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New Player Package?
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Endeavour Starfleet
#21 - 2011-12-27 08:00:16 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Implants are very helpful early on.


And so is a good use of a remap. But they would never know just how important tanking skills are until they are specced for damage training and keep losing your drake.

Yes if they get into EVE uni they would help them make good long term choices. However it is not enough.
Avensys
The Waterworks
#22 - 2011-12-27 08:25:23 UTC
when some fhc guys checked out Serenity this summer you'd get 1 destroyer, 4 frigates and 80m ISK as a welcome package over there Twisted
Vyl Vit
#23 - 2011-12-27 09:37:17 UTC
Roscojameson wrote:
Tell them to finish the tutorial missions, then give them 10 rifter/tristan/merllin/punisher and a handful of T1 modules and tell them to go to low-sec and kill some s***.

Ahar! Tell them to go to the low sec area where you are? FRESH MEAT? Too funny. Send a noob to low sec to "kill" something. In this kill or be killed world, somebody has to die...might as well be a noob...(is that redundant - or patently obvious?)

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-12-27 09:42:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Not just groups of noobs. Something to help noobs get to experience the game early is experienced corps. But again it takes too much trust.

Yes a noob isn't going to be able to do much inside of nullsec but mine and clean up after people clear anoms. Yet there can be opportunities to do things. Learn from experience. Watch with wonder as massive groups form.

Compared to doing l1s and 2s for months the choice is clear. But because of current mechanics the big corps cant risk that noob turning out to be a spy.


Goonswarm takes newbies (from SA) and hands them no end of Rifters, salvaging destroyers and skillbooks. We nurture them, from the point where they are newbies barely training Propulsion Jamming I, showering them with ISK, ships and scamming advice, until they are jaded bittervets with nothing but contempt for the game.

Newbie to bittervet in 6 months guaranteed~

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Endeavour Starfleet
#25 - 2011-12-27 09:48:15 UTC
Andski wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Not just groups of noobs. Something to help noobs get to experience the game early is experienced corps. But again it takes too much trust.

Yes a noob isn't going to be able to do much inside of nullsec but mine and clean up after people clear anoms. Yet there can be opportunities to do things. Learn from experience. Watch with wonder as massive groups form.

Compared to doing l1s and 2s for months the choice is clear. But because of current mechanics the big corps cant risk that noob turning out to be a spy.


Goonswarm takes newbies (from SA) and hands them no end of Rifters, salvaging destroyers and skillbooks. We nurture them, from the point where they are newbies barely training Propulsion Jamming I, showering them with ISK, ships and scamming advice, until they are jaded bittervets with nothing but contempt for the game.

Newbie to bittervet in 6 months guaranteed~


And I come from the planet mars. Roll

Goon scams aside. Again what is needed for the majority out there is more ways to isolate newbies so that they cant make off with stuff that isn't theirs if they are a spy.

This won't end the outright mistrust of noobs into the big corps but it will help significantly. Thus the modular pos really ought to be up there on the priority list.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#26 - 2011-12-27 09:53:24 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
And I come from the planet mars. Roll

Goon scams aside. Again what is needed for the majority out there is more ways to isolate newbies so that they cant make off with stuff that isn't theirs if they are a spy.

This won't end the outright mistrust of noobs into the big corps but it will help significantly. Thus the modular pos really ought to be up there on the priority list.


It isn't a scam, it's just that you can't join ;p

It's easy as hell to prevent people from running off with your corp's assets - don't give everyone corp hangar and POS roles when not needed.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-12-27 09:56:31 UTC
CCP tried to SP jumpstart new players. You started with around 900K and based on race and career lines, you got what would benefit you best.

You started up with a few 5's trained and several 4's that turned in to throw away alts for players who knew what it all meant. (out of the box Nav 5 winmatar nano scouts) Noobs just saw it as confusing and monorail character development.
Endeavour Starfleet
#28 - 2011-12-27 10:03:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Endeavour Starfleet
Andski wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
And I come from the planet mars. Roll

Goon scams aside. Again what is needed for the majority out there is more ways to isolate newbies so that they cant make off with stuff that isn't theirs if they are a spy.

This won't end the outright mistrust of noobs into the big corps but it will help significantly. Thus the modular pos really ought to be up there on the priority list.


It isn't a scam, it's just that you can't join ;p

It's easy as hell to prevent people from running off with your corp's assets - don't give everyone corp hangar and POS roles when not needed.


That is just it. Because there is not a modular system for isolation and POS control for corps. It becomes a risk to let people in. That leads to BS like alliances demanding your Full API for the duration (Read my EVEmail wtf?)

Modular means you can give that new player his isolated spot in the ship array so he cant make off with them all when he gets mad that they didn't save him from the neut that showed up.

There was a big description of the system during the vote some time back.

I know the requirements to join BTW. Just dont want to Big smile
Avensys
The Waterworks
#29 - 2011-12-27 10:08:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Avensys
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:

And I come from the planet mars. Roll


Andski is not lying to you.

Here's a GSF newbie guide written for a recruitment drive in 2010:

http://cdn.goonfleet.com/newbies/newbieguide.pdf

As for "newbies are useless in 0.0" take a look at goonswarm's (outdated) 30 day training plan (page 22 in the guide linked above):
Quote:

Day 1: Tackling Afterburner frigate: Rifter
Day 1: Basic learning skills
Day 2: Tackling MicroWarpdrive frigate: Rifter
Day 3: Salvaging destroyer: Thrasher
Day 9: Basic support skills and advanced learning skills
Day 11: DPS cruiser: Caracal
Day 11: Level 2 mission running cruiser: Caracal
Day 12: Logistics cruiser: Osprey
Day 13: ECM cruiser: Blackbird
Day 20: Ratting battlecruiser: Drake
Day 28: Reimbursement PvP battlecruiser: Drake

For the full plan and fittings see the goon wiki or any mirror (e.g. http://crackerjax.org/gwiki/GoonWIki/wiki.goonfleet.com/30_Day_Plan.html).

GSF offers a great environment for newbies (from the SA forums).
Endeavour Starfleet
#30 - 2011-12-27 10:20:23 UTC
Yes for SA forum users not the random people that get suckered in and ganked when they intend to join and not know about the SA involvement to join now can we get back on topic?

One thing I have thought that does not help is some peoples outright hostile attitude towards newer players. If you tell a newer player to "Adapt or GTFO" he/she will likely do the latter. I have actually been laughed at when I described EVE in that you lose your stuff when you die. Losing a frig may be child's play to us. But to a newer player it is a disaster. Especially when that player is alone and confused.

What I want to do is during the times I rather not salvage my missions I may ask if newer players (there is usually a starter system some jumps over) If they would like to join the group for some phat loot if they salvage them.

Stupid? Yes as with low salvage skills they will take forever to salvage a good lvl4 site. Yet for them that is a goldmine. And for the community my opinion is that it is for the best. The tiny limited effect it can have on the market from noobs following us in salvage destroyers is tiny tiny compared to the benefit of someone not quitting after their trial is up. More players = more active accounts and that means more funds to aid development for all of us.
Avensys
The Waterworks
#31 - 2011-12-27 10:48:24 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
now can we get back on topic?

the best new player package is to push new players into joining a competent corp/alliance asap.
Professor Alphane
Les Corsaires Diable
#32 - 2011-12-27 11:53:16 UTC
My idea would be to revamp the NPC corp system.

Continue the NPC corps as they are for the purposes of a holdall for people uninterested in player corps

But introduce a new 'layer' of NPC corps called new player corps. These would be restricted to (for the sake of aguement of the top of my head) 3 dozen players, and would dynamically 'spawn' when required.

There membership would be restricted to 3 months at which time you would be booted to the relevant holding corps.

This would allow new players to meet a small group of like minded players, some of whom will have at least learned the basics, who they can play with and learn from.

These corps might also have a 'recriutment' feature, where CEO's of PC corps could post a overveiw on a corp page in the newbie corps with a button to apply with.


Just an idea anyhow

[center]YOU MUST THINK FIRST....[/center] [center]"I sit with the broken angels clutching at straws and nursing our scars.." - Marillion [/center] [center]The wise man watches the rise and fall of fools from afar[/center]
Demolishar
United Aggression
#33 - 2011-12-27 11:59:15 UTC
A can full of ammo labelled "Free Stuff" - they always used to love that!
J Kunjeh
#34 - 2011-12-27 12:54:56 UTC
"Here's a Rubik's Cube...now go **** yourself"

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
Atuk Belinen
Red Bluff
#35 - 2011-12-27 13:02:42 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
The best thing for newer players to have fun and make isk is to get into a corp. Yet the barrier of entry into good corps is pretty big.

The priority needs to be more ways to isolate and prevent spies acting as newer players to deal damage. The modular POS system and new corporation controls would go a HUGE way towards that.

Then you need to completely scrap the current wardec system. 90 percent of the time it is used to grief those who don't know how to use dec shields and that prevents smaller groups from using the corp system correctly. It needs to be scrapped asap and a new better system involving benefits for actually fighting outside of keeping your ship but that is for another discussion.

My idea for massively boosting mining barge hull HP needs to be implemented. Losing your first expensive ship to a catalyst isn't going to be fun for newer members.


looolz is all i can say... i mean this guy is talking newb stuff and you are going way beyond that pos systems wardecs mining barges what new player even knows about this let alone cares. go back to you dark angle and wait till your noticed.
Pbatt
Back To Basics.
#36 - 2011-12-29 08:25:21 UTC
Yea this is getting out of hand but it is also turning into a very nice discussion about several things in eve.

But back on topic.

Ive been talking to several newer players and they really have just wanted friends and people they can trust to help them.

On the material note. Isk seems to be the best gift after good advice. The ones ive talked to say its let them experiment more than just handing out stuff.
Endeavour Starfleet
#37 - 2011-12-29 10:17:42 UTC
Not out of hand. It is a HUGE barrier for entry for newer players and leaves alliances to shun them instead of giving them isolated positions to evaluate if the person has what it takes for eve.

Lessen and isolate that risk and they will be competing for new members which is a great thing for someone just coming out of his tutorial missions.
Vyl Vit
#38 - 2011-12-29 10:35:53 UTC
Andski wrote:
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Not just groups of noobs. Something to help noobs get to experience the game early is experienced corps. But again it takes too much trust.

Yes a noob isn't going to be able to do much inside of nullsec but mine and clean up after people clear anoms. Yet there can be opportunities to do things. Learn from experience. Watch with wonder as massive groups form.

Compared to doing l1s and 2s for months the choice is clear. But because of current mechanics the big corps cant risk that noob turning out to be a spy.


Goonswarm takes newbies (from SA) and hands them no end of Rifters, salvaging destroyers and skillbooks. We nurture them, from the point where they are newbies barely training Propulsion Jamming I, showering them with ISK, ships and scamming advice, until they are jaded bittervets with nothing but contempt for the game.

Newbie to bittervet in 6 months guaranteed~

You have a gift for comedy.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2011-12-29 11:46:47 UTC
Those who are not willing to earn their stuff won't be willing to invest time/effort either.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2011-12-29 11:50:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Andski wrote:
Goonswarm takes newbies (from SA) and hands them no end of Rifters, salvaging destroyers and skillbooks. We nurture them, from the point where they are newbies barely training Propulsion Jamming I, showering them with ISK, ships and scamming advice, until they are jaded bittervets with nothing but contempt for the game.

Newbie to bittervet in 6 months guaranteed~


It's sad that you're manipulating people like that and actually ruin the whole rising of experience within the game.
On the other hand, you only find idiots who fall for that and only idiots who need a leader, so it's no big loss anyway.

Yes, that was a statement about most of goonswarm,
because nobody can tell me that 99.9% of those people aren't stupid lower class, low IQ sheep anyway.

It's called "the masses".

Too bad i don't have my own sheep. ^^
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