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Crime & Punishment

 
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Miner Extortion by Gankers

Author
Clockwork Robot
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#41 - 2017-02-02 06:00:04 UTC
Zaha Koto wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:
oh Zaza, when will you learn that you'll never win the argument
everything has already been said..
Praise James!


ahhhh it's Dom 'deluded' Arkaral

I laugh at you most of all Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smile



I like Dom, Zaha. Log in and chat with him. Youll enjoy things a bit more.
Sasha Nemtsov
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2017-02-02 15:44:06 UTC
Like many other ways of living reasonably safely in Highsec, the purchase of a Permit is a no-brainer. You won't be ganked by the New Order - if you remain Code-compliant - and you may considerably lower your risk of being ganked by others if you follow the advice given out by many of my comrades-in-arms.

It staggers me that, no matter how much information and how many tools CCP and others provide, some citizens of Highsec just refuse to take any of it on board. And these are typically the folks who shout the loudest when the inevitable happens.

Despite the old NPE being a sort of 'Extreme Vetting' process, they still got through, but I think we all did it, because it was all there was! Now it's easier, and I suspect many of the Isk-grinding rabble will simply ignore most of it because there are plenty of guides out there about how to maximise your AFK-mining skills while being completely oblivious to the rest of the game.

Such people always remind me of race horses wearing blinkers (Am. blinders), except that race horses have a nobility about their bearing which is entirely absent from that of the Highsec miner.
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Belligerent Undesirables
#43 - 2017-02-02 15:56:58 UTC
Clockwork Robot wrote:
Zaha Koto wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:
oh Zaza, when will you learn that you'll never win the argument
everything has already been said..
Praise James!


ahhhh it's Dom 'deluded' Arkaral

I laugh at you most of all Big smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smileBig smile



I like Dom, Zaha. Log in and chat with him. Youll enjoy things a bit more.

I don't bite :P
And I'm nice when people don't try to insult me lol

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Minittor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2017-02-02 18:34:43 UTC
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:
Like many other ways of living reasonably safely in Highsec, the purchase of a Permit is a no-brainer. You won't be ganked by the New Order - if you remain Code-compliant - and you may considerably lower your risk of being ganked by others if you follow the advice given out by many of my comrades-in-arms.

It staggers me that, no matter how much information and how many tools CCP and others provide, some citizens of Highsec just refuse to take any of it on board. And these are typically the folks who shout the loudest when the inevitable happens.


I don't mine or gank them, so I have no dog it this fight. However, it seems to me that a measured response could be to re-balance the defensive capability of mining ships.

Allow miners to fly ships that up the cost for suicide ganking to a significant ratio of the cost of the mining ship. This would mean mining capability is sacrificed of course. Maybe this ends up costing more than the protection money. That should be an option in the game imo.
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Belligerent Undesirables
#45 - 2017-02-02 18:36:49 UTC
Minittor wrote:
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:
Like many other ways of living reasonably safely in Highsec, the purchase of a Permit is a no-brainer. You won't be ganked by the New Order - if you remain Code-compliant - and you may considerably lower your risk of being ganked by others if you follow the advice given out by many of my comrades-in-arms.

It staggers me that, no matter how much information and how many tools CCP and others provide, some citizens of Highsec just refuse to take any of it on board. And these are typically the folks who shout the loudest when the inevitable happens.


I don't mine or gank them, so I have no dog it this fight. However, it seems to me that a measured response could be to re-balance the defensive capability of mining ships.

Allow miners to fly ships that up the cost for suicide ganking to a significant ratio of the cost of the mining ship. This would mean mining capability is sacrificed of course. Maybe this ends up costing more than the protection money. That should be an option in the game imo.

Just another mining buff (tm)

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Areen Sassel
Dirac Angestun Gesept
#46 - 2017-02-02 18:39:55 UTC
Minittor wrote:
I don't mine or gank them, so I have no dog it this fight. However, it seems to me that a measured response could be to re-balance the defensive capability of mining ships. Allow miners to fly ships that up the cost for suicide ganking to a significant ratio of the cost of the mining ship. This would mean mining capability is sacrificed of course.


By a happy coincidence this has already been done in the form of the Procurer and Skiff.
Minittor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2017-02-02 18:53:19 UTC
For interest sake, how are these ships working out?
Sasha Nemtsov
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2017-02-02 20:07:35 UTC
Minittor wrote:

it seems to me that a measured response could be to re-balance the defensive capability of mining ships.

Allow miners to fly ships that up the cost for suicide ganking to a significant ratio of the cost of the mining ship. This would mean mining capability is sacrificed of course. Maybe this ends up costing more than the protection money. That should be an option in the game imo.


Minittor, it isn't the game or its mechanics that need to change; it's the bloody miners.
Minittor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2017-02-02 20:28:38 UTC
Ok so I can fit a Procurer to get about 64k ehp. with 5 scout drones giving 90 dps. How much what that cost to gank? Would you bother?
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#50 - 2017-02-02 20:30:21 UTC
Minittor wrote:
Ok so I can fit a Procurer to get about 64k ehp. with 5 scout drones giving 90 dps. How much what that cost to gank? Would you bother?

But what about the dank ticks?

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Minittor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2017-02-02 20:35:01 UTC
Last message not understood...
Sasha Nemtsov
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2017-02-02 22:16:32 UTC
Minittor wrote:
Ok so I can fit a Procurer to get about 64k ehp. with 5 scout drones giving 90 dps. How much what that cost to gank? Would you bother?


You'd spend all that on a barge and forgo a measly 10 million for a Permit? That's Isk-grubbing miserliness right there, miner.

I know it's going to be difficult for you to understand, but I tell you that there will be more rejoicing in MinerBumping over one miner who repents than over 99 Code compliants who've no need of repentance.

It's not about the money, miner; it's about the Code.

Minittor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2017-02-02 22:22:37 UTC
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:
Minittor wrote:
Ok so I can fit a Procurer to get about 64k ehp. with 5 scout drones giving 90 dps. How much what that cost to gank? Would you bother?


You'd spend all that on a barge and forgo a measly 10 million for a Permit? That's Isk-grubbing miserliness right there, miner.

I know it's going to be difficult for you to understand, but I tell you that there will be more rejoicing in MinerBumping over one miner who repents than over 99 Code compliants who've no need of repentance.

It's not about the money, miner; it's about the Code.



As I said I am not a miner. I note that you give a politician's answer...
Mike Adoulin
Hell House
Hell Dawn
#54 - 2017-02-03 00:12:36 UTC
Sure you're not a miner.

They never are.

As for if anybody would gank it, for CODE cost isn't an issue.

They kill Skiffs routinely, you see.


There is a formula to determine how much DPS to bring to a hit, but that's Super Duper Top Secret.

The answer, tho, tends to be Lots.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.

Omar Alharazaad
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#55 - 2017-02-03 01:10:53 UTC
Minittor, the buffs are actually working fairly well.
A tanked skiff or procurer is a freaking monster to deal with, the skiff in particular.
I own one, but it surely doesn't have mining lasers on it.

Keep in mind that while the proc's dps are low, it still sports a tank comparable to some battleships at much lower cost.

A skiff is a whole other bag of worms. I've tried baiting one with an assault frigate before, and my poor enyo barely made it out in deep structure. I was a fiery ball of 'nope nope n0pe NOPE!' hurtling back to the station asap.
In addition to a very respectable drone DPS they can mount insane tanks.
Also, they tend to come in packs.
Nothing like 15-25 bonused Hobgoblin II's swarming at your ship.

As Mike said, cost isn't the issue when it comes to CODE's actions.

They will bring what they need to get the job done.
But, while we're on the topic of cost it's important to also keep in mind that cost does not equate tank, nor should it ever.
I've dropped a billion isk cruiser before with an incursus worth maybe 13 million.

This kind of stuff happens all over the place.
The price tag isn't a substitute for flying the ship in a safe manner.

I don't really have a dog in this fight either; I quit mining ages ago and I don't really enjoy messing with miners. I generally consider what they're doing to be living hell enough without me meddling. However, I am a big fan of flying safely and much of the butthurt that hits the forums is a direct result of people acting in an unsafe fashion and encountering consequences.

And no, sir, they do not like it.
Not one bit.
Of course the ensuing anger only encourages those who done did that thing to them.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Hazel TuckerTS
Doomheim
#56 - 2017-02-03 17:07:33 UTC
See below

kiss kiss bang bang

Sasha Nemtsov
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2017-02-03 17:49:31 UTC
Hazel TuckerTS wrote:
See below


My dear, if I could 'see below' I might better be able to judge whether the prize is worth such significant lingual investment.

I'm certainly able to judge that your contributions to the C&P sub-forum thus far have done nothing to persuade me that such investment would - on the whole - be worth the effort.

A forum of any sort usually exists for the exchange of ideas and opinions rather than bodily fluids. You might reflect on that and amend your behaviour accordingly.

Or, of course, you might not.

I never go to Jita.
Luthor Ikkala
Knavish Knight Kingdom
Pandemic Horde
#58 - 2017-02-03 18:15:22 UTC
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:
Minittor wrote:
Ok so I can fit a Procurer to get about 64k ehp. with 5 scout drones giving 90 dps. How much what that cost to gank? Would you bother?


You'd spend all that on a barge and forgo a measly 10 million for a Permit? That's Isk-grubbing miserliness right there, miner.

I know it's going to be difficult for you to understand, but I tell you that there will be more rejoicing in MinerBumping over one miner who repents than over 99 Code compliants who've no need of repentance.

It's not about the money, miner; it's about the Code.



Well some miners dont think the permit stops you from ganking them. There is always excuse to gank a miner. Fit thats not correct, mining like a bot whatever. Your permit would be okay and worth the 10mil if it would prevent future ganks, but however as it does not many thinks it isnt worth paying for
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Belligerent Undesirables
#59 - 2017-02-03 18:43:08 UTC
Luthor Ikkala wrote:
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:
Minittor wrote:
Ok so I can fit a Procurer to get about 64k ehp. with 5 scout drones giving 90 dps. How much what that cost to gank? Would you bother?


You'd spend all that on a barge and forgo a measly 10 million for a Permit? That's Isk-grubbing miserliness right there, miner.

I know it's going to be difficult for you to understand, but I tell you that there will be more rejoicing in MinerBumping over one miner who repents than over 99 Code compliants who've no need of repentance.

It's not about the money, miner; it's about the Code.



Well some miners dont think the permit stops you from ganking them. There is always excuse to gank a miner. Fit thats not correct, mining like a bot whatever. Your permit would be okay and worth the 10mil if it would prevent future ganks, but however as it does not many thinks it isnt worth paying for

If you follow the Code, you can't die to gankers...
Miners die because of themselves :P

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist

Black Pedro
Mine.
#60 - 2017-02-03 18:47:13 UTC
Luthor Ikkala wrote:
Sasha Nemtsov wrote:
Minittor wrote:
Ok so I can fit a Procurer to get about 64k ehp. with 5 scout drones giving 90 dps. How much what that cost to gank? Would you bother?


You'd spend all that on a barge and forgo a measly 10 million for a Permit? That's Isk-grubbing miserliness right there, miner.

I know it's going to be difficult for you to understand, but I tell you that there will be more rejoicing in MinerBumping over one miner who repents than over 99 Code compliants who've no need of repentance.

It's not about the money, miner; it's about the Code.



Well some miners dont think the permit stops you from ganking them. There is always excuse to gank a miner. Fit thats not correct, mining like a bot whatever. Your permit would be okay and worth the 10mil if it would prevent future ganks, but however as it does not many thinks it isnt worth paying for
That just shows how poor miners, and I guess humans more generally (when the miner is actually a human that is), are at judging risk. 10M ISK is a neglible amount of money for anyone but the greenest of pilots. Even if it has only a small percent chance of staving-off a black-swan event like the loss of a exhumer, a permit is worth it.

But they are right of course - a permit doesn't prevent future ganks. It is only part of the process of mining compliantly as outlined in the Code. I will assure you though that all permit holders get the benefit of the doubt from me because of the goodwill they are demonstrating by having a permit in thier bio and what that says about that miner's views on making highsec a better place. I will always attempt to engage them is conversation before I initiate an enforcement action and usually I am rewarded with some good natured banter with a like-minded player, an act of mercy I do not always offer unpermited miners. But if need be, and the permit holder is botting, AFK mining, not recognizing The Mittani as the rightful head of the CSM or is in violation of any other of the principles spelled out in the Code, I will reluctantly gank them. It is my sworn duty as an Agent of the Code and Knight of the New Order to do so.

You get more bees with honey, and miners who play along with the fun and get on board with the New Order and follow the Code are much less likely to suffer catastrophic and sudden disintegration of their mining equipment. But if you want to rebel, or claim that you are too "principled" to get a permit, well you will eventually become our content and be left impotently shaking your fist at us while we warp off with your hard earned loot and/or free flowing tears. Either way, the Code wins like it always does.