Wormholes

Yes, actually

If I'm not mistaken, permanent residents was never the plan when wormholes were brought into the game. The thought was that people would visit WH space, not live there.

Now of course eve players have surprised eve developers many times with how they use new changes. But given the fact that WH's weren't designed for permanent player habitation, I'm not sure it's true that they need to be balanced against K-space which WAS designed for permanent player habitation.

The problem with removing Local in null is you end up making null sec a lot like wormhole space with sov and some fixed jump routes (with wormholes being unfixed routes also available). We already have wormhole space... why do we need to turn null into the same thing.

Based on your logic... an equally acceptable solution would be adding local to WH space and possibly nerfing the rewards from the sites as it would now be "easier". That would **** off those who like not having local in wormholes... but I wonder why they're so okay with pissing off those in null who like having local when the shoe is on the other foot?

Is your issue just balance?

If so... why not add local to wormholes?

Or is it that you want Null to be like WH space? If so... why? There's tons of empty wormhole space. Maybe it's empty because more people want local?

Look... I like doing a little bit of stuff in both. I don't really want to make Null like WH space or WH space like Null. I think having variety is good. I think the tactics of both should stay different.

**edit** how about just adding bounties to WH space? That increases WH income and might lure more ratters. I say "might" because I think the real problem with WH space is that even more than null it presents logistical challenges for visitors/interlopers. I don't think having more income from WH sites will draw more people... it will just enrich the locals.

I guess the question then becomes... if WH space sucks so bad balance wise then why not leave?

I'm not in favor of making null like WH space or WH space like null. I prefer to have options. This seems a lot like people in high-sec wanting concord responses in low sec and null... an idea based on self interest of a single group of players.

I'm kind of against the constant situation where people are talking about how overpowered people who play in other areas are and how underpowered their area of play is. That goes for High Sec care bears, null sec dwellers and WH residents all the same.

If the rats can alpha the interceptor before it can warp off i'm 100% with you.

Look... the problem is you're fundamentally trying to change Null Sec because you feel like your preferred method of playing (Wormholes) isn't as profitable as it should be.

Instead of that... why not talk about changes to the place you reside in order to create balance?

Taking away local is a fundamental change. Yes... null has set jump gates... but they also get wormholes that give them random neighbors as well. Local is the key difference. If you take that away then it simply becomes a decision if you want some permanent and some random neighbors or no permanent and all random neighbors.

We already have wormhole space. We don't need to change null to match it just because you feel you're not rewarded enough for living in a wormhole. You have a very simple solution if you don't like it. Go to Null. That's the same answer high-sec dwellers have if they complain that the rewards are too great in Null. They can come too.

Wormholes were conceived as places to visit and not live. I understand that's not how they're used now... but that WAS the point of them at the start. To be honest WH residents are the REASON why many won't visit in a PVE ship... just like few visit enemy controlled Null Sec systems in a PVE ship. You die if you do that. If WH's just had visitors and no permanent residents... the number of visitors would skyrocket because there'd be less fear of permanent wormhole dwellers warping a fleet to your PvE ship. At the beginning, wormholes were often free-for-all zones. Now the chances are that some wormhole resident corp will have a chain leading to whatever wormhole you are in.

Nerfing Null will have little impact on WH space anyway... not from people doing PVE. People will just take their PVE to high-sec missions or incursions which pay about the same rate as null anom running anyway if you're not in a carrier.

I'm not discussing your other ideas.

I'm discussing the idea of removing local from null. I'm sorry if that was unclear to you. I'll try to spell it out better.

I think removing local from null is a mindblowingly stupid idea. I believe it would make null the same as wormhole space and there's no good reason to make eve more uniform in how it behaves. I'm not commenting on any other ideas you have... because for the most part I'm not planning on running PvE in WH's. I'm pointing out why one of your ideas that impacts Null (a place where I do run some PvE) is not wise.

Get it?

Now... again (since you don't seem to want to actually address the points I raised).... I'll try again.

1. Nerfing Null by removing local will in no way improve participation in WH space. Why would it? You're making Null more like WH space anyway... either they're going to stay where they are or go back to Low or Hi sec.

2. PVE in opposition controlled space is extremely rare everywhere in eve. Nobody goes into red held null space to rat... they rat in their home systems. The reason people don't visit WH's to do PVE... is that others control the space.

3. The control of wormhole space by local corps has increased. It wasn't intended... but it's what happened. This is why non-cloaked visitation has dropped. Wormhole dwellers have made it much more dangerous to solo PvE in wormholes.

Look... you're talking about PvE here. Mining of NPC rats with missiles. You're complaining there aren't enough people running combat sites in WH's. The idea that making life harder in another part of eve will somehow help that is kind of an odd way to think. People don't do harder things when you make the thing they're doing harder. They do easier things.

And yes... I'm ignoring all of your other ideas. I'm simply shooting down the one I disagree with. I don't think increasing loot or decreasing difficulty will do much to impact combat site running by visitors any more than doing that in Null would impact visitors to red-controlled null sec coming in to ninja sites. The amount of PvE in enemy territory is always pretty small everywhere in Eve. Nothing is going to change that.