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War Declaration Idea.

Author
Juliana Stinger
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-12-27 11:22:12 UTC
I think it's silly when i come to police station and tell them that i want to kill someone and they give me OK to do it for a limited time.

I don't know if anyone posted this before or not, but my idea is what if corp or alliance can wardec only if member of other corporation commited hostile action against its members in low or highsec? It would protect corporations who are trying to avoid confrontations and people would have less reasons to be in NPC corporations.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-12-27 13:06:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
If you can't deal with a wardec, you don't deserve to run a corp.
Adapt or (literally) die.

Quote:
t would protect corporations who are trying to avoid confrontations

Want to avoid PVP? Join an NPC corp. That's what they're for.
Juliana Stinger
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2011-12-27 13:22:50 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
If you can't deal with a wardec, you don't deserve to run a corp.
Adapt or (literally) die.


Answer based on very limited game view. You and many other players as i have noticed think that PVP is the only major factor in the game, however you forget not everyone is like you and some people enjoy creating, trading, researching. And my point was that CONCORD should not allow unreasonable war declaration in highsec that benefits only for pilots who enjoy shoting at defenceles. CONCORD suppose to protect high sec not to give a green light to unreasonable wardec. I wouldn't suggest that if tere was not result of this madness, many players are in NPC corp for years.

It really looks like life is much more easier for pvp players compare to the rest and ccp favors it.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#4 - 2011-12-27 13:25:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
Quote:
shoting at defenceles.

Anyone who sets up operations with no defences or backup plan is a fool, and I completely stand by my point that they deserve what they get.
I'll repeat: if you can't deal with a wardec, you don't deserve to run the corp in the first place.

There are ways to deal with wardecs, and most of them don't even involve fighting. If you're too incompetent to use them then it's your problem, not the game.

If these measures did not exist, calling for a nerf would be appropriate. As it stands though: ways to deal with wardecs do exist, and do work, but instead of trying them you come crying to the forums. Hence the complete lack of sympathy.
Valei Khurelem
#5 - 2011-12-27 13:28:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Just give people the choice on whether they want war decs god damnit and keep everything else the same, you can still get ganked individually if you go to low sec or 0.0 but gankers in high sec will get taken out by CONCORD if people don't want to be engaged by them.

It's a sandbox, we should all be able to play however we like, even if there are a few special interests out there who want to troll everyone on the boards over that idea.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium

Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#6 - 2011-12-27 13:28:53 UTC
Quote:
Just give people the choice on whether they want war decs god damnit

You do get the choice: you consent to wardecs when you make your own corp rather than being in an NPC one.
Making your own corp is about weighing up the risks vs benefits. The benefits are many, the risks are PVP. Simple as that.
Juliana Stinger
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-12-27 13:29:45 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Quote:
shoting at defenceles.

Anyone who sets up operations with no defences or backup plan is a fool, and I completely stand by my point that they deserve what they get.
I'll repeat: if you can't deal with a wardec, you don't deserve to run the corp in the first place.

There are ways to deal with wardecs, and most of them don't even involve fighting. If you're too incompetent to use them then it's your problem, not the game.


I want to remind you that we are talking about High Sec, not low or nul sec. In high sec we have CONCORD that is suppose to protect pilots, not to favore unreasonable war declaration. Do you come to Police and ask them for permition to kill someone just because you don't like his job?
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#8 - 2011-12-27 13:31:30 UTC
Quote:
I want to remind you that we are talking about High Sec, not low or nul sec. In high sec we have CONCORD that is suppose to protect pilots, not to favore unreasonable war declaration. Do you come to Police and ask them for permition to kill someone just because you don't like his job?


You misunderstand; CONCORD is not there to prevent PVP, it's there to prevent highsec becoming an utterly unplayable free-for-all.
I'll repeat this point specially for you;

Quote:
you consent to wardecs when you make your own corp rather than being in an NPC one.
Making your own corp is about weighing up the risks vs benefits. The benefits are many, the risks are PVP. Simple as that.
Valei Khurelem
#9 - 2011-12-27 13:33:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Quote:
Just give people the choice on whether they want war decs god damnit

You do get the choice: you consent to wardecs when you make your own corp rather than being in an NPC one.
Making your own corp is about weighing up the risks vs benefits. The benefits are many, the risks are PVP. Simple as that.


I'm pretty much 99.9% sure that if you were on the receiving end of compulsory war decs you'd be bitching as well, I haven't been on the receiving end fortunately but even I can see the gaps and exploits available in a lot of CCPs designs. The only reason someone would want war decs to stay the way they are is so they can have a field day running around indiscriminately ganking industrial corps etc.

The way war decs work now just make no sense, what kind of empire/police organisation goes "Sure 200 man corporation, we'll let you invade our sovereign space and take out the people running our economy and paying our taxes that fund our armies.

If someone did that to the allies of China or Russia just because they were small and defenseless they'd consider using a nuke.

Note: Just edited for some clarification on what I meant

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium

Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-12-27 13:36:55 UTC
Quote:
I'm pretty much 99.9% sure that if you were on the receiving end of compulsory war decs you'd be bitching as well

FYI, I've been on both ends of compulsary wardecs.
When I was on the receiving end, I had no issues - because I obeyed a few simple rules and used, you know: basic common sense.

When I was the one deccing: I almost single handedly dismantled their corp because they had no idea what to do and made it so damn easy for me.
A few basic measures on their part would've made things vastly more difficult, but they were a textbook case of people who started a corp under the hilariously naive belief that there would be no consequences.
Epofhis
Amped.
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2011-12-27 13:37:37 UTC
Nope, Eve doesn't work like that. If you are in an Npc corp, that is the only time that you are safe from being wardecced.

This system is working as intended.

-1. Not supported.

Before posting in Features and Ideas, please remember that Eve is in no way obligated to change based on your stupidity, ineptitude, or well honed sense of personal butthurt.

Valei Khurelem
#12 - 2011-12-27 13:39:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
It seems to me that you had it easy on both ends what would you do if someone like goonswarm came along to war dec you? Disband? It amazes me the way people tell others to stop complaining then either end up explaining just how they get round the problem by using an exploit or glitch because they know the system doesn't work.

There have been people bitching about how disbanding corps is TOO easy which pretty much screams in my face of what the players who are attacking people complaining about war deccing are about.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium

Juliana Stinger
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-12-27 13:45:01 UTC
Epofhis wrote:
Nope, Eve doesn't work like that. If you are in an Npc corp, that is the only time that you are safe from being wardecced.

This system is working as intended.

-1. Not supported.



I wasn't suggesting that there is not suppose to be wardec in highsec, it's just game looks very easy for pvp oriented players to wardec anyone they see profitable to kill with less risk.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#14 - 2011-12-27 13:46:28 UTC
Quote:
what would you do if someone like goonswarm came along to war dec you? Disband?

Same as every other war: make it not worth their time. Duh. You really are a bit slow aren't you?

Also has to be said that's a pretty unrealistic example in general, the vast majority of highsec war corps are pretty straightforward to deal with, and any that are worse than usual are probably people you've personally offended somehow.


Quote:
get round the problem by using an exploit or glitch because they know the system doesn't work.

And where exactly did I claim to use an exploit or glitch?

Also I'm going to repeat this again as certain simpletons here don't seem to get it:
Quote:
Making your own corp is about weighing up the risks vs benefits. The benefits are many, the risks are PVP. Simple as that.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#15 - 2011-12-27 13:48:55 UTC
Quote:
I wasn't suggesting that there is not suppose to be wardec in highsec, it's just game looks very easy for pvp oriented players to wardec anyone they see profitable to kill with less risk.

No, what you're suggesting is that highsec only corps should be effectively immune to PVP besides the odd suicide gank (which is obviously useless in the case of taking down PoSes etc.)
Valei Khurelem
#16 - 2011-12-27 13:52:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Well I wasn't actually talking about you specifically just people who make your kind of arguments, but if you're going to get offended that easily I don't even know why I'm bothering to argue the point with you.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium

Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#17 - 2011-12-27 14:00:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
Quote:
I don't even know why I'm bothering to argue the point with you.

Me neither, as your point seems to consist entirely of "wardec mechanics are not realistic"
(Hint to the clueless: neither is Eve in general)
and "waaaahhhhhh PVP should be consensual"
(Go back to WoW)

While many wardecs are directed at less-than-able forces*, they're also a necessity for keeping highsec industry etc. in check.

*Their fault for being so underprepared, really.
Jafit McJafitson
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2011-12-27 14:04:20 UTC
Juliana Stinger wrote:
Answer based on very limited game view. You and many other players as i have noticed think that PVP is the only major factor in the game, however you forget not everyone is like you and some people enjoy creating, trading, researching.


Notchicken in our alliance wrote a song about people like you: http://soundcloud.com/firedmn/pubbies

Eve is a massively multiplayer online game. The only real reason to have a persistent online universe is to allow players to have lasting impact on other players.

You can play cooperatively in an instanced, or normal multiplayer game, but if you kill another player in a normal multiplayer game like TF2 or COD, they'll just respawn with no long term consequences. However if you kill a player in a persistant online universe, maybe blow up his jumpfreighter full of 11 bil worth of stuff, kill his titan, take his sovereignty, etc, then your actions do have a lasting impact on that other player.

Basically the point of Eve pretty much is PvP, and you can have a nice little friendly cooperative circlejerk where you mindlessly hoard riches for no reason in any other game. Build a city in minecraft or something, because life in empire is already laughably easy and comfortable.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#19 - 2011-12-27 14:06:25 UTC
Oh and I'm reposting this, yet again, because nobody seems to be able to answer it adequately:
Quote:
Making your own corp is about weighing up the risks vs benefits. The benefits are many, the risks are PVP. Simple as that.
Valei Khurelem
#20 - 2011-12-27 14:07:23 UTC
No, we just can't be bothered answering you adequately you idiot.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium

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