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Disable station environment missing?

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Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#21 - 2017-01-27 00:04:14 UTC
Why even show the ship? Most of the time, the ship is covered by windows anyways. Show a screenshot of the hangar. Done.
mkint
#22 - 2017-01-27 00:23:45 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
Manually creating "artwork" (just a screenshot will probably not be "good enough") for the 200+ ships in-game for 4 station interiors (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar) = 800+ artwork-level images. Sounds like a lot more work than the render system that CCP Darwin described.


I was under the impression that the problem was keeping the render system working through new patches, and that the extra time in re-doing the render system was deemed a waste. So my proposal is that you come up with a system that won't need much or any reworking.

I understand what you're saying about having 800 ship/station combos but that doesn't necessarily mean a large patch where you download 800 seperate images, each with 4k resolution. The 4 races stations could be just 4 static background images, in fairly low quality. That way you reduce your 800 images down to 200 hulls + 4 station backgrounds. Now if you want to cut down on work as much as possible, only have 4 background images for the different stations and forget the ship. The images of the ships themselves must already be in game somewhere, for us to have things like ship icons. So you don't need to redownload anything.

Sure you sacrifice quality, but the entire point is to have a button that says 'I don't care about station interior quality, I just want performance.'

And it's not like EVE doesn't already have multiple 3D engines built into it. At least 2 or 3. Load one, take a screenshot, shut it back down. It shouldn't be any slower to load the first time than the existing station interiors, and much faster every following time. Why should it need a special renderer? I don't need a special renderer to hit printscreen.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#23 - 2017-01-27 03:18:07 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
This feature was removed because its implementation, which rendered a frame of the hangar scene and then replaced the hangar view with that frame, required a fair amount of ongoing maintenance to keep working, and yet was used by a very small percentage of players.

That said, we're aware that it had a lot of value for certain use cases and will continue to discuss what we can reasonably do to help those who used the feature.


Glad to hear you're still thinking about it. I'd love to have it back.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#24 - 2017-01-27 03:32:45 UTC
mkint wrote:
And it's not like EVE doesn't already have multiple 3D engines built into it.

Eve does not in fact have multiple 3D engines, although I am aware of at least one other game that has gone that way for reasons specific to their situation.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
mkint
#25 - 2017-01-27 03:46:27 UTC  |  Edited by: mkint
CCP Darwin wrote:
mkint wrote:
And it's not like EVE doesn't already have multiple 3D engines built into it.

Eve does not in fact have multiple 3D engines, although I am aware of at least one other game that has gone that way for reasons specific to their situation.

Really? Space, character creator, and CQ all use the same engine? I would also have assumed maybe the map would use a different engine, and possibly PI (considering at the time of release a dev said most of the development time of PI was spent getting the rendering to work.) Maybe I'm misusing the word "engine." I knew (or at least read) everything, at least at one point, was under the carbon umbrella, but I also kinda just assumed that was more like 2/3 a trademark stamp and 1/3 similar to oracle application interoperability than anything.

edit: my point still stands about printscreen as long as there's at least 1 3D engine.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
FearlessLittleToaster
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2017-01-27 03:52:05 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:

Eve does not in fact have multiple 3D engines, although I am aware of at least one other game that has gone that way for reasons specific to their situation.


The specific wording of your response leaves open the possibility that Eve has multiple 3D engines for reasons NOT specific to CCP's situation.

So, can you confirm or deny that Eve has multiple 3D engines because every year after the Eve Vegas pub crawl another one just... appears somehow, in some part of the game?
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#27 - 2017-01-27 07:19:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
mkint wrote:
CCP Darwin wrote:
mkint wrote:
And it's not like EVE doesn't already have multiple 3D engines built into it.

Eve does not in fact have multiple 3D engines, although I am aware of at least one other game that has gone that way for reasons specific to their situation.

Really? Space, character creator, and CQ all use the same engine? I would also have assumed maybe the map would use a different engine, and possibly PI (considering at the time of release a dev said most of the development time of PI was spent getting the rendering to work.) Maybe I'm misusing the word "engine." I knew (or at least read) everything, at least at one point, was under the carbon umbrella, but I also kinda just assumed that was more like 2/3 a trademark stamp and 1/3 similar to oracle application interoperability than anything.

edit: my point still stands about printscreen as long as there's at least 1 3D engine.

I remember one developer said that they used what they had when doing character creator, and they essentially modified the shipspinning to make avatar spinning.

Carbon is a name for a framework, not an engine. This will explain much I think.

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Memphis Baas
#28 - 2017-01-27 23:16:03 UTC
mkint wrote:
Really? Space, character creator, and CQ all use the same engine?


I don't know anything about engines, but looking at the descriptive page for the Unreal Engine 4, it can do avatars, terrain, effects like fire / flowing water, AI scripts, full audio, cutscenes, camera control, etc. The engine is pretty much the framework for a full game, just needs "content".

So CCP could very well call the EVE framework their "engine" and it can do CQ, spaceflight, the map, everything you listed, possibly even DUST and Valkyrie. Yeah it may call different sub-components to do it, but it is their engine and there's only one of it.

In any case, as examples, Fallout 4 is using Unreal, Dragon Age Inquisition is using Frostbite, Skyrim is using Creation, and I'm guessing for whatever reason that one example CCP Darwin mentions, they decided to do something like pay for licenses for Frostbite, Unreal, and Creation, and use pieces of all 3 instead of creating their own single engine that can handle all that their game needs to do.
Aves Asio
#29 - 2017-01-27 23:36:15 UTC
I have to say this, im sorry but your post triggered me.

Fallout 4 is using the worst engine ever created. Its a in house engine that they modified a bit. They used the same engine to make skyrim, fallout nv, fallout 3 and maybe previous elder scrolls games, im not sure cos i havent played them. A simple way to check if its the same engine is to see if there are climbable ladders ingame.

I just cant let you compare something that bad to unreal engine.
Zirashi
Cyclical Destruction
#30 - 2017-01-28 10:55:20 UTC
This thread is ridiculous. I was expecting an actual problem with the game like "my game drops to 5 fps in station" or any other sort of unplayable condition. Instead I found people complaining that their GPU is doing crazy things like graphics processing while they play a videogame. What's next, "help, help, why are my headphones are making noise when I turn on audio?"

And I seriously doubt anyone with a 1080ti is having performance problems and running at minimum settings because of station view. If they are, sounds like they need help with building computers.
Elithiel en Gravonere
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2017-01-28 11:16:23 UTC
I really dig the captain's quarter's aspect because it's the only view you get to sit down have a coffee whilst your character is doing the same, go through some paperwork. I couldn't care less about the ships hangar to be honest. But the captain's quarter's is really cool. It feels like a big aspect of Eve is missing by not actually being able to do anything more with your character than sit in a room. And now in citadels, you can't even do that.
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