent quantity to purge the Keepstar where the cure's being produced?

Honestly, who didn't see this coming? Dire warnings about how freakin' stupid it is to put all your eggs in one basket, and criticisms of single-point-of-failure systems aside, even the vaccine for this thing makes people nutjobs. And now the cure's under security lockdown because hey, guess what, everyone where the cure is is gonna die, and they turned off all of the communications systems. Wouldn't want anyone transmitting the cure to other production facilities, I guess.

It's times this that I really think we should've just blown up that keepstar before the scientists started arriving.

Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
#327 - 2017-04-08 20:02:16 UTC
Notably, Arrendis, members of the staff who tried to escape were gunned down on the docks, and the clonejacker was caught via detection of innervation issues arising from the process. Significant strides have been made to secure the facility, and reliable parties have been used to corset the existing forces aboard the station.

I think we're going to manage.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

James Syagrius
Chatelain Auxiliary Response
Intaki-Business Logistics Union
#328 - 2017-04-08 20:33:29 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
...

The unfortunate thing is that we are not able to vote against resolutions, excepting that we support another; essentially, it's not A or Not-A and B or Not-B, but A or B. Were it possible, the ARC coordination group did not like either act, and would have rebuffed them both. However, it may be necessary to undertake extreme measures to eliminate the Kyonoke pathogen, especially if we are unable to secure Akira Kasaras before 'Vulture' does. The unfortunate and brutal necessity of preserving the ability to act decisively compelled us to this course of action, despite our desire to ensure transparency.

As such, while we will be unable to ensure transparency by the major powers, ARC will be providing a full update once the Inquest closes, with all available intelligence, rationales, and general developments of each day.
While I thank you for your measured response, something about this whole situation smells.

Jaret Victorian wrote:
As you may imagine, operating under such extreme conditions may be quite stressful. This is why it is important to not let nationalism take over and stay calm.
I would imagine it is. You gave a very thorough yet concise description of the situation... as you see it. But you will forgive me if I don't take you at your word. I hope you prove me wrong, by practicing what you preach.
James Syagrius
Chatelain Auxiliary Response
Intaki-Business Logistics Union
#329 - 2017-04-08 20:36:08 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Not everything is in the news.
A truer statement was never uttered.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#330 - 2017-04-08 23:03:52 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Notably, Arrendis, members of the staff who tried to escape were gunned down on the docks, and the clonejacker was caught via detection of innervation issues arising from the process. Significant strides have been made to secure the facility, and reliable parties have been used to corset the existing forces aboard the station.

I think we're going to manage.


Not for nothing, Makoto, but on a facility of that size, there's really no way to be completely sure that someone hasn't slipped off into the dark parts of the structure, bearing the pathogen in their own system. Not in such a short amount of time. That's one of the reasons quarantines exist: you wait long enough that if there was anyone still infected, they'd be nice and visible and busy with the process of dying.

So how long does something the size of a Keepstar remain quarantined to ensure there aren't still carriers secreted away in the bowels of the structure, stuffed into a cryotube somewhere to try to wait out the authorities? How thinly do security forces have to spread to comb every nook and cranny of the structure, knowing that the more thinly-spread they are, the more likely they are to be insufficient to deal with a small, fortified group of armed maniacs with a biological weapon who can hit them from ambush? After all, if they don't spread out, the search takes longer, it's easier for a small group to move from place to place to evade the search, and if the searchers do get exposed, there's more chance of it getting back ot the general population of the Keepstar.

That's not a search you conduct in a matter of hours, or probably even days. Not if you want to be sure. Not if you want the rest o the cluster to believe you're sure. And until that's done, the whole thing has to stay locked down. Which means none of that cure is getting out. Heck, the cure can't even be produced until the facilitiy can be guaranteed clear, because again, it needs to be trusted.

Start producing the cure before the facility can be credibly and thoroughly searched top to bottom, and the next move by the terrorists is a no-brainer: start spreading rumors that the cure has been tainted, that they got to it before security caught them. Hello wide-spread panic! So the cure gets delayed... because everyone thought it was a great idea to introduce a single point-of-failure to a system that didn't need one.

And for the record: suddenly there's a cure? Three whole days of collaboration—much of it in conferences—and there's a cure already tested and independently verified by completely uninvolved parties? The long-term side effects are understood? The virus is definitely completely gone, and won't flare up again in a year, turning all those 'cured' people into carriers to deliver bioweapons to all the places they've spread out to?

Do the rest of us a favor while you're all locked up there: take another two weeks, heck, take a month, and solve all the problems of cluster-wide peace and resource management.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#331 - 2017-04-08 23:54:22 UTC
It wasn't us that found it, though, except in the most literal sense.

It was freshly discovered, but mostly untested, when we arrived. The Inquest had just also caught a bad case of saboteur, who was also, himself, infected.
Auriga Menkalinan
Chatelain Auxiliary Response
Intaki-Business Logistics Union
#332 - 2017-04-09 00:06:48 UTC
Do the Servant Sisters have any representatives at the inquest? Given their humanitarian mission, their low profile throughout this whole saga has been bothering me.

Apologies for the idle question and my thanks to all those putting themselves at risk to help.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#333 - 2017-04-09 01:59:38 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
It was freshly discovered, but mostly untested, when we arrived.


That sounds a whole lot like 'no, we have no idea what the long-term side effects are, let's unleash this on millions of people and watch things be exponentially worse in a year!'
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#334 - 2017-04-09 02:36:17 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
It was freshly discovered, but mostly untested, when we arrived.


That sounds a whole lot like 'no, we have no idea what the long-term side effects are, let's unleash this on millions of people and watch things be exponentially worse in a year!'

You weren't there. You haven't seen the amount of data, reports and patient dossiers there is. It is huge. I've personally seen my colleague Morwen Lagann go ahead with vaccination procedure, and it is well within the abilities of SOCT to establish a quarantine in the station environment. The situation is as secure as it can be.
Auriga Menkalinan wrote:
Do the Servant Sisters have any representatives at the inquest? Given their humanitarian mission, their low profile throughout this whole saga has been bothering me.

We haven't encountered any SOE delegates.
Arrendis
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#335 - 2017-04-09 03:06:09 UTC
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
It was freshly discovered, but mostly untested, when we arrived.


That sounds a whole lot like 'no, we have no idea what the long-term side effects are, let's unleash this on millions of people and watch things be exponentially worse in a year!'


You weren't there. You haven't seen the amount of data, reports and patient dossiers there is. It is huge. I've personally seen my colleague Morwen Lagann go ahead with vaccination procedure, and it is well within the abilities of SOCT to establish a quarantine in the station environment. The situation is as secure as it can be.


No, I wasn't there. But the cure was just recently found, right? So: what are the long-term side effects? Do you know? If so, how do you know?

What are the long-term side-effects of the vaccine, for that matter? A vaccine is a very different thing from a cure, so: is what was found a cure, ie: something that will benefit those already infected, or a vaccine, which prevents contracting the disease in the first place? Is there now a vaccine and a cure?

Because really, especially in the case of a vaccine, if you don't know the long-term side effects, then you don't know if this will actually prevent outbreaks, or just transform people into carriers, where the virus can ride along until the protection weakens after a period of time. Because knowing the long-term effects is important before letting people out into circulation again. A Keepstar has what... 130 million people on it? And obviously, they're not people who'll never travel through space. How dispersed will those people be in a year? Five years? Ten?

If there's a long-term exposure risk, how many people will they be putting at risk?

And if you're going to claim the Society has information on the potential side effects and efficacy of cure and/or vaccine 5-10 years down the road... where did they get that data? Who have they been vaccinating and repeatedly exposing to the plague? Right now, there's a lot of hype and patting of onesselves on the back, but just speaking as an engineer, the degree of scientific rigor and safety procedure being applied here falls just barely above the level of scientific rigor applied to Theology Council rulings.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#336 - 2017-04-09 06:25:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Hee ... well, it's maybe not something we should go blithely walking out by shuttle even after receiving, even if I very strongly feel like doing that exactly. The plague is still here, after all, even if our bodies aren't safe environments for it. It'll probably be a while before, especially, the basic form of the speck is fully removed from the environment.

It seems the bodies of treated persons have some use in manufacturing and spreading the cure to others. I wonder if the medical teams here would have use for mine if I jump away?

Basically, Ms.Culome, it's not exactly a normal vaccine; rather, it's a treatment, I think probably nanite based, that cleanses the body of specks and sticks around to prevent the subject picking up more.

First-generation administration is uncomforable, but nothing we don't already experience as capsuleers. ("Start intubation" are slightly alarming words to be surprised by while lying on a procedure table. In the researchers' defense, they were kind if in a rush.) (I apologize if that was maybe more information than was wanted.)

Side effects ... it's a little hard to say. I don't think it'll follow me through a clone jump, but, at least, neither should any nasty malformed proteins be getting themselves copied along with the rest of my neurochemistry.

I think we'll wait a little longer before trying such things; the cure cleanses the body only over time.

Still, I get to see home again! I'd kind of given up on ever getting to do such a thing, myself, that is, as this version of me. I really thought I was going to be dead by now.

Edit:

By the way, Ms. Culome, you were right, along with Miz: the authority directly leading the Inquest did indeed know exactly what he was doing-- which was to intentionally undermine the Inquest while passing irregularities off as incompetence. Since it was a clonejacking, any damage to the victim's reputation was presumably irrelevant.

... I hope the real Doctor still has a recoverable backup somewhere.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#337 - 2017-04-09 09:31:59 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
the cure was just recently found, right?


There is another possibility here, Arrendis, one that raises more questions.

Maybe, this cure has not been just recently found. It has merely been recently announced.

That the persons behind this cure, have had that cure for years, or decades even, and have only chosen to reveal it now, because it is politically expedient.

That is, they gain some political benefit right now, for presenting this cure to the wider New Eden community.

Smoke And Mirrors.

Now, if they had a cure, then there are two possibilities - they either have been weaponising it themselves, or expecting others to weaponise it. Both of which raise further questions, regarding how this cure has been developed. What, or rather who, was this tested on, hmm ?

As for the long-term effects, well. How about this possibility:

Take political advantage of a Kyonoke outbreak, and announce cure A, which you know has some long-term detrimental effects, and release it to the rest of the cluster. For your own citizens, you give them cure B, which you know has no long-term detrimental effects.

This weakens everyone else, while your own peoples are unaffected.

Smoke and Mirrors, Arrendis.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#338 - 2017-04-09 10:09:44 UTC
That is why the last resolution is in place - we will get all research data.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#339 - 2017-04-09 10:19:11 UTC
Jaret Victorian wrote:
That is why the last resolution is in place - we will get all research data.


And you are confident that all the research data is entirely legitimate ? That it relates to actual experiments and research that was conducted ? That none of this data is a simple fabrication to conceal decades of research, and suggest the research was carried out over a period of just a few weeks instead ?

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.

Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#340 - 2017-04-09 10:34:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaret Victorian
That is why we amended it to include third party audition of the data ;) still, I believe Makoto Priano will be able to provide more details.