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Worst battleships?
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Takh Meir'noen
24th Imperial Recon
#41 - 2017-02-10 16:49:48 UTC
Mikkir wrote:
Takh Meir'noen wrote:
On the original topic, as much love as I have for the Abaddon, it doesn't really stand out from the Apocalypse enough, especially for L4 missions.


Can you share you abaddon fit for PvE? Everytime I try to fit it I end up doing my impression of the Jackie Chan meme picture.

I'd like to see a not terrible fit for it.


HI: 8 Mega Beam (my preference) or 8 MegaPulse
MID: MWD + 2 Cap Battery + MJD (beam) or Web (pulse)
LO: LAR + 2 Hardener + 2 CPR + 2 HS
RIG: 2 CCC (t2), ANC (beam) or ANP (pulse)

It's not a bad ship, really. The beam fit has about 440 omni tank (626 vs blood with specific). The MWD and MJD allow you to position yourself quickly to prime killing distance. If you prefer pulse (I don't enjoy MWDing around between scattered BS's all trying to orbit @ 49k) then the tank is 505 omni (720 specific). It shells out a lot of damage.

However, an Apoc will track better, have better optimal, and need one less cap mod for the same stability, which can be put towards tank (making it tank as well as teh abaddon) or DPS (making it do about the same DPS as the abaddon). I would hands down rather use an Apoc for a beam fit for the optimal increase.

I don't think the Abaddon is the worst BS--I just don't think it stands out enough from the Apoc. Since it needs an extra cap mod to get the same stability, I think it dimishes the ship bonuses it has. I think if the Abaddon had the same base capacitor & recharge as the Apocalypse it would be a better ship. Apoc would then be the optimal + tracking boat, and the Abaddon would be the better tanky/brawler option.

I've flown a Paladin since they added marauders though, so now it's all about the Tachyons for me.
Mikkir
SHINKETSU Inc.
#42 - 2017-02-11 06:21:44 UTC
Takh Meir'noen wrote:
HI: 8 Mega Beam (my preference) or 8 MegaPulse
MID: MWD + 2 Cap Battery + MJD (beam) or Web (pulse)
LO: LAR + 2 Hardener + 2 CPR + 2 HS
RIG: 2 CCC (t2), ANC (beam) or ANP (pulse)

It's not a bad ship, really. The beam fit has about 440 omni tank (626 vs blood with specific). The MWD and MJD allow you to position yourself quickly to prime killing distance. If you prefer pulse (I don't enjoy MWDing around between scattered BS's all trying to orbit @ 49k) then the tank is 505 omni (720 specific). It shells out a lot of damage.

However, an Apoc will track better, have better optimal, and need one less cap mod for the same stability, which can be put towards tank (making it tank as well as teh abaddon) or DPS (making it do about the same DPS as the abaddon). I would hands down rather use an Apoc for a beam fit for the optimal increase.

I don't think the Abaddon is the worst BS--I just don't think it stands out enough from the Apoc. Since it needs an extra cap mod to get the same stability, I think it dimishes the ship bonuses it has. I think if the Abaddon had the same base capacitor & recharge as the Apocalypse it would be a better ship. Apoc would then be the optimal + tracking boat, and the Abaddon would be the better tanky/brawler option.

I've flown a Paladin since they added marauders though, so now it's all about the Tachyons for me.




Thanks for the fit. I just struggle to fly a ship where I have to fit 6 cap mods, it really makes me doubt a ship when I have to dedicate that many mods to it.

Maybe it's better than I gave it credit for, but I just struggle to justify it when I do something like that while fitting.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2017-02-11 06:59:47 UTC
Mikkir wrote:


Thanks for the fit. I just struggle to fly a ship where I have to fit 6 cap mods, it really makes me doubt a ship when I have to dedicate that many mods to it.

Maybe it's better than I gave it credit for, but I just struggle to justify it when I do something like that while fitting.


Thats only to get the thing cap stable, generally you fit a heavy cap booster and simply manage your cap.
Mikkir
SHINKETSU Inc.
#44 - 2017-02-11 10:09:57 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mikkir wrote:


Thanks for the fit. I just struggle to fly a ship where I have to fit 6 cap mods, it really makes me doubt a ship when I have to dedicate that many mods to it.

Maybe it's better than I gave it credit for, but I just struggle to justify it when I do something like that while fitting.


Thats only to get the thing cap stable, generally you fit a heavy cap booster and simply manage your cap.


Do you have a fit I could play with?

I understand what you're saying, and there's a lot of ships that don't really need to be cap stable to be effective, but it seems like the abaddon takes it to an extreme.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#45 - 2017-02-13 22:16:23 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Mikkir wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Mikkir wrote:


Thanks for the fit. I just struggle to fly a ship where I have to fit 6 cap mods, it really makes me doubt a ship when I have to dedicate that many mods to it.

Maybe it's better than I gave it credit for, but I just struggle to justify it when I do something like that while fitting.


Thats only to get the thing cap stable, generally you fit a heavy cap booster and simply manage your cap.


Do you have a fit I could play with?

I understand what you're saying, and there's a lot of ships that don't really need to be cap stable to be effective, but it seems like the abaddon takes it to an extreme.



Off the top of my head you go pulse and HUEG tank for pve. One electrochem heavy booster with cap charge 3200. Prop mod (generally a MWD)

If you have cap for 4 min you tend to be ok cap wise in pve. This boat isn't really made for mission running, its more of a damage sponge for fleet combat so as said the apoc is a better choice.
Brok Haslack
9624968
#46 - 2017-03-02 22:11:17 UTC
Generally speaking the T2 ships have issues for those of us who cannot urinate PLEX. A lot of cost, & weak insurance with it.

The space-happy rich won't get this, but it's partly why the Incursion Community is being crushed into turgid monotony. DPS flies around as you move to challenge the Sansha invaders (oh noes!), a damage spike or human error happens (oh biuggery!), and if you have the slightest difference in rigs (for example) from holy doctrine you end up majorly out of pocket.

If you want PvE to be exciting you want 2 things:

- Those damage spikes. Obviously. A heavy spawn, some unlucky 'dice rolls', and some action. Gaming is gaming.

- Being able to try new strategies. Which is currently verboten in so many fleets, because of holy doctrine.


Stagnation helps no-one. So these T2 Battleships are a bit of a weak link here. I don't see the problem with a full hull payout (like with T1 platignum) for a higher price here, but until that happens holy doctrine will continue to reduce Incursions to mind-numbing drudgery.

T1 incursions can't win challenges against T2 fleets.

So there is no real player choice. Drudgery or drudgery. Improve the Insurance for T2's and new fleets can grow, which would clearly improve game-play.


2p deposited, & I shalll now go hide in my bunker as the flames start to fly ;)
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#47 - 2017-03-06 14:35:22 UTC
Marauders aren't the worst battleships (regardless of insurance).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mikkir
SHINKETSU Inc.
#48 - 2017-03-06 14:45:17 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Marauders aren't the worst battleships (regardless of insurance).


I wasn't sure if that was posted in the wrong thread or not. All marauders are playable as hell.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#49 - 2017-03-06 16:54:20 UTC
Brok Haslack wrote:
Generally speaking the T2 ships have issues for those of us who cannot urinate PLEX. A lot of cost, & weak insurance with it.

The space-happy rich won't get this, but it's partly why the Incursion Community is being crushed into turgid monotony. DPS flies around as you move to challenge the Sansha invaders (oh noes!), a damage spike or human error happens (oh biuggery!), and if you have the slightest difference in rigs (for example) from holy doctrine you end up majorly out of pocket.

If you want PvE to be exciting you want 2 things:

- Those damage spikes. Obviously. A heavy spawn, some unlucky 'dice rolls', and some action. Gaming is gaming.

- Being able to try new strategies. Which is currently verboten in so many fleets, because of holy doctrine.


Stagnation helps no-one. So these T2 Battleships are a bit of a weak link here. I don't see the problem with a full hull payout (like with T1 platignum) for a higher price here, but until that happens holy doctrine will continue to reduce Incursions to mind-numbing drudgery.

T1 incursions can't win challenges against T2 fleets.

So there is no real player choice. Drudgery or drudgery. Improve the Insurance for T2's and new fleets can grow, which would clearly improve game-play.


2p deposited, & I shalll now go hide in my bunker as the flames start to fly ;)



Begin mad about "holy doctrine" is kind of dumb. In solo PVE you can experiment all you like, it's only you who lose if something goes wrong.

But in cooperative gameplay, EVERYONE loses if you experiment. You decide to try a Rapid missile ship, everyone gets less pay out. Decide to try a different tank set up, you die, one less dps ship means everyone else gets longer site times (ie less pay out) etc etc.

I stopped doing incursions because I do like to tinker and experiment, so i stick to missions and anomalies rather than get mad at others for not want to suffer at my expense.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#50 - 2017-03-07 09:24:09 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
All Navy battleship hulls are horrendously overpriced now that Pirate Faction hulls have dropped so much in cost. They should really be priced in the 250-350m ISK range.


That about sums up what I had in mind which was lowering the LP cost of the navy battleships down to 250-300k LP.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#51 - 2017-03-07 13:56:48 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
That about sums up what I had in mind which was lowering the LP cost of the navy battleships down to 250-300k LP.

And while we're at it all the Navy Faction items should be cut in half. 100m ISK for a Faction BCS is stupid when they should really be going for 25-40m ISK tops.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Brok Haslack
9624968
#52 - 2017-03-08 05:26:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Brok Haslack
Jenn aSide wrote:



Begin mad about "holy doctrine" is kind of dumb. In solo PVE you can experiment all you like, it's only you who lose if something goes wrong.

But in cooperative gameplay, EVERYONE loses if you experiment. You decide to try a Rapid missile ship, everyone gets less pay out. Decide to try a different tank set up, you die, one less dps ship means everyone else gets longer site times (ie less pay out) etc etc.

I stopped doing incursions because I do like to tinker and experiment, so i stick to missions and anomalies rather than get mad at others for not want to suffer at my expense.


If it was just me I'd agree, but there are more and more people walking away because of how Incursions have been reduced to pure stagnation by the dominant pack of players ( those that control the SRF's ).

Some of us just aren't that obsessed with ISK, and instead want a general barney with the Sanshas. There is no room at the inn for us at present.


Admittedly I am about to check FW out, but it does sadden me that such a large chunk of PvE ( Incursions ) has been crushed by a group of Rich Kids.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#53 - 2017-03-08 13:20:06 UTC
Brok Haslack wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:



Begin mad about "holy doctrine" is kind of dumb. In solo PVE you can experiment all you like, it's only you who lose if something goes wrong.

But in cooperative gameplay, EVERYONE loses if you experiment. You decide to try a Rapid missile ship, everyone gets less pay out. Decide to try a different tank set up, you die, one less dps ship means everyone else gets longer site times (ie less pay out) etc etc.

I stopped doing incursions because I do like to tinker and experiment, so i stick to missions and anomalies rather than get mad at others for not want to suffer at my expense.


If it was just me I'd agree, but there are more and more people walking away because of how Incursions have been reduced to pure stagnation by the dominant pack of players ( those that control the SRF's ).

Some of us just aren't that obsessed with ISK, and instead want a general barney with the Sanshas. There is no room at the inn for us at present.


Admittedly I am about to check FW out, but it does sadden me that such a large chunk of PvE ( Incursions ) has been crushed by a group of Rich Kids.


If it's not just you, what, exactly is stopping you from forming your own Incursion group? All you need is a few people to start up one and run VGs in less expensive ships/fits till you build up. Most times the VGs are completely open.

If it's as you say and lots of people are unhappy, this should be easy right? If on the other hand it's just you being angry about PVE players who are trying to make enough isk for their next plex not wanting to suffer because you want to 'experiment', then you don't have a legitimate complaint at all.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#54 - 2017-03-08 13:36:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Jenn aSide wrote:
If it's as you say and lots of people are unhappy, this should be easy right? If on the other hand it's just you being angry about PVE players who are trying to make enough isk for their next plex not wanting to suffer because you want to 'experiment', then you don't have a legitimate complaint at all.

I think the reality is that a lot of players are complacent and would rather have the ISK from Incursions than not. Why rock the boat?

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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