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[Kyonoke] Contagion Tracking, Containment, Planning
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TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#181 - 2017-03-12 03:55:25 UTC
Doctor Valate wrote:
Hmm, a quick scribble calculation, and the infection rate is... oh.

Well, I think we can see why they weren't letting any supplies into the nanoshield dome. 25% fatalities thus far. At that rate, there won't be anyone left within a week or two.

Still, there is no excuse for no orders or contact from the authorities for a month. Isolation in this kind of situation creates paranoia, and paranoia results in people doing stupid things.


Doc , i don't know much about the Kyonoke pathogen , i thought i read you could have the pathogen , for quite sometime before any symptoms showed. Soon as you showed signs of illness due to Kyonoke , death came very quickly. If that's the case, wouldn't it take much longer than one or two weeks.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#182 - 2017-03-12 05:45:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
TomHorn wrote:
Doc , i don't know much about the Kyonoke pathogen , i thought i read you could have the pathogen , for quite sometime before any symptoms showed. Soon as you showed signs of illness due to Kyonoke , death came very quickly. If that's the case, wouldn't it take much longer than one or two weeks.


It depends on which form of the pathogen you have, pilot. "Advanced" Kyonoke is virus-like, and historically kills in a matter of hours. The strain we're seeing now might be a little less immediately deadly, though specifics are hard to come by, as are explanations of how this could have happened.

The "basic" form is more like a prion. It's a mass of protein like a prion, is durable like a prion, and kills like a prion-- just, again, quite a bit faster than most prions, causing death within a period measured in months.

Presumably, if you're in an environment infected with both basic and advanced Kyonoke, the advanced will almost certainly get you before the basic does. Eventually the advanced will die off, once the population's exhausted, leaving the basic waiting around for whoever wanders in next.

Uh-- about the "leaker," before: finding this person is probably pretty easy. It'll likely be one of the marines or peacekeepers who were inside the city trying to keep order when the nanoshield went up. Either that, or someone who got hold of a bit of working kit from a dead or dying soldier. Either way, it's someone inside the quarantine zone.

Considering that this person is apparently operating without orders, and is probably thoroughly doomed, it's a little hard to blame them for wanting their story told.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#183 - 2017-03-12 07:59:56 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Another of those 'updates' that barely merits the term.


"several more of the group commenting that the treatment of protestors by State Peacekeepers was "uncivilized, barbaric and shameful" after it was revealed that tear gas and non-lethal ballistics have been used to disperse crowds"

As opposed to what ? Slaver hounds, live ammunition, orbital strikes ?

What does the Federation do to disperse rioters ?

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Aradina Varren
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#184 - 2017-03-12 09:13:55 UTC
They provide free cakes and sandwiches cut into little triangles to pacify them.

Feels Pretty Soft to Me.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#185 - 2017-03-12 09:16:45 UTC
It's chilling that even when the report says "protesters", everyone immediately starts assuming "rioters". These are not the same thing in any reasonable society.
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#186 - 2017-03-12 09:46:43 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
It's chilling that even when the report says "protesters", everyone immediately starts assuming "rioters"


Well, there was that fish-throwing incident the other day, where it was stated that "The incident and ensuing riot resulted in more than a thousand arrests, along with the use of tear gas and non-lethal riot control weaponry by State Peacekeepers."

So, they are using tear gas and non-lethal weaponry on rioters. What would the Federation prefer they use on the rioters ?

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Rossanjiin Eskeitan
Guri Raiders
#187 - 2017-03-12 12:52:58 UTC
Aradina Varren wrote:
They provide free cakes and sandwiches cut into little triangles to pacify them.


Don't forget the dildos.

Oh, no...wait...my mistake. Diana Kim has that covered. Maybe someone should notify her that her expertise is needed?
TomHorn
Horn Brothers Holdings Inc.
#188 - 2017-03-12 15:30:28 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
TomHorn wrote:
Doc , i don't know much about the Kyonoke pathogen , i thought i read you could have the pathogen , for quite sometime before any symptoms showed. Soon as you showed signs of illness due to Kyonoke , death came very quickly. If that's the case, wouldn't it take much longer than one or two weeks.


It depends on which form of the pathogen you have, pilot. "Advanced" Kyonoke is virus-like, and historically kills in a matter of hours. The strain we're seeing now might be a little less immediately deadly, though specifics are hard to come by, as are explanations of how this could have happened.

The "basic" form is more like a prion. It's a mass of protein like a prion, is durable like a prion, and kills like a prion-- just, again, quite a bit faster than most prions, causing death within a period measured in months.

Presumably, if you're in an environment infected with both basic and advanced Kyonoke, the advanced will almost certainly get you before the basic does. Eventually the advanced will die off, once the population's exhausted, leaving the basic waiting around for whoever wanders in next.

Uh-- about the "leaker," before: finding this person is probably pretty easy. It'll likely be one of the marines or peacekeepers who were inside the city trying to keep order when the nanoshield went up. Either that, or someone who got hold of a bit of working kit from a dead or dying soldier. Either way, it's someone inside the quarantine zone.

Considering that this person is apparently operating without orders, and is probably thoroughly doomed, it's a little hard to blame them for wanting their story told.


Thank you for the reply Aria.

Still think the leaked footage from the combat holocam of the State peacekeeper came from outside the nano shield. If footage was leaked by someone within the nano shield , guess doesn't really matter.
Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#189 - 2017-03-12 15:33:03 UTC
A year ago, I started development on a simulator for predicting the spread of various pathogens, computer viruses, nanites, etc. within Origin, and for simulating the likely effects of an outbreak and of countermeasures. I've got a somewhat functional prototype, and even though development is far from complete, the development of the crisis in Myrskaa is sadly all too predictable.

Development on the simulator has stood still for months, but the Kyonoke crisis prompted me to resume working on it. But I'm really hoping the crisis will be over by the time development is complete, for it probably will take at least a year before it's finished.

Coordination Channel for Consolidated Space Rescue Cooperation

Open Letter to the Aidonis Foundation Directorate
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#190 - 2017-03-12 16:50:23 UTC
TomHorn wrote:
Thank you for the reply Aria.

Still think the leaked footage from the combat holocam of the State peacekeeper came from outside the nano shield. If footage was leaked by someone within the nano shield , guess doesn't really matter.


I originally wasn't sure, but take a look at this bit from the report:

Quote:
Narrated by a muffled voice speaking traditional Napanii, the footage also explains that those inside the quarantine zone were cut off from the outside world completely on February 16th, and that there has been no contact or issue of orders from the Caldari administration since the confirmation of the presence of Kyonoke almost a month ago. The unidentified voice also claims that the death toll inside the nanodome has skyrocketed, with more than eight and a half million deaths confirmed since the quarantine lockdown.


It's a little subtle, but the awareness of stuff going on inside, particularly the lack of contact or orders and the specifics on confirmed death toll, coupled with the lack of reference to stuff going on outside, suggests an inside point of view. Then there's the muffling of the voice, as though covered with a cloth, or a mask. Trying to filter the air so as not to get sick.

It's from inside. Poor soul.
Doctor Valate
Delve Medical Services
#191 - 2017-03-12 17:15:14 UTC
TomHorn wrote:
Doctor Valate wrote:
Hmm, a quick scribble calculation, and the infection rate is... oh.

Well, I think we can see why they weren't letting any supplies into the nanoshield dome. 25% fatalities thus far. At that rate, there won't be anyone left within a week or two.

Still, there is no excuse for no orders or contact from the authorities for a month. Isolation in this kind of situation creates paranoia, and paranoia results in people doing stupid things.


Doc , i don't know much about the Kyonoke pathogen , i thought i read you could have the pathogen , for quite sometime before any symptoms showed. Soon as you showed signs of illness due to Kyonoke , death came very quickly. If that's the case, wouldn't it take much longer than one or two weeks.


The city hashad a population of some 36 million. One, just one, infected individual caused over a million cases within 5 days.

8.5 million confirmed infected individuals (now deceased)... there's just no way that all of them were 100% biosecurely handled.

Every soul within that nanodome is probably infected by now, and with no known treatment or cure, the outlook is grim. Very grim.

Doctor Valerie Valate. Not to be confused with the other Valerie Valate.
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#192 - 2017-03-12 18:39:42 UTC
Well it turns out the footage was "heavily edited" and everything is actually just fine.

Any protesters that got fired for speaking out probably deserves their new life as unemployed riff raff too, I'm sure.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#193 - 2017-03-13 02:43:00 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Well it turns out the footage was "heavily edited" and everything is actually just fine.

Any protesters that got fired for speaking out probably deserves their new life as unemployed riff raff too, I'm sure.


Until we get the story from both sides, not just the Megas, I say we reserve judgement on the protestors.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Aradina Varren
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#194 - 2017-03-13 03:01:51 UTC
Protesting a quarantine is pointless. I'm not sure what they hoped to accomplish. Surely the footage, real or fake, would show people why the quarantine is so strict. That's what kyonoke did to one city. If any of the quarantines are broken for any reason, it'll get far, far worse than that.

I don't envy the CEP. No matter what happens here, they'll get the blame for it. The Scope seems to want that.

Feels Pretty Soft to Me.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#195 - 2017-03-13 03:16:32 UTC
Aradina Varren wrote:
Protesting a quarantine is pointless. I'm not sure what they hoped to accomplish. Surely the footage, real or fake, would show people why the quarantine is so strict. That's what kyonoke did to one city. If any of the quarantines are broken for any reason, it'll get far, far worse than that.

I don't envy the CEP. No matter what happens here, they'll get the blame for it. The Scope seems to want that.


It's a media thing. It's never about the truth and all about the agenda and the viewership.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#196 - 2017-03-13 03:24:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
Well it turns out the footage was "heavily edited" and everything is actually just fine.

Any protesters that got fired for speaking out probably deserves their new life as unemployed riff raff too, I'm sure.


Until we get the story from both sides, not just the Megas, I say we reserve judgement on the protestors.


And the megas, really.

A note for critics from the Republic and Federation: the Caldari State doesn't recognize "rights of freedom of speech and expression," doesn't pretend to, and never has. It tolerates dissenters ("jaalan") grumpily at the best of times.

These are not the best of times.

Really, just empowering employers to terminate contracts seems mostly like CEP-speak for "All right, we get it, but you're going to have to trust us on this. Back to work, and no more nonsense." It's a pretty measured response, considering the level of defiance shown.

On the flip-side, there's also no real tradition of unbiased journalism in the State. It's maybe a little arguable whether there's such a tradition anywhere, but NOH is really better known for shady business dealings than for journalistic integrity. Even if The Scope's a little slanted, I'd expect its tilt to be relatively subtle. NOH ... well, frankly, I think they're completely capable of making stuff up.

On the flip-flip side, the State also neither promises, nor has a structural reason to promise, to tell its populace the truth all the time. Executives need good info; others, often, not so much.

Edit:

Come to think of it, a statement like that from NOH serves as another kind of message: "Look, we've got a lot on our plate and you're not helping if you spread stuff like this. Yes, the situation's bad, but we're working on it. Kindly don't make our job harder."
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#197 - 2017-03-13 03:35:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
I'll be perfectly honest. The CEP has allowed the public relations side of this crisis to get away from them. The Gallente authorities are using the tragedy of Myrskaa to deflect from Postouvin's casualties, and the CEP lost the initiative at that point. Instead of redirecting attention back to Postouvin, or to admit with frankness that Myrskaa is a charnel house that they've abandoned to its fate, Lai Dai and NOH have issued what are frankly inept rebuttals, while those overseeing have remained silent.

As regards Myrskaa, I don't believe anyone had any illusion as to the eventual fate of the city once we learned the pathogen was Kyonoke. Despite bleeding heart Gallente mourning the suffering of those Gallente trapped inside the cordon, I'm sure we knew what was coming.

It was never going to be pretty.

At the same time, we must remember the good that has been and might yet be achieved, and remind State authorities of their duty in this case.

In the first place, the State did not hesitate to institute a quarantine that has, while it unfortunately doomed the city of Myrskaa, saved the rest of Oijanen II, and possibly many other planets and stations in that area of space.

What's more, while many are doomed, their death may be given value. The Home Guard and Navy should have done everything they could to continue to affect isolation practices, to ensure rationing, and to coordinate research. The medical personnel and scientific teams in the city should have been drafted in a coordinated crash research program. Even if no cure or treatment is found, the additional data might help in the future.

Lastly, those who remain in Myrskaa should be given a chance to communicate with their family, and to be made to know that theirs is a sacrifice that is not merely respected, but will be memorialized. That is the duty of the Executive in this case: to provide context and meaning, to provide objective and purpose.

The real reason for protest is not that a quarantine was enacted or enforced. Any other course of action would be beyond senseless.

It is the executives abandoning those who yet live as dead men, leaving them to suffer unnecessarily, bereft of purpose. That was unduly callous.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#198 - 2017-03-13 04:01:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Never mind sending people in to relieve their suffering is essentially the same thing as wasting valuable lives and resources for no gain. It seems that the Megas had already written them off as losses and wouldn't bother to waste any more time, manpower and resources on them. Frankly, considering that this is Kyonoke, I say this is most likely the best action to take for the circumstances.

Were it any other kind of outbreak, the outrage would be more justifiable. Not Kyonoke, though. Not with that 100% fatality rate, very high virulence and the complete absence of any kind of protection for any individual entering the infected zones.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#199 - 2017-03-13 04:05:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Makoto Priano
No sensible person would ask for others to be sent in to die, as well.

But those inside the dome?

Their deaths must be given some meaning, at least for the sake of the citizenry at large.

Simply said, write-offs should remain in the realm of accounting, not the realm of right action.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Aradina Varren
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#200 - 2017-03-13 04:21:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Aradina Varren
Hopefully Myrskaa can be used to gather data on Kyonoke to prevent this exact situation from ever happening again. It's already shown the effectiveness of completely isolating a city with a nanoshield dome. If there are any future outbreaks we can hope that more time will be devoted to providing comfort to the victims, however in this case there simply wasn't time. The first priority was making sure it couldn't spread to the rest of the planet.


After this is over, we should make sure that the dead are remembered.

Feels Pretty Soft to Me.