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To: The Developers (Need Mining Ship Protection From Human Players)

Author
Fifty Three
Doomheim
#1 - 2017-01-26 09:12:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Fifty Three
Ability to put a "Ship Control computer system" in the cargo space(the cargo hold that does not carry ore) of the mining ship and another "Ship Control computer system" on my fighting ship.

To activate it and link both ships, the player will "right click" on the mining ship and select "Link To Ship" and a window will appear showing all other fighting ships(i.e. Battleship) that has the "Ship Control computer system" installed in their cargo bays also. The user will then select the ship he/she wants to link with in that window.
To deactivate the "Ship Control computer system", the user "Right Clicks" on the Mining ship, when docked, and select the "Unlink To Ship".

Note:
-2 "Ship Control computer system" are always needed for a link.
-The fighting ship(i.e. Battleship) will act like a drone and defend the mining ship if it comes under attack.
-If the mining ship is in combat and warps out of the area, then the fighting ship(i.e. Cruiser, Battleship) will warp with it IF it has enough energy to activate warp and/or does not have its warping capability disrupted by the enemy Player.
- The Player, in order to use the "Ship Control computer system", must always be in a "Mining ship" or "Cargo Ship". It,the system, is meant for escort protection.


We are getting killed easily by people, corporations, declaring on us miners and defeceless when mining in the asteroid belt. I, yesterday, lost all my expensive Mining barge, all my equipment, and my life(the individual killed me in my pod that ejected). A mining ship, cargo ships also, cannot defend themselves from Human players that jump in with their powerful fighting ships. So this system, the "Ship Control computer system", will help us even up the odds and give us a chance to fight them back. It is a drone system, but for the large fighting ships that a person owns, because the small drones on the mining ships are no match for the Human Players big fighting ships like Cruisers, battleships etc.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#2 - 2017-01-26 09:25:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Hahaha, no.

CCP banned input multiplexing and you basically want to bring it back again by stealth. Multi box PvP with remote control module.

Worse, this proposal doesn't even need multiple characters. Just one character with multiple ships, one of which needs to be a mining barge/exhumer/frigate/industrial command. No thanks.

This is so abusable.

It wouldn't even achieve what you are trying to achieve. Wardeccers could use this very same approach and come at you in a mining barge, max tanked and supported by a fleet of 100 battleships. Just one character. Hahaha.

On top of that, you also seem to be suggesting that you can fit up ships and modules that you don't even have the skills for and then use them as a bot army to protect you. Otherwise, if you could fly them, then you can already protect yourself, by going and getting in your combat ship.

I give you a like for something original I guess. But what a terrible proposal.
Fifty Three
Doomheim
#3 - 2017-01-26 09:33:36 UTC
Yes, you have a good point, I did not think about that. I guess we miners, or even cargo ships, are easy prey permanently in the game, as what I proposed is subject to abuse.
Fifty Three
Doomheim
#4 - 2017-01-26 09:46:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Fifty Three
On further thought, perhaps a better solution is to increase the Hitpoints of the mining and cargo ships significantly. Also, could give option of a "Anti Warp disruption system" to put in the cargo hold, or install in a medium slot,maybe rig, to allow the Mining and Cargo ships to warp out to safety if under warp prevention influence by a big enemy fighting ship. As said, We have nothing to fight back at them with mining and cargo ship, so Passive systems like these will certainly help us survive.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#5 - 2017-01-26 10:22:24 UTC
Fifty Three wrote:
Yes, you have a good point, I did not think about that. I guess we miners, or even cargo ships, are easy prey permanently in the game, as what I proposed is subject to abuse.

Until CCP change their design philosophy on how they give Industrial type ships slots, PG, CPU and the like then yes, you will be. It's not great, it could be done so much better without making artificial protections, but it is what CCP have decided. So you just have to make sure you earn enough isk mining that losing the ship is only a tiny impact.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#6 - 2017-01-26 11:08:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Fifty Three wrote:
Yes, you have a good point, I did not think about that. I guess we miners, or even cargo ships, are easy prey permanently in the game, as what I proposed is subject to abuse.

Until CCP change their design philosophy on how they give Industrial type ships slots, PG, CPU and the like then yes, you will be. It's not great, it could be done so much better without making artificial protections, but it is what CCP have decided. So you just have to make sure you earn enough isk mining that losing the ship is only a tiny impact.

You mean like T1 haulers, who can either have sufficient cargo and no tank or not sufficient cargo and still not enough tank? Or Blockade Runners, who can either have sufficient cargo and compromised align time or not sufficient cargo, but align time, and their only real advantage is the cloaked warp? Or like DST which are only viable since they got a dedicated cargohold that does not require cargo expanders to be sufficient? Or like the special hold haulders, which are also only somewhat viable due to their special holds? I think you naively romanticize what "slots, PG, CPU" are able to do for a hauler ship. Roll

If anything, slots on mining ships show that they are nearly useless as well, as only 2 out of 6 mining barges have a chance to withstand an attack of 2 T1 destroyers. And that only if you compromise yield as well as after a rebalance that made then competitive with the other 4.

Having said that, and before the heads of certain people explode over the above because "Poor ganker lifes matter": This is in no way an advocacy for more tank on a Retriever. This is also not an advocacy for artificial protection mechanisms like in this suggestion.

This is, however, a reminder that the slots for freighters came with a massive reduction in raw HP to compensate for fitting space for even the most basic tank modules. Giving freighters, for instance, even more fitting room for weapons, better tank modules or propulsion inevitably means that they will lose even more HP and become even easier to gank because, for instance, contract creators do not care about that, they just need their 880k m³ moved. Nor do your RL time constraints, which will knock on your door and remind you very quickly that you have an appointment in 10 when you just finished moving 1 out of 10 trips with your tank fitted freighter, ie. you waste even more time on hauling for no gains or better rewards whatsoever. The only things that go up are your risk and your unrewarded time investments.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2017-01-26 12:14:08 UTC
Fifty Three wrote:
Yes, you have a good point, I did not think about that. I guess we miners, or even cargo ships, are easy prey permanently in the game, as what I proposed is subject to abuse.


Only as easy as the miner/hauler makes it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2017-01-26 12:18:36 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Fifty Three wrote:
Yes, you have a good point, I did not think about that. I guess we miners, or even cargo ships, are easy prey permanently in the game, as what I proposed is subject to abuse.

Until CCP change their design philosophy on how they give Industrial type ships slots, PG, CPU and the like then yes, you will be. It's not great, it could be done so much better without making artificial protections, but it is what CCP have decided. So you just have to make sure you earn enough isk mining that losing the ship is only a tiny impact.


I did try to get barges fixed in the last barge update but hit a wall of miners who couldn't look past yieldStraight
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#9 - 2017-01-26 12:21:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
I'm okay for the miners as they are now, for haulers yes I dont really understand why we have so much fitting room for actually so little more chance to survive an attack depending on the fit.

For the miners, I prefer that we need to be clever and on alert all the time, its goes with the profession I think. Personnaly I abandonned a long time ago to fit for and yield and any tank or defenses. Instead I thought about a an attack of my barge and how I could escape from what threat, and then I started using a mobile depot, to fit for warp core stabilizer, tank for nullsec rats or HS gankers, or ECM if the situation gets desperate. And it works for now.

I see on killmails of minin barges /exhumers than people just fill their cargohold with crystals, but we have actually quite a big cargohold on top of our ore hold, we have room for and mining crystals and 2-3 fits and a mobile depot.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2017-01-26 12:39:27 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
I'm okay for the miners as they are now, for haulers yes I dont really understand why we have so much fitting room for actually so little more chance to survive an attack depending on the fit.



You can greatly improve a haulers chance of not just surviving but also being an effecting ship to hunt down others, they are actually in a rather good place. Personally I don't like the fixed cargo/ore bays, I think it should always be a choice to have either max cargo or max tank, not have both at the same time.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#11 - 2017-01-26 13:54:32 UTC
So you want CCP to implement input-multiplexing themselves just after banning it? Are you high?

As a serious answer, this will only lead to people ganking your fake drone first, or organizing ganks on both ships at the same time. Please don't try to start some dumb arms race in annoying each other.

Another solution: Gankers work together, so I don't know, work with someone who can fly a battleship? This would be less mad than your idea of suiciding two of your ships simultaneously.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#12 - 2017-01-26 14:03:58 UTC
Hehehe.. its like you would want oversized drone defending you at all times even when AFK. Not gonna happen.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#13 - 2017-01-26 14:13:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Owen Levanth
Nana Skalski wrote:
Hehehe.. its like you would want oversized drone defending you at all times even when AFK. Not gonna happen.


It's not gonna happening even if it happens, people will just gank the super-drone first, then him. His idea is basically just giving himself more losses.

Hell, he didn't even think his own idea through: Since ganks are generally done fast, most people will pretty soon notice what happens if they target him first.

Step one: The mining barge gets ganked. The droned "protection"-ship goes idle.
Step two: The gankers all die to CONCORD.
Step three: The gankers re-ship. All except one, who warps back to steal the now un-droned battleship sitting empty in space.

His idea can't work. Either the drone-ship dies, then him, or he dies first, then someone steals his other ship. The problem isn't with the game, it sits right between his ears. P
Havenard
Havenard Corporation
#14 - 2017-01-26 15:06:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Havenard
You can't make a drone out of your ship, but you can assign your drones to Guard a friendly ship that is in fleet with you, as long as you all are within drone control range.

Since there are many ships in the game that use drones as primary weapon system, it seems to me that what you want already exists.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#15 - 2017-01-26 15:53:00 UTC
Havenard wrote:
You can't make a drone out of your ship, but you can assign your drones to Guard a friendly ship that is in fleet with you, as long as you all are within drone control range.

Since there are many ships in the game that use drones as primary weapon system, it seems to me that what you want already exists.

Assisting drones wouldn't work so great for mining ships. The ship being assisted normally has to cycle a weapon on a target for the drones to assist. Otherwise they just end up orbiting the assisted ship and do nothing.

It isn't really necessary anyway. Just don't mine AFK is a huge step in not being ganked. Mining is boring, so it can be hard, but reducing the risk of being ganked only takes a few simple steps.
Havenard
Havenard Corporation
#16 - 2017-01-26 16:13:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Havenard
Scipio Artelius wrote:
It isn't really necessary anyway. Just don't mine AFK is a huge step in not being ganked. Mining is boring, so it can be hard, but reducing the risk of being ganked only takes a few simple steps.


Still a silly idea, even if CCP would make controlling other people's ships possible they could just make a fleet option to follow FC's broadcasts automatically. Attack this, approach that, group up, rep my shields. All the controls already exist you just have to follow them manually.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#17 - 2017-01-26 17:04:00 UTC
what you are looking for is called friends. you can get these though isk though most just get them by being a relatively likable person
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#18 - 2017-01-26 18:23:39 UTC
Do the "drone" ships defend themselves? If not, I can just shoot them and get ez kills.

Do the drone ships respond to attacks on themselves or other drone ships? If so, I'm getting a DST, ramming as many computers into it as possible, and unleashing a legion of ships on everything dumb enough to shoot me.

We already have an anti-warp disruption system. It's called warp core stabilizers.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!

Van Doe
#19 - 2017-01-26 18:45:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Van Doe
i dont get why miners always complain about gankers.
if to much ganking appears ore prices will go up (more profit for skilled miners)
no gankers ore prices will fall (less profit for unskilled miners)

on the other hand eve is not a single player rock shooting game
hook up with ohters be like 10 miners and 1-2 flying a griffin or a ecm boat of your choice

share profit

I'm not trolling, I create content for everyone to enjoy. afk cloaky in a system near you while posting in this forum.

Julanna Egnald
Del's Industrial Strip Mining
#20 - 2017-01-26 18:51:59 UTC
Or maybe you could, I don't know, keep your ship aligned to a base/safe spot/celestial, spam dscan and hit the warp drive a soon as something nasty appears on it. Granted, it's not 100% effective, but having battleship-sized drones is just ridiculous.
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