These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Missions & Complexes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Average (just roughly) loot/salvage and LP per lvl 4 mission
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Rei Y
Minmatar Citizen 90483936 Corporation
#21 - 2017-01-22 12:33:02 UTC
depends A LOT on the mission.
LP - depends on your skill (security connections) and system security status. for me, LP rewards range from just under 2k to 8394 for hardest missions (extravaganzas, worlds collide, etc.)
loot - depends, can be from under 1mil to 10mil, excluding things like Zor's expensive implant, Elite Drone AI which went up in price, or a chance of ~20mil implant drop in Angel Extravaganza. you can get very expensive loot from faction tags, but those ships dont have bounties, so it kinda events ou.
salvage - also from under 1mil to about 10-12 mil.
Harrison Croft
Obermeier - Hoffmann Explorations
#22 - 2017-01-22 15:42:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Harrison Croft
I am very grateful for all the input you guys are giving. In the medium term I will probably switch to blitzing because of the feedback i got. I understand now why It is so difficult to give average numbers on loot and salvage. Also I just like digging myself into such kind of problems. So I know all of this is basically a waste of time and I'd get more with just blitzing. But for me it is fun to find it out. When I find the time I will try the version where another person loots for me while noting the values for each mission down just for my own interest and research. And since this thread is still getting attention I decided to share my thoughts behind my request more detailed. Maybe it can be of any use for another player at some point.


B: Bounty
P: Payout
PE: Payout Extra
L: Loot
S: Salvage
SLF: Security Level Factor (actually no one seems to know how this fuction looks like, so I treated it as a factor, knowing that it can cause error)
SC: Security Connections (factor)
N: Negotiation (factor)
LP: Loyality Points
LPC: Loyality Points Conversion (isk/LP)

If I got everything right the total value of a mission (TV) in isk (this says nothing about isk/h) is:
TV = B+L+S+SLF*[N*(P+PE)+LP*LPC*SC]

Now my situation was that I wanted to find out which version is more profitable for me:
Version 1: I just do full clear for a corporation with a high LPC.
Version 2: I do full clear for a corporation with medium LPC but another person is salvaging and looting and I get half of his earnings in addition. (Note that this is timewise the same for me.)
Note: Just to make it absolutely clear again – I know blitzing is better than both of those versions!

To get started in any way I compared a single mission (which one does not matter) for both versions. That means:
B1=B2, L1=0, S1=0, P1=P2, PE1=PE2, N1=N2, LP1=LP2, SC1=SC2

The turning point is when the total value of version 1 is equal to the total value of version 2:
TV1 = TV2
B1+SLF1*[N1*(P1+PE1)+LP1*LPC1*SC1] = B1+(L2+S2)/2+SLF2*[N1*(P1+PE1)+LP1*LPC2*SC1]

At this point I made the assumption that SLF1 = SLF2 because I could not find information on how exactly the security level works on payouts and LP. And I already saw that it would work out for the formular for what I have in mind if I do this. So from here on the formular is ment for the comparison of the two variants only when both have the same security level.
SLF*P*N+SLF*PE*N+SLF*LP*LPC1*SC = (L+S)/2+SLF*P*N+SLF*PE*N+SLF*LP*LPC2*SC

Cleaning this up leads to:
(L+S) = 2(LPC1-LPC2)*SC*SLF*LP

Now SLF*LP is the amount of LP you actually get paid. And since I assumed that both versiosn have the same security level it is the same for both. So I just call it Effective LP (ELP).
L+S = 2(LPC1-LPC2)*SC*ELP

Now let's make an example. LPC1 is 3000, LPC2 is 1600 and Security Level is 3:
L+S = 2*(3000-1600)*1,3*ELP
L+S = 3640 * ELP

This means on a mission that gives 4000LP the loot has only to be higher than 14,56 million isk for version 2 (looting version) to be more profitable.

The problem however is, that it is of no use if I get a mission, do it in one of the versions and then realize after i know the loot numbers: 'Oh dear, I should have done this mission the other version'. Neither can I undo it nor do I get the exact same mission when going to the other agent. And that is why I wanted the average numbers. To find out which version is the more profitable one in the (very) long run.
Eleanor Roscommon
Bleu Femme Felis
#23 - 2017-01-22 15:45:38 UTC
pinkajoo wrote:
Old, old pro synergy report so prices might be different. Save the page, or copypaste the table into your spreadsheet.

You are welcome.

https://sites.google.com/site/prospersynergy/contact-us/looting-report


That may be exactly what the OP was looking for. But now that he has this, and after admitting he's run about 50 missions already, he should have had a very good idea of what to expect. I think he wanted someone to tell him, instead of figuring it out himself. He tasks us, and then criticizes the remarks. What a jerk.
Harrison Croft
Obermeier - Hoffmann Explorations
#24 - 2017-01-22 15:55:59 UTC
Eleanor Roscommon wrote:

That may be exactly what the OP was looking for. But now that he has this, and after admitting he's run about 50 missions already, he should have had a very good idea of what to expect. I think he wanted someone to tell him, instead of figuring it out himself. He tasks us, and then criticizes the remarks. What a jerk.


You totally go me there. I am lazy and just don't want to put any effort into it. Also why ask data from thousands of missions if you have a juicy statistically sufficient stack of 50 samples.
pinkajoo
#25 - 2017-01-22 19:08:18 UTC
Well, the direct ISK injections every 20minutes, agent payouts and loyalty points can be used immediately after each mission. Adding salvaging and looting to that, you're spending time that might have been used to get another mission and finishing it. And the loots, salvage or the products from those salvage are still in material form, not liquid ISK that you can throw about. You'll still need to transport them and list them into the market, further eating into your limited gametime. This is what the blitzing community wants to point out.

I still loot and salvage, because it is part of my missioning downtime: missioning is very repetitive and breaks are needed. During these breaks, I use the salvage I got to make some rigs, make a trip to the nearest market to buy ammo and list some of the loot/rigs I got from my missions, update market orders, etc.. I feel that this is a more sustainable mode of gameplay, and keeps my interest in missioning longer.

So do what you think is right for you, within your time limitations and personal interests. Everything else is noise :D
Harrison Croft
Obermeier - Hoffmann Explorations
#26 - 2017-01-22 19:30:19 UTC
Hi pinkajoo,

you said
pinkajoo wrote:
Well, the direct ISK injections every 20minutes, agent payouts and loyalty points can be used immediately after each mission. Adding salvaging and looting to that, you're spending time that might have been used to get another mission and finishing it. And the loots, salvage or the products from those salvage are still in material form, not liquid ISK that you can throw about. You'll still need to transport them and list them into the market, further eating into your limited gametime. This is what the blitzing community wants to point out.


This is from my original post:
Quote:
run missions for a corp with okish isk/LP but having someone around who salvages for me and we share 50:50.


This is from my last post:
Quote:
Version 2: I do full clear for a corporation with medium LPC but another person is salvaging and looting and I get half of his earnings in addition. (Note that this is timewise the same for me.)
Note: Just to make it absolutely clear again – I know blitzing is better than both of those versions!
Takh Meir'noen
24th Imperial Recon
#27 - 2017-01-26 19:10:28 UTC
I don't really blitz that often. I run with a Paladin, and my cargo is a Large Container, a Medium Container (labeled #1 Hold and #2 Hold), an MTU, and a set of multi-standard crystals.

I arrive in a pocket, drop my MTU, and start killing stuff. Unless I need them out to kill frigates, I have 5 salvage drones working the moment the first ship blows up. While I'm clearing the pocket the MTU/salvage drones keep up pretty well. Most pockets, when I blow up the last ship I have 5 or less ships to loot/salvage. I run 3 tractor beams and typically don't shoot things till they hit 47k, so I'm tractoring in wrecks during the clear.

Scoop the MTU, loot the crate it drops, and pull in the drones. Move on to next pocket. I don't know how much extra time I'm spending on my looting most of the time, but it's not significant. The full clear is adding way more time versus a blitz, compared to the simultaneous looting. After I've killed everything, I individually control the salvage drones; target 5 wrecks and send a drone to each wreck, they plow through them that way, instead of all 5 on one wreck.

When I get back to the station I empty the Hold containers into a station container named, "to Market". Because my standings with the station are of course sky high, I have no reprocessing fees, and I reprocess most of the stuff under these two filters.

Reprocess (Specific) - All smartbombs, all stasis grapplers, all warp disruption field generators. The reprocessed value of these is pretty much always higher than the standing Buy Orders at the market.

Reprocess (General) - < 300K value + < Meta 4 + !Salvage + !Commodity + !Implant - All this stuff just gets melted down because the reprocess value is higher/close enough to the standing Buy Order value of these modules.

Whatever is left is either meta4 or worth 300K+ isk. About once a week, or when the station container gets close to 60K m³, I take all the stuff, which is basically minerals, salvage, implants, and valuable modules, and contract it to my hauler/market alt. He picks the load up and takes it to market, dumping all but the valuable stuff into Buy Orders, and puts up Sell Orders for anything where I stand to make 100K+ more than the Buy Order.

I'd say ultimately I make about what the estimated value of the loot is, after factoring in the valuable sell orders. Most missions I end up making 5-15 million from the loot/salvage combined. A few missions I make 20-50 million. About 50% of the value is typically the salvage, 40% from the minerals, and about 10% from the modules, setting aside outliers like elite drone AIs or rare implants.

I hang onto loyalty points till I get to 80K+ and typically dump them into a top-grade implant, which the market alt will play .01 PVP with for a week till it sells.

I don't know what my income/hour is, because I've never really cared enough to check. Between bounties, mission completion, loyalty points, and loot/salvage... I probably average 50M an hour. Some days I'd say more like 25, some days more like 100, but probably 50, average.

I also rarely decline missions; I like the variety. Since pretty much all of my ISK goes into funding Alpha-Clone PVP--it's not like I really need the cash. :P
aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#28 - 2017-01-26 21:59:46 UTC
Ion Kirst wrote:
There's no money to be made in salvaging. It's been that way for a few years. It's better to just solo L4s, and do them for the bounties, and LPs. There are a few missions as Chainsaw mentioned that give tags. Even then you may have to travel to a station that is giving the best price to sell them. In some missions you can also drop a mobile tractor, and grab the loot when you're done. Yes, 50% or more of it is junk.

To have someone salvage for you, and then split it? To much energy spent too little reward, for both .

-Kirst

LOL, you keep thinking that.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#29 - 2017-01-26 23:18:15 UTC
aldhura wrote:
LOL, you keep thinking that.

If you enjoy salvaging more power to you. Personally I detest it, but to each their own...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#30 - 2017-01-27 00:28:39 UTC
There is money to be made in looting/salvaging, however there is more money to be made by grabbing and running another mission.

there is an example of a new player looting/salvaging in 0.0 making ~60m/hr. I assume you can up that a bit with skills, but that suggests a fairly low cap on income. This is also in nullsec where other players are just endlessly killing rats in anoms. Unless you are getting bookmarks from a bunch of mission runners I just don't see loot/salvage as being worth it. Looting/salvaging only your own wrecks, just gets a big ole meh from me.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Takh Meir'noen
24th Imperial Recon
#31 - 2017-01-27 02:46:41 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
There is money to be made in looting/salvaging, however there is more money to be made by grabbing and running another mission.

there is an example of a new player looting/salvaging in 0.0 making ~60m/hr. I assume you can up that a bit with skills, but that suggests a fairly low cap on income. This is also in nullsec where other players are just endlessly killing rats in anoms. Unless you are getting bookmarks from a bunch of mission runners I just don't see loot/salvage as being worth it. Looting/salvaging only your own wrecks, just gets a big ole meh from me.


By the math and numbers, I completely agree with you. In fact, back when I had to switch ships can come back out in a Noctis I frequently just left all my wrecks or let a newbie friend salvage loot and split it with him. Now that I can full-clear and loot with a marauder without re-shipping, I enjoy the side income from loot/salvage. I know it's better money to just blitz 10 select missions and decline the rest, but I also know I get bored too quickly doing that, too.
Orin Solette
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2017-01-29 06:59:10 UTC
In my experience, loot from L4 missions that I run range from under 1mil (Drone missions, NOT worth salvaging/looting), to 20mil (missions with a lot of BS rats). The average is probably ~7-9m for me per mission.

If you can blitz quickly, blitzing is probably better.
Previous page12