Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I don't have a hold up over -10. What I have an issue with, is ideas that affect so many others without good reason or need. Nice straw man though.

Again, low sec isn't limited to people who want to be -10.

Your idea would mean neutrals wouldn't be used and low sec might as well be null.

The fact you're unwilling to see, how this would affect one of the longest running professions in Eve, is startling. But sure, you latch onto the -10 point twist it into a straw man and run with it. You're obviously not interested in balance, or the affect it will have on others in the game.

I agree. But it seems he's not interested in consequences, whether sec hit or mechanic change.

Read the linked thread, some very good back and forth there in case you really do not see it. But to answer you directly: People who will be ratting have already 'declared' themselves as PvP'ers and low-sec rats are as easy as toppling dictators with cruise missile spam so the dreaded PvE fit will be the exception rather than the rule .. hell I used to belt rat in FW while waiting for pew and/or plexes so I know first hand just how easy it is.
Who in their right mind bothers with setting up a defenceless PvE ship to do what can be done in the ship one is conducting day-to-day business in if there is no tangible benefit/gain?

Put even simpler: It increases PvP trafficking without increasing random ganking.

The idea of no sec. hits on the other hand doesn't add much of value, it will more than likely increase ganking/noob-bashing more than it will increase actual PvP'ing simply because anyone can do it with not a care in world (other than being ganked themselves that is) .. it is not as if the current hit is much of a deterrent as is.
I can see it having some value in border/hub systems like Amak where locals are armed, somewhat honourable and 'outsiders' (read: those who want to try) can see if it is something they want .. but 'outsiders' rarely go much deeper than border+1 (ie. Here be real Pirates!) so the change will only really apply its 'positive' to 1-in-30 systems or something. Better to look at tweaking the security rating/system security ratio in that case.

The biggest benefit of current system (tweak or no tweak) is that it mitigates some of the noob-bashing of which the weekend warrior types (positive sec. 50%+ of time) are by far the most guilty .. the very same "warriors" that stand to benefit the most from having zero consequences.

Worst case scenario (because this is Eve, Worst Case is the norm!):
Shudder to think what a "no sec hit" rule would do in regards to multi-stabbed disco BS on gates .. they would swarm like snot-nosed kids in a trailer park .. for "lolz" and mails.
Cue general increase in ship sizes to survive the disco and removal of all "layman's" logistics (hauler's never survive disco) and you have not only killed off fun'n'fast pew (frigs/cruisers) but chopped off the head of the budding LS hubs.

read through where this argument was going, and thought i comment a little something.

anytime i have ever come across another ship in low sec, with no exception, i became a target. so i dont know what that adds to this thread, but its hard to imagine that much of a difference if sec status was changed. personally it sounds like it might help bring carebears into low, grow some balls because they have a little less to lose.

i see how people might gate camp a little more. but you guys havent commented on the suggestion to leave .4 systems the same. its hard for me to leave arguments alone when i see one side trying to offer ideas, and even comprimize, and then the other side just talk about how they dont like change.

Part of what makes lowsec and piracy what it is, is that sec status loss. If that bothers you pew in null.

Problem solved.

And low sec pvp isnt deterred by it. And on top of it, game should at least try to make sense, so real world comparisons aren't out of place, to a certain degree.

I see you tie pirating to the sec status and only the sec status. Losing sec status is the profession of piracy to you. Without it there would be no pirates you say. So me shooting that neutral who I know is really a wt alt is "pirating" because I would lose sec status. This whole way of thinking is pretty sad. And is a bastardization of what pirating is.

Pirating as a "profession" should bring some sort of profit to the person pirating. People who do an activity and aren't paid are "amatures." By profiting from it you are a "professional."

IMO, If you are just blowing stuff up to lose sec status and not profiting that does not make you a professional pirate. I suppose you can call yourself an amature pirate but you are not a "professional." If you are killing and ransoming people for profit you are a professional pirate regardless of your sec status.

You are twisting what I agree is a well respected way to play the game into something as meaningless as losing sec status.

The bottom line on all this is you can still play the game exactly as you do now except you would not as easilly get your "badge." That badge is important to you because under your view of what it means to be a pirate that is the begin all and end all. Thats ok. I'm not going to knock it.

But what about the .4 systems remaining the same so you can camp those high sec gates and get your negative sec status, but let the rest of us pvp?

Who the hell ever said that mechanics are there to facilitate fun? Most mechanics are tear inducing annoying/boring for Goddess sake .. if you want mechanics that cater purely to fun/pleasure then watch porno's

The main reason why rules (ie. mechanics) exist in any game/sport is to challenge the player, make him think, act as balancing tools etc. ... 'fun' may be on the list, right near the tail end of it.

That said, a designer might tweak a system after it has been constructed to increase the entertainment value, but it will almost always be after the "real" reason for making said system is put on paper.

PS: Dammit Cea, now you got me mad again ... grrrrrrrr.

You're obviously not listening, or in this case reading what I'm saying. I see no point in continuing this pointless debate, over an idea that is flawed and will never happen.

Good luck.

I am not disregarding pirating. You claim to view sec status as the main part of it. You claim that the profession wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the loss of sec status. I am saying I think your view is skewed. Here is why:

The only thing you need to do to lose sec status is run around attacking people in low sec. You don't even need to kill them let alone make money from the loot drop or ransom. To say this loss of sec status is the main part of the profession means the profession really is nothing more than running around shooting at people in low sec.

Piracy as a profession is the making of money from loot drops or ransoms. Whether an attack is piracy depends on why you are doing it. It really has nothing to do with whether you get a sec status hit or not. You can pirate from someone who has a negative 10 sec status as in ransoming or blowing up and looting their ship even though you do not get a sec status hit.

If you kill someone because you just want to grief them or you know they are an alt spy for the enemy you are not pirating even though you may lose sec status. The 2 concepts are really quite distinct.

I realize many people have lost touch with any sensible notion of what pirating is and now just think well if they have a low sec status they are a pirate. And indeed I myself may even say there are pirates at a gate when all I really mean is we can shoot them without going gcc. But this has nothing to do with the actual profession of piracy.
However if that is the main thing to being a pirate then being a pirate is not a profession. It’s a statement of your sec status. Its like saying having a plus 2 sec status is a profession.

And again this sec status hit is not just a problem for fw. It’s a problem for everyone who wants to pvp in low sec. I guess with the exception of people like you who like to have the negative sec status as a badge. But that group is likely the very small percentage of the eve population. ( many people who have a low sec status don’t have it low because they view it as a badge but just because they like to pvp in low sec.)

So you are the one who is unbalanced in your view. You are one of a very few who care so much for your precious badge (which actually only means you tried to attack a bunch of people in low sec not that you had any success at it) that you aren’t considering what the vast majority of pvpers might think.