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How long are you willing to train at non-optimum rate?

Author
The Larold
This is an anagram of itself.
#1 - 2017-02-07 16:08:10 UTC
I'm curious how many of you out there feel "dirty" when you're not training at an optimal SP rate? For high-sec only folks, I would imagine 2,700 SP/hour is a regular thing. For null-sec and PvP folks, I can imagine "optimal" is using perhaps +3 or +4 implants.

For example, If I was mapped Int / Mem, I would be willing to train the following types of skills indefinitely:
Int / Mem skils
Int / x skills (e.g. Navigation stuff)
Mem / Int skills (e.g. production stuff)

However, once I drop below 2,520 SP / hour, I start to feel really inefficient. (Yes, I realize this is somewhat ridiculous and restrictive.) But I'm almost never willing to train anything for more than a day or two at a sub-optimal rate. If I am desperate to unlock something, I'll buy an injector or two.

I'm curious how you all think in terms of what you're going to train sub-optimally, for how long, and how you deal with being mapped to one thing, but really needing a different set of skills - say - a set that requires 5+ injectors. I'm wondering if there are folks out there as OCD as I am.

I've been mapped to Perc / Will for about a year and a half, and I've probably spent no more than 48 hours training at less than 2,520 SP / hour. Injectors here and there.

And yes, I think it's things like this that strongly show a need for removing attributes.
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#2 - 2017-02-07 16:12:49 UTC
When I first started, I obsessed over my attributes and getting the most SP for my subscription but when it always came time to press the buttons - I chickened out. I did do the PER/INT remap that was and maybe still is the recommended new player setup. After a while, now that my supporting skills are good enough and I can fly anything that I want to, I hardly even look at my skill queue anymore.

@lunettelulu7

Ayx Shewma
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2017-02-07 17:07:11 UTC
The Larold wrote:
I'm curious how many of you out there feel "dirty"

...

However, once I drop below 2,520 SP / hour, I start to feel really inefficient. .....If I am desperate to unlock something, I'll buy an injector or two.

.... I'm wondering if there are folks out there as OCD as I am.

...


Seriously, you might need medication
Eternus8lux8lucis
Duckzer Mining Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
#4 - 2017-02-07 17:11:39 UTC
It used to not be an issue for me when I first started playing as we really had no clue what was available. +5s were mythical implants and the learning skills werent even known about for months if not a year or two for us, then became mandatory and after that it became more meaningful.

I can see how for new people or the OCD it might be an issue but by now for me I just add skills. ET has a skill queue of 744 days 9h 33m and 50s.TwistedBlink After a certain point its like what else can I ADD to the queue.

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

Chihuahuaraffe
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2017-02-07 17:28:18 UTC
Since the "Training Skills" went away I find I'm much more calm about the whole thing, and the difference between optimal and pessimal training could be overcome by throwing a skill injector at it, so I don't feel like "I'm gonna die if I don't get every possible skillpoint" the way I did in the beginning.

On a somewhat related note, I think would be cool would be if CCP would start letting Omega players have a second character on the account train in parallel for free at Alpha (half speed) rates.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#6 - 2017-02-07 17:43:03 UTC
I stopped caring what or how fast I train a long time ago.. Usually sitting in an all-5 clone with remapping to a group of skills (int/mem right now) and then I just train all the skills in one category that I remotely care about from top to bottom.. Jump cloning whenever I want to do something else (HG crystal for my blops).

I do the same with my alts. Just remapping to something and then training from top to bottom for the sake of training something..

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#7 - 2017-02-07 17:52:03 UTC
With skill injectors and the occasional accelerator it's less of an issue now.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

Elenahina
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#8 - 2017-02-07 17:55:33 UTC
Are there people as OCD about min/maxing as you are? Yes, I am sure there are.

Will CCP change the game to make you feel better about your skill point accumulation mini game? FFS I hope not. Attribute choice is really the only meaningful long term decision you have with your character any more. And as others have noted, sub optimal arrangements can be overcome by injectors, if you really feel like you're missing out.

I train what I need. Unless the remap is going to save me three or four days, I generally don't worry about it. But when you're training skills that take 20 days, saving half a day is like "Meh".

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Merias Tylar al-Akhwa
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2017-02-07 18:01:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Merias Tylar al-Akhwa
Attributes and player optimization of skill training times adds a minor degree of depth to the game. They are something that you don't need to pay attention to, but that for those willing to put in the effort/resources can give you a competitive edge. We don't need CCP to water down the game further by removing functions like this, even if they seem minor. Details make the game.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#10 - 2017-02-07 18:05:19 UTC
Lulu Lunette wrote:
...I hardly even look at my skill queue anymore.

This.

Remove standings and insurance.

Keno Skir
#11 - 2017-02-07 18:09:19 UTC
I would have way more SP right now if i cared at all about my training rate, but since actual skills count for loads more than SP i try to focus on what really matters rather than some arbitrary SP/s rate Pirate
Lena Crews
Cynosural Edge
#12 - 2017-02-07 18:13:12 UTC
The Larold wrote:
I'm curious how many of you out there feel "dirty" when you're not training at an optimal SP rate? For high-sec only folks, I would imagine 2,700 SP/hour is a regular thing. For null-sec and PvP folks, I can imagine "optimal" is using perhaps +3 or +4 implants.

For example, If I was mapped Int / Mem, I would be willing to train the following types of skills indefinitely:
Int / Mem skils
Int / x skills (e.g. Navigation stuff)
Mem / Int skills (e.g. production stuff)

However, once I drop below 2,520 SP / hour, I start to feel really inefficient. (Yes, I realize this is somewhat ridiculous and restrictive.) But I'm almost never willing to train anything for more than a day or two at a sub-optimal rate. If I am desperate to unlock something, I'll buy an injector or two.

I'm curious how you all think in terms of what you're going to train sub-optimally, for how long, and how you deal with being mapped to one thing, but really needing a different set of skills - say - a set that requires 5+ injectors. I'm wondering if there are folks out there as OCD as I am.

I've been mapped to Perc / Will for about a year and a half, and I've probably spent no more than 48 hours training at less than 2,520 SP / hour. Injectors here and there.

And yes, I think it's things like this that strongly show a need for removing attributes.


When I played years ago I was really hung up on skill training speed.

Now... I don't really care. I have enough skills to fly "good enough" ships to do what I want. Taking a few extra days to train a skill to V isn't going to bust me up much.

Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#13 - 2017-02-07 18:20:52 UTC
Besides SP farming what do you need optimal training speed for? I did a remap early with this character, and then I reset it back to a more even spread once I realized that I train what I want to train, based on what I want to do in the game.

SP optimization in my mind has and will always be about getting an alt up to speed as quickly as possible, so you can start plexing that account as soon as possible.
Sweet Adamas
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2017-02-07 19:26:55 UTC
When you are really young you want 2700sp because you have so many core skills to train.

Once you have them plus some offensive skills you start to not care as much
Uncle Bork
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2017-02-07 19:34:04 UTC
I was always more concerned about waking up at the right time to swtich my skills so I wouldn't lose time, but that was a ways back in time. I also forgot all about the learning skills. I don't even bohter with them now. I grab a set of risk appropriate implants and chaarge forward.
Cade Windstalker
#16 - 2017-02-07 19:47:33 UTC
If anything I'm the opposite of most of the people in this thread. The more SP I've gotten the less reason I've had to train things non-optimally. Since I already have almost all of the "necessary" stuff for what I want to do a little more waiting for something new, better, or extra doesn't bug me much so I try to stay as close to optimal training as much as I can.
Elenahina
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#17 - 2017-02-07 19:54:36 UTC
I know this may horrify some people but I have a character ending training tonight at midnight, and it will be 6 am tomorrow before I actually start up the other queue on that account.

Because I, like the honey badger, have 0 ***** to give.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Merias Tylar al-Akhwa
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2017-02-07 20:13:27 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
> character ending training tonight at midnight, and it will be 6 am tomorrow before I actually start up the other queue on that account.


*horrified screeching ensues*
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#19 - 2017-02-07 20:45:45 UTC
I think I did amarr tactical destroyer from 0 to 5 on an int/mem remap, and infomorph psyc to 5 and a few levels of advanced. beyond that I have the SP I'm not too worried either way. I don't feel like I need to train most stuff that comes out immediately, and most of the old stuff I already have trained. if it is a good skill I'll train it off remap.

I'm under 7days on my drone remap and it will be a per/wp after that to catch up on all the new skills like the other tactical destroyers, t2 cap guns, command destroyers, and other skills like non amarr carriers. After that probably do a leadership remap, and then after that who knows what as CCP adds stuff over the next year or two.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Eternus8lux8lucis
Duckzer Mining Corporation
RAZOR Alliance
#20 - 2017-02-07 20:58:24 UTC
This thread does make me wonder if people would want to buy skill injectors, not extractors, from CCP directly if or when CCP would add new skills for players for a very short time span and only to train those specific new skills?

Atm the SP loss for new skills with injectors is hampered by the relative SP age of a pilot but Im curious how people would feel if this could be limitedly circumvented through a direct purchase.

Just thinking out loud. Flame away.Big smile

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.

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