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Small Hi-Sec POS questions
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Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#1 - 2011-12-27 15:12:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Panhead4411
So, my main questions are;

#1. Does it matter which faction of tower i set up in a particular faction's space?

#2 .And is it a feasible idea to only online it for the few hours every other day that i need it? (Yes or No, can i just online it for when i use it, i know there is an 'online timer' )

#3. I've heard somewhere about fuel use racial bonuses, is that something that effects hi-sec towers at all? (i think this got answered, one person said it is only the 'faction towers', so i guess that answers that)

(using it as a mining base in an area of Hi-sec that has very few easily "grindable" stations, but decent size belts/rocks)

^by this i mean, there are NO stations in this particular system, and closest station one could easily grind is 2 jumps away.

Plan incase of war is to suck in all back up, so no need for defense. Just a couple of corp hangers and maintenance array to hold ore/outfit mining fleet.

thx for the help.

And yes, i have a perfect orca alt, POS will just be used to dump ore into, instead of jumping orca 2 jumps away, then two jumps back every 30 minutes or so...

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
Skorpynekomimi
#2 - 2011-12-27 16:14:12 UTC
TBH, it's a huge expense to use as a mining base. Buy an orca instead and bring a friend/alt to sit in it, that's far more efficient.

Economic PVP
Velicitia
XS Tech
#3 - 2011-12-27 16:24:48 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
TBH, it's a huge expense to use as a mining base. Buy an orca instead and bring a friend/alt to sit in it, that's far more efficient.



This.

However, if you really want to go the POS route, it's best (in your case) to get the same racial tower as the region you're in -- you can mine the ice yourself then, rather than having to buy the racial isotopes off the market (but this isn't exactly a "big deal"). The only towers that have bonuses to fuel consumption are faction (and stupidly overpriced ATM).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#4 - 2011-12-27 18:06:35 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
TBH, it's a huge expense to use as a mining base. Buy an orca instead and bring a friend/alt to sit in it, that's far more efficient.



This.

However, if you really want to go the POS route, it's best (in your case) to get the same racial tower as the region you're in -- you can mine the ice yourself then, rather than having to buy the racial isotopes off the market (but this isn't exactly a "big deal"). The only towers that have bonuses to fuel consumption are faction (and stupidly overpriced ATM).


Unless you believe minerals you mine are free, or transportation is a huge hassle (not the case in Hisec, unless it's an island), mine the best isk/hr you can and buy the fuel. If you pull in 10m/hr worth of mins in a Hulk and 7.5m/hr worth of Ice products, and you need 20m worth of Ice products, mining for 2 hours and getting your ice on market is faster than Ice mining for 3 hours.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Twylla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-12-27 21:03:58 UTC
Here's a little bit of education for you.

Research: Highsec , Nullsec
Mining Operations: Nullsec
Production: Nullsec
Moon Mining: Lowsec, Nullsec

So for a highsec POS, your only reason for using it is for research options ONLY, and only within the same system as a corporate office.

Reason: Highsec stations offer better rental rates than POS fuel costs, can offer production space and infinite storage. The only thing you will NOT find in a highsec station will be ME research and COPY research.

12 million isk a month is better than 2-6 million isk per day.

~Weapons R&D technician, arms manufacturer, weapons dealer, wormhole project manager, nulsec fleet pilot, armored warfare command/mindlink specialist, thanatos pilot, alliance executor, now retired~

I've done everything. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!
Velicitia
XS Tech
#6 - 2011-12-27 21:29:07 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
TBH, it's a huge expense to use as a mining base. Buy an orca instead and bring a friend/alt to sit in it, that's far more efficient.



This.

However, if you really want to go the POS route, it's best (in your case) to get the same racial tower as the region you're in -- you can mine the ice yourself then, rather than having to buy the racial isotopes off the market (but this isn't exactly a "big deal"). The only towers that have bonuses to fuel consumption are faction (and stupidly overpriced ATM).


Unless you believe minerals you mine are free, or transportation is a huge hassle (not the case in Hisec, unless it's an island), mine the best isk/hr you can and buy the fuel. If you pull in 10m/hr worth of mins in a Hulk and 7.5m/hr worth of Ice products, and you need 20m worth of Ice products, mining for 2 hours and getting your ice on market is faster than Ice mining for 3 hours.


Yeah, this is also true -- but I was assuming that since he was looking to use a POS as a mining base, the OP may not have access to a freighter for the ice products. In a month, it's a moot point anyway, as he'll be able to buy the relevant fuel blocks ready made.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#7 - 2011-12-27 21:36:57 UTC
Panhead4411 wrote:

(using it as a mining base in an area of Hi-sec that has very few easily "grindable" stations, but decent size belts/rocks)


Just FYI, if you have standings to anchor a POS in hisec, you've (almost certianly) got perfect tax free refining in that area of space, and even with 0 standings, a POS refinery is a huge loss in yield compared to paying the tax. ~75% unaffected by skills vs ~100% including skills at a station.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#8 - 2011-12-27 23:18:08 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Panhead4411 wrote:

(using it as a mining base in an area of Hi-sec that has very few easily "grindable" stations, but decent size belts/rocks)


Just FYI, if you have standings to anchor a POS in hisec, you've (almost certianly) got perfect tax free refining in that area of space, and even with 0 standings, a POS refinery is a huge loss in yield compared to paying the tax. ~75% unaffected by skills vs ~100% including skills at a station.


Okay, maybe i should have clarified a few things...

I have orca alt who has perfect boost.

The system, there are NO stations in this particular system, and the closest station that one would be able to grind within a reasonable amount of time, is two jumps away from the system i've scouted very nice sized 10% rocks in the belts (for a highsec system). This would mean i'd have to jump the orca 2 jumps away each time it filled up, and when you have hulks yield fit, they will only hold one cycle in the hold. Which is already barely enough time to get an orca to a station and back, let alone making sure you are not hitting anything 'out of range' once the boost drops.

And if yall would have read, i was wondering if it was feasible to online it only for the time i'm mining, then hauling it back w/ freighter after the fact to a station where i can crunch it for 100%. (also, can't anchor refineries in highsec anyways) That way the cost for running it would be much less than if i ran it 24/7...

And i plan on buying the fuel blocks, but even at 100m month, the payoff from how much more i'll pull in from the ore will offset that.

And to whomever said i should mine the ice...last i looked, hi-sec ice mining was just about the worste income one could choose, unless they were botters, then its one of the easiest.

I guess i forgot what info i had actually put in here since my first attempt to post got 'ganked'.....*angry eyes*

Will update OP to better reflect the nature of the post...and please, atleast answer the questions before you inject your "your doing it wrong" reply...

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#9 - 2011-12-27 23:26:01 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
If you just want CHAs use a small POS of whatever race is cheapest to fuel. If you can anchor at will then either leave it offline to save fuel (waiting the 10m online timer) and expect to lose CHAs to suicide ganks on occasion, or scoop it (or just the CHAs) when done mining.

Keep in mind offline towers do not get a reinforcement timer.

As for cost, you'll really have to do the math yourself.

Second Edit. Use Large Ship assembly arrays. Much bigger storage.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Ameron Phinard
#10 - 2011-12-28 03:20:40 UTC
Twylla wrote:

So for a highsec POS, your only reason for using it is for research options ONLY, and only within the same system as a corporate office.


The economics of a high-sec production POS will change when towers flip over to burning fuel blocks at a constant rate instead of burning ice products directly depending on load. If you already have a research POS up, there's no reason to not max out the grid with defenses and/or assembly arrays.
mnybag1
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2011-12-28 15:22:01 UTC
I will try to actually answer your questions before I give my own recommendations.

You can put any factions tower up anywhere, but as has been said before only "faction" towers get fuel bonuses. I would not recommend using a faction tower though if you plan on offlining it as it would make a prime target.

It would be feasible to just online it when you need it if you do not mind waiting for the timer. however, I would recommend keeping guns on the tower because anyone with half a brain would start to see what youre doing and then just grief you.

Now to my recommendation: I recommend either making, buying, or finding a friend who can fly another orca. It does not have to be maxed out at all, just cargo fit. Then you can have the boosting Orca sitting in system constantly while the 2nd Orca ferrys the ores back and forward to the station system. Yes this might get annoying but it saves you from having to put up a tower and worry about it being ganked or worry about fueling it, etc etc.

Just my .02
Xuzi
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2011-12-28 15:50:27 UTC
Panhead4411 wrote:
#1. Does it matter which faction of tower i set up in a particular faction's space?

Not at all. For the purpose you are using it for you don't need to concern yourself with anything other than what type of tower has the cheapest and/or most convenient fuel.

Panhead4411 wrote:
#2 .And is it a feasible idea to only online it for the few hours every other day that i need it? (Yes or No, can i just online it for when i use it, i know there is an 'online timer' )

Absolutely. Have done it myself. Just keep in mind that the longer you leave it up offlined, the more likely a corp may wander by and wonder if they might of found an inactive corp's tower to test their guns on. You may get a war dec every so often from corps who don't bother to check and see if you're actually active or not before wasting their money on a war dec. Is easy enough to take down the tower if this happens. More of an annoyance factor.

Panhead4411 wrote:
#3. I've heard somewhere about fuel use racial bonuses, is that something that effects hi-sec towers at all? (i think this got answered, one person said it is only the 'faction towers', so i guess that answers that)

Probably want to avoid faction towers for this purpose. Aim for cheap and disposable.

RubyPorto wrote:
Use Large Ship assembly arrays. Much bigger storage.
Good advice. If its just you alone mining, then a CHA is probably sufficient. However, if you can organize a large gang of miners, thats when this whole logistics model really shines, in which case you'll want to keep the ship assembly array in mind.
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services
The Possum Lodge
#13 - 2011-12-28 20:55:33 UTC
mnybag1 wrote:
I will try to actually answer your questions before I give my own recommendations.
I recommend either making, buying, or finding a friend who can fly another orca. It does not have to be maxed out at all, just cargo fit. Then you can have the boosting Orca sitting in system constantly while the 2nd Orca ferrys the ores back and forward to the station system. Yes this might get annoying but it saves you from having to put up a tower and worry about it being ganked or worry about fueling it, etc etc.

Just my .02


I understand where you're coming from, but another account would cost 500m per month, as opposed to ~120m to fuel a tower (and that is if it is left online 24/7) And splitting the profits w/ a second orca pilot starts to negate the extra yield from the nicer pockets.

And besides, my orca pilot is hard enough to justify, seeing as its only used for the insane boost and hauling, and occasional salvaging, i'm not a huge fan of multi-boxing, so 3 is enough for me (mine, bro's, and shared orca alt)

Also, nice suggestion w/ the assembly array, never would have looked at that.


To they guy concerned about war dec's, good points, and the current plan is to hope the cost of 50m to dec in the first place will discourage them, and if not, its easy enough to scoop within 24 hrs of notice.

Thanks for the help guys, much obliged.

http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing    < Unified Inventory is NOT ready...
Twylla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2011-12-28 22:36:18 UTC
Panhead4411 wrote:
So, my main questions are;

#1. Does it matter which faction of tower i set up in a particular faction's space?

#2 .And is it a feasible idea to only online it for the few hours every other day that i need it? (Yes or No, can i just online it for when i use it, i know there is an 'online timer' )

#3. I've heard somewhere about fuel use racial bonuses, is that something that effects hi-sec towers at all? (i think this got answered, one person said it is only the 'faction towers', so i guess that answers that)

(using it as a mining base in an area of Hi-sec that has very few easily "grindable" stations, but decent size belts/rocks)

^by this i mean, there are NO stations in this particular system, and closest station one could easily grind is 2 jumps away.



Better refinement of purpose.

For something like that, where the nearest refining station is 2+ jumps away (there are a few), using a highsec POS can be a viable 'collection warehouse' in conjunction with a freighter. Minimal infrastructure is necessary, since you only need a Maintenance array and a bunch of Hangars. (Freighter is pricey, however).

1. Race of tower is irrelevant, but it's easier to obtain budget fuel if you match your tower to your local area
2. It's not terribly practical, since you are putting your infrastructure at risk. It's possible, but would require a lot of time to online equipment just to 'break down' in a war dec situation
3. Faction/pirate towers have reduced fuel costs, but you pay a LOT more up-front for them. It could take years before you see any net savings.

~Weapons R&D technician, arms manufacturer, weapons dealer, wormhole project manager, nulsec fleet pilot, armored warfare command/mindlink specialist, thanatos pilot, alliance executor, now retired~

I've done everything. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!
Pseudo Sasaya
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2011-12-29 00:18:46 UTC
This is what I actually tend to use POSes for.. find a nice quiet stationless system in high sec, use the POS as a depot, then haul the raw ore a few jumps over with a freighter for refining.

You will be able to do this cheaply for a few more weeks, but after that the fuel blocks kick in and minimalists POSes like this will be charged as if they have a full CPU/PG load, which significantly increases the price. Add into that the price jump in PI materials, and the cost to use these staging POSes becomes a lot greater then it used to be.