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Inconsistencies in EVE

First post
Author
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#81 - 2011-12-29 22:45:03 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:


It is ether the Kinetic force of the Missile / Shrapnel / Shockwave or it is the Heat / Fire.

Explosions are in essence Kinetic Force sometimes Superheated.


Very simple explanation - kinetic and thermal energy. Explosive ammunition. Explosive damage pattern. Explosion resistant armour type.

Explosive shell - energy is contained in shell, released on impact. No energy needed to propel or superheat the charge. Chemical/nuclear reaction does the job.

Kinetic railgun - energy is delivered to particle, which is sent at very high speed.

Thermal - plasma is accelerated, hits the target and burns

EM - wavelength is focused, light/particles is used to burn and irradiate enemy ship.

Explosive - missile warheads, artillery shells, shrapnel bombs, small caliber explosive autocanon rounds.

Thermal missile burns on vitcim, EM missile emits EMP blast, Explosive missile explodes in spherical manner violently, kinetic missile focuses on directed explosion for impact, penetrating focused inwards damage.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again

Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#82 - 2011-12-29 22:51:36 UTC
Opertone wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:


It is ether the Kinetic force of the Missile / Shrapnel / Shockwave or it is the Heat / Fire.

Explosions are in essence Kinetic Force sometimes Superheated.


Very simple explanation - kinetic and thermal energy. Explosive ammunition. Explosive damage pattern. Explosion resistant armour type.

Explosive shell - energy is contained in shell, released on impact. No energy needed to propel or superheat the charge. Chemical/nuclear reaction does the job.

Kinetic railgun - energy is delivered to particle, which is sent at very high speed.

Thermal - plasma is accelerated, hits the target and burns

EM - wavelength is focused, light/particles is used to burn and irradiate enemy ship.

Explosive - missile warheads, artillery shells, shrapnel bombs, small caliber explosive autocanon rounds.

Thermal missile burns on vitcim, EM missile emits EMP blast, Explosive missile explodes in spherical manner violently, kinetic missile focuses on directed explosion for impact, penetrating focused inwards damage.


Still, it becomes highly ridiculous when you consider minmatar long range ammo.
Nuclear vs. Carbonized Lead.
Apparently a nuclear warhead does the same amount of damage (although a different damage type) as an old fashioned lead cannonball... yeeeaahhh Cool

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2011-12-30 17:16:44 UTC
-High gravity things like suns have no effect on projectile trajectories.
-Infinite and instant supply of ship's crews. Blow up a ship, ship crew dead. Dock, change ships, it's instantly fully crewed. Use that ship for a suicide gank, or just self-destruct. Ship crew dead. Dock, change ships, it's instantly crewed..... ad infinitum.
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#84 - 2011-12-30 18:14:15 UTC
Defecanda wrote:
The Jovians: Big black hole of "too lazy to write in good lore"

Also, the 800 lb gorilla in the room that shouldn't be addressed:

Relative motion.


Yeah how is it that my ship reaches a speed cap while the engines are blasting full? And how is it that I slow down without firing engines in the opposite direction...

CCP needs to hire a physicist in the same way WoW needs to hire an econoimist...

I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

II. The relationship between an object's mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors (as indicated by their symbols being displayed in slant bold font); in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector.

III. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#85 - 2011-12-30 18:39:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Corina Jarr
Shizuken wrote:
Defecanda wrote:
The Jovians: Big black hole of "too lazy to write in good lore"

Also, the 800 lb gorilla in the room that shouldn't be addressed:

Relative motion.


Yeah how is it that my ship reaches a speed cap while the engines are blasting full? And how is it that I slow down without firing engines in the opposite direction...

CCP needs to hire a physicist in the same way WoW needs to hire an econoimist...

I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

II. The relationship between an object's mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors (as indicated by their symbols being displayed in slant bold font); in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector.

III. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

What you see is just an exhaust.

The engine operates in subspace, where (in EVE lore) there is drag. However, while it is limited in sublight speeds, it does allow us to travel past the speed of light (the point where modern physics breaks).
This is also why we can turn without noticeable thrusters.


Also, Newtons laws are not absolute...
Telegram Sam
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2011-12-30 19:31:25 UTC
Shizuken wrote:
Defecanda wrote:
The Jovians: Big black hole of "too lazy to write in good lore"

Also, the 800 lb gorilla in the room that shouldn't be addressed:

Relative motion.


Yeah how is it that my ship reaches a speed cap while the engines are blasting full? And how is it that I slow down without firing engines in the opposite direction...

CCP needs to hire a physicist in the same way WoW needs to hire an econoimist...

I. Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.

II. The relationship between an object's mass m, its acceleration a, and the applied force F is F = ma. Acceleration and force are vectors (as indicated by their symbols being displayed in slant bold font); in this law the direction of the force vector is the same as the direction of the acceleration vector.

III. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Remember the old MMO Jumpgate? It had a physics model like that. Objects in a vacuum with no air resistence or gravity effects. You ship would just keep going virtually forever if you didn't reverse around and apply thrusters. Similarly, it would continue in the original line it was traveling until you applied thrusters to alter your course. In other words, you could get your ship going in a direction, then spin 360 degrees like a ball firing at targets, all while still following the same line of travel. (BTW, I think the old Jumpgate is a free download now, and they keep a server up for people to play around on).
Alara IonStorm
#87 - 2011-12-30 19:53:35 UTC
Opertone wrote:

Very simple explanation - kinetic and thermal energy. Explosive ammunition. Explosive damage pattern. Explosion resistant armour type.

Thermal missile burns on vitcim, EM missile emits EMP blast, Explosive missile explodes in spherical manner violently, kinetic missile focuses on directed explosion for impact, penetrating focused inwards damage.

None of that explains away the fact that the dmg is still Kin or Kin / Therm.

It does however make it odder that an Explosive Missile or Nuclear round that obviously does both Kinetic and Thermal Dmg would be more effective against armor then purely Kinetic Damage when Thermal Damage is stronger against Shields then Armor. The 2 Dmg types that make up the Explosive Weapons in game should not do more Dmg to Armor and their in lies the inconsistency.

It is an unneeded Damage Type that does nothing different then the other 3 in terms of realistic Damage. It's only purpose is a Game Play Mechanic. It is an inconsistency accepted for balance reasons.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2011-12-30 19:54:11 UTC
8000 years of "Dark Ages".

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Chesh Aideron
Androse Trinket Haus
#89 - 2011-12-30 19:56:23 UTC
The biggest inconsistency of EVE is the players thinking there needs to be consistency in a science fiction based MMORPG.

On another note... F*cking magnetars, how the hell do they work?
Jake Taranogas
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#90 - 2011-12-30 20:33:42 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
The fact that you only have engines on one side of your ship. To turn around, slow down and be as agile as the ones we have now, you'd need them on every face.

Howcome we can warp through planets?

Why is a fighter drone 23m long yet 5,000m3 in mass?

How did I get here?


I don't think you would need rockets on every side. The engines would have to be very controllable though, so that you could focus more HP on one side than the other.
Alara IonStorm
#91 - 2011-12-30 20:35:16 UTC
Has the you can shoot them from any side and still do the same amount of Armor Damage come up yet?
Opertone
State War Academy
Caldari State
#92 - 2011-12-31 01:11:10 UTC
large ships have no smaller turrets. Every ship has 8 turrets.

We need a capital with 64 different turrets for spectacular gun show.

No are of effect weapons.

Stupid warp drive - instant escape from PvP. Totally nuts. Should be warp when cap is full and guns not active. Not at any time - cause it is PvP breaking.

This post sums up why the 'best' work with DCM inc.

WARP DRIVE makes eve boring

really - add warping align time 300% on gun aggression and eve becomes great again

Velicitia
XS Tech
#93 - 2011-12-31 01:20:11 UTC
Opertone wrote:
large ships have no smaller turrets. Every ship has 8 turrets.

We need a capital with 64 different turrets for spectacular gun show.

No are of effect weapons.

Stupid warp drive - instant escape from PvP. Totally nuts. Should be warp when cap is full and guns not active. Not at any time - cause it is PvP breaking.


fit a point. no more ability for the other guy to GTFO...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Emiko Luan
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2012-01-01 20:52:12 UTC
Opertone wrote:
large ships have no smaller turrets. Every ship has 8 turrets.

We need a capital with 64 different turrets for spectacular gun show.

No are of effect weapons.

Stupid warp drive - instant escape from PvP. Totally nuts. Should be warp when cap is full and guns not active. Not at any time - cause it is PvP breaking.


It seems capsuleer technology can't operate that many guns at once, it's not that fancy.

Smart bombs and Bombs are aoe, explosions in space don't have a concussive blast wave like in an atmosphere so they won't have a radius large enough to matter in most fleet situations (enough to massively increase the lag by working out aoe damage constantly, there's a reason aoe is niche.)

Use a point. You should have to dedicate slots to pvp fits. There are no points or warping in perpetuum though, maybe you should try that and see if it works for you.

Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
8000 years of "Dark Ages".


The technology was very advanced, and it's possible that the colonists were not the same people that invented them. Nobody at ibm even knows how the chips they make go together enough to make one from scratch.

--
Explosive damage works because of the damage pattern of an shrapnel explosion is different to what most people envision as a kinetic (high force on a single spot), though the numbers are a little weird I agree.

+welcome to my world+ http://emikochan13.wordpress.com http://emikochan13.deviantart.com

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#95 - 2012-01-01 22:33:35 UTC
Ahem three dark ages not just 1.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Cindy Marco
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#96 - 2012-01-02 00:32:52 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
8000 years of "Dark Ages".


Making high tech components is not easy. The most advanced thing you can really hope to make with out special equipment is a diode. But it won't be a very good one.

Useful transistors are completely outside the realm of possibility. You could make an extremely primitive one, but it takes a long time, and still requires special materials. You would end up with something that would be useless for anything except an extremely crappy radio.

So once the spare parts run out, its over. Your dropping from a tech level that can colonize other planets, to a 1940's level at best. I doubt any civilization would survive that.
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#97 - 2012-01-02 20:49:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Shizuken
[-] Edit for double post
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
#98 - 2012-01-02 20:50:04 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:


The engine operates in subspace, where (in EVE lore) there is drag.


This sounds like a load of BS rationalization from CCP to lighten their programming and development workload. I think the current system is much easier to implement and balance for gameplay than something based on Newtonian Physics. But to me it seems like and artifice.
Mukuro Gravedigger
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#99 - 2012-01-02 22:00:13 UTC
My armaments can run out of ammo, but my drones shooting at the same targets for longer spans never runs out, much less needs to be reloaded.

People living on planets seem to have no issues with capsuleers extracting raw materials from their grounds.

My ship can get "stuck" on asteroids, gates, and stations, but these same items will allow another to shoot at me without offering any forms of protection.

At the minimum, 2500 pieces of tritanium (iron ore) are required to manufacture one shuttle that has a full range of a capacity energy core, engines, life support, and other meager computer functions. Yet to build a frigate, numerous other minerals are required to get nearly the same effect.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#100 - 2012-01-02 22:25:11 UTC
CCP Navigator wrote:
How I shot web?


Best I can figure, it's a function of particle velocity being inhibited by magnetic fields, introduction of matter, or anything that otherwise prevents the engines from functioning as they should.

A good example would be introduction of a greater density of Hydrogen atoms in the particle stream, or magnetic fluctuations which disrupt the particles in the various reaction chambers. That's using the assumption that the engines are using a form of Particle Acceleration/Fusion technology.
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