These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why do EVE players love gankers so much?

Author
Kush Monster
Big Tobacco
#41 - 2012-01-03 22:34:40 UTC
Byron D wrote:
Well, first and foremost the OP is using a flawed premise (eve as rl) , which, in turn, can only lead to faulty set of conclusions.

Splitting the eve players in two categories is ofc, oversimplyfing things, but for the sake of the argument, I'll do it. There are the butterflies, who come to the sandbox to seek new thrills, new experiences, and do things that they could/would not do irl. And then there are the nesters. People who even in a game feel the need to build, to be nice, to work hard and put emhapsis on the same set of values that dominate their real life. Or more simply put, there are the people with enthusiasm and creativity, and then there are ppl with the imaginative capabilities of a brick.

Now, of course that the former will look at the latter and say : " You tards are doing a repetitive boring work in a video game, proving that your iq is well below room temperature in celsius", and ofc they are gonna be answered with : "you disfunctional sociopaths can't do anything else other than ruin ppl's work".

But this is where the equality in the debate ends. Because where the creative players challenge themselves to find new ways to wage this conflict, the little working ants just mumble some insults about how everyone who doesn;t play the game the way they think it should be played is a bastard, and then go back to doing what they were doing. I could go for a big ending phrase for my ramblings, but nothing that I could come up with would match Helicity's rant , so I'll leave you with that.


well put.

alco helicity's post lol

"During the run-up to HAGII I received a comment on the blog, it compared me to various historical figures, each responsible for countless atrocities. That in itself is kind of flattering, though I’m afraid I must admit I do not yet have the resources to round up and gas a random ethnic group purely for my own amusement. We’re working on it."

How to make mining enjoyable: An Autocannon, Faction Ammo, Your Mouth

Ludi Burek
Exit-Strategy
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#42 - 2012-01-04 02:13:38 UTC
Byron D wrote:
Well, first and foremost the OP is using a flawed premise (eve as rl) , which, in turn, can only lead to faulty set of conclusions.

Splitting the eve players in two categories is ofc, oversimplyfing things, but for the sake of the argument, I'll do it. There are the butterflies, who come to the sandbox to seek new thrills, new experiences, and do things that they could/would not do irl. And then there are the nesters. People who even in a game feel the need to build, to be nice, to work hard and put emhapsis on the same set of values that dominate their real life. Or more simply put, there are the people with enthusiasm and creativity, and then there are ppl with the imaginative capabilities of a brick.

Now, of course that the former will look at the latter and say : " You tards are doing a repetitive boring work in a video game, proving that your iq is well below room temperature in celsius", and ofc they are gonna be answered with : "you disfunctional sociopaths can't do anything else other than ruin ppl's work".

But this is where the equality in the debate ends. Because where the creative players challenge themselves to find new ways to wage this conflict, the little working ants just mumble some insults about how everyone who doesn;t play the game the way they think it should be played is a bastard, and then go back to doing what they were doing. I could go for a big ending phrase for my ramblings, but nothing that I could come up with would match Helicity's rant , so I'll leave you with that.



This, good sir, is a very well put together post.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#43 - 2012-01-04 02:33:51 UTC
Why?

Because it's one of the places where teenage boys (and wannabe teengae boys) can indulge their fantasies with relatively little censure. They can also go deeper with mutual manual self-gratification congratulatory postings.

'tis just part of the wonderful diversity that is our eve.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.

Smodab Ongalot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2012-01-04 05:47:03 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
mutual manual self-gratification congratulatory postings.


Ahh yes, thanks for that one!

where's my towel?
Darrow Hill
Vodka and Vice
#45 - 2012-01-04 16:46:21 UTC
It's all in the reaction.

If gank targets didn't cry in local and whine like children on the forums, it probably wouldn't be as common as it is now. It's been this way for over 8 years, and yet week after week you see the same damn posts with the same damn arguments begging for changes.

The profit motivation for ganking will always exist, but seriously; HTFU and HAGV will be a snoozefest.


No tears - no fun.

Big tears - big smiles all around.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-01-04 17:07:05 UTC
Smodab Ongalot wrote:


Confirming donation received! Your isk should be enough to silence the mining laser of at least another 12 mackinaws! Twisted

To answer the OPs question, I do this because it is a fun change of pace. If you make your way though the 3 pages of exhumer kills on my kb, you'll see that I didn't always do this. I just got bored of low-sec for a bit, and this is something different.

I guess to the non-ganker, you wouldn't see this as much fun. Killing a defenseless miner in high-sec is not much of a challenge, I'll admit that. Once you know the mechanics and have the proper tools, it's just a matter of warping and pressing f1. The challenge comes in from seeing how fast you can do them, how many pods you can grab, the thrill of organizing friends to the party, obtaining the ships and modules to suicide, getting good warp-ins, etc, etc.



edit: In case that is too many words, you may just want to watch this:
http://vimeo.com/33894168


Have I told you that you're my personal jesus yet?

Dodixie > Hek

Smodab Ongalot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2012-01-04 17:32:22 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:


Have I told you that you're my personal jesus yet?


The sentiment is greatly appreciated.

A new video is in the making, will be posted soon.
CeneUJiti
Doomheim
#48 - 2012-01-04 18:43:04 UTC  |  Edited by: CeneUJiti
Because EVE had drawn in a completely unproportional number of sociopaths and sadists. All those kids who could only find joy in breaking/stealing other kids toys and smashing their sand castles. All of them who actually play MMOs end up with EVE.

Though, while loud on forums and dictating the style of play for everyone in game; they are actually a small minority. Most of EVE players do just nothing but carebearing in Empire. But CCP doesn't care about carebears; and never will. PVPers who are in it for the tears are the prime target and those who are listened.

The rest of players are naive cattle only to pay sub to CCP and serve as victims for the "true players".

Oh and PS.
I'm a arrogant masochists who things/deludes himself he can outsmart the gankers.
Smodab Ongalot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-01-04 19:05:15 UTC
CeneUJiti wrote:
Because EVE had drawn in a completely unproportional number of sociopaths and sadists. All those kids who could only find joy in breaking/stealing other kids toys and smashing their sand castles. All of them who actually play MMOs end up with EVE.

Though, while loud on forums and dictating the style of play for everyone in game; they are actually a small minority. Most of EVE players do just nothing but carebearing in Empire. But CCP doesn't care about carebears; and never will. PVPers who are in it for the tears are the prime target and those who are listened.

The rest of players are naive cattle only to pay sub to CCP and serve as victims for the "true players".

Oh and PS.
I'm a arrogant masochists who things/deludes himself he can outsmart the gankers.




Hmmmm.... someone needs to reread Byron D's post....


olan2005
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2012-01-04 20:10:35 UTC
Because eve allows for total freedom unlike wow . Even in high sec you are not safe from attack allowing for a more real life experience MMO . This to me with the whole sandbox architecture of eve online makes it the best and unique MMO in existence right now. The fact is u are never safe except when docked in station this is Eve most defining feature along with the cut throat mechanics of the game(I.E backstabbing , scamming , spying)

This is the reason i play eve and will continue to do so
Rakk Andedare
The Iron Asylum
#51 - 2012-01-04 20:42:55 UTC
olan2005 wrote:
Because eve allows for total freedom unlike wow . Even in high sec you are not safe from attack allowing for a more real life experience MMO . This to me with the whole sandbox architecture of eve online makes it the best and unique MMO in existence right now. The fact is u are never safe except when docked in station this is Eve most defining feature along with the cut throat mechanics of the game(I.E backstabbing , scamming , spying)

This is the reason i play eve and will continue to do so

^^ What he said Big smile
Byron D
No Duck's Allowed
#52 - 2012-01-04 20:46:20 UTC
Tauranon wrote:


its kind of necessary this gets done imo. At least the trade off between yield / tank, and alertness / ignoring/botting means something when the tanks are being tested by ganking. Its meaningless without players attacking hulks, because the game just does not exercise exhumers at all in highsec in any other sense than yield.

Did anyone field an exhumer that survived your 2 destroyers, or was it 29 attempts, 29 kills ?



There are a few that survive, some due to fitting all tank, including rigs, others due to us beeing too intoxicated and forgetting to load ammo, shoot the right target, etc. but generally speaking the success ratio is prolly around 90 %.

And even the ones that survive, if they are afkers or bots and we already put them in to armor, we do a round 2 and usually manage to produce an explosion.
Smodab Ongalot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2012-01-04 20:49:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Smodab Ongalot
Byron D wrote:


There are a few that survive, some due to fitting all tank, including rigs, others due to us beeing too intoxicated and forgetting to load ammo, shoot the right target, etc. but generally speaking the success ratio is prolly around 90 %.

And even the ones that survive, if they are afkers or bots and we already put them in to armor, we do a round 2 and usually manage to produce an explosion.



Shhhh! If you tell people the secret to avoid ganking is to engage ones brain and adapt, we won't have any targets!!

Blink


Kidding aside, I would venture a guess that 90% of the people we attempt to shoot are AFK or bots, that just about corresponds to the kill ratio.
Byron D
No Duck's Allowed
#54 - 2012-01-04 21:45:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Byron D
CeneUJiti wrote:
Because EVE had drawn in a completely unproportional number of sociopaths and sadists. All those kids who could only find joy in breaking/stealing other kids toys and smashing their sand castles. All of them who actually play MMOs end up with EVE.

Though, while loud on forums and dictating the style of play for everyone in game; they are actually a small minority. Most of EVE players do just nothing but carebearing in Empire. But CCP doesn't care about carebears; and never will. PVPers who are in it for the tears are the prime target and those who are listened.

The rest of players are naive cattle only to pay sub to CCP and serve as victims for the "true players".

Oh and PS.
I'm a arrogant masochists who things/deludes himself he can outsmart the gankers.



Since you approach multiple issues, let's go trough them point by point.

- Statement : Eve has drawn in a large number of sociopaths .

Sociopathy usually puts one in an antithetic relationship with accepted behavioural norms and standards of the society he is a part of. You, dear sir are heading the same faulty path as the OP. The accepted norms and laws of Eve are the EULA and the game mechanics, not the set of rules and laws that govern your real life. You can't be a sociopath in Eve for killing someone when the generally accepted (you did accept the EULA when you first logged in, didn't you ?) set of rules allows you to.

- Statement : they are actually a small minority but are treated like a majority by CCP

To start with, you contradict your previous statement about the "completely unproportional number of sociopaths and sadists" . Are they many or are they few ? But we shall proceed past that small inconsistency because their quantity is actually irrelevant. You are prolly correct, most eve players never willingly engage in pvp and they rather enjoy running missions or mining. However the last person stating that "quantity has a quality all its own" is a certain mister J. Stalin.
In fact it is quite the contrary. The small minority you are talking about is actually creating the vast majority of the content in eve. Proof one beeing that you are here participating in a post about how many exhumers we ganked, rather than participating in a post about how many space rocks you mined last week.
Another proof is actually harder to notice, but is even more compelling once you see the full picture. When incarna was deployed and monoclegate struck, only the minority you mentioned actually felt apropriate to quit. For all intents and purpouses, those 5 % or less quitting should have no impact on what goes on in eve. However, as autumn struck server numbers were taking a much bigger hit , to the point where you'd rarely see 25-30k ppl logged in simultaneously. And all for a simple reason. Those 5 % wwere the ones providing all the content and all the fun. Planning invasions, declaring wars, starting ganking campaigns, pirating, scamming, etc. Anything that would create strong emotions troughout the playerbase, be those emotions hate or admiration, loathing or respect, they brought something to eve that was suddenly missing. That is why CCP takes them in to account disproportionally, because without them, eve is a game that does not stir any emotions, you can't really hate NPCs, or if you can, you need professional help.

Ever wondered why there are bots for mining, for missioning, for ratting, but not for pirating, ganking or waging wars ? Because what your majority does, dear sir, is so easy, mechanical and repetitive to the point where it's replaceable by a poorly written code on a machine. Or to put it another way, the quantity of thought your majority puts in to eve would fit on a floppy disk. What the minority does, requires so much creativity and spontaneity that no machine can replace it.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#55 - 2012-01-05 04:15:51 UTC
scramblekid wrote:
Hello people of EVE

Now, this is not a tear laden post, more one born out of curiosity, and inspired by This Post

Why do people hold these gankers in such high regard? The way I look at it is that every character over 3 months old in eve likes the game, and in most cases spends quite a bit of time dedicated to it. So what joy can be gotten out of killing a miner hard at work, who helps provide the building blocks for the rest of the eve community.

1. Because mining, especially ice harvesting, is held in very low regard by the PvP community, and many others consider them all to be bots.

2. Because many ganks are avoidable.

3. Because it is the epitome of EVE (Everybody Vs. Everybody). Nowhere is safe. Anything goes, though there may be consequences (CONCORD). Laugh at your win or loss and move on.
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#56 - 2012-01-05 09:48:25 UTC
because, if you chose to stay in the game past that point where most get borred, then you will gank something shortly thereafter.

Ganking, you do it just for the sake of doing it, if a nice 2 bill isk blueprint drops out of a kill then its like winning the lottery.

Bragging rights, when you can get some one to curse at you, then your going to laugh in their face, then laugh some more after you tell your buddies, the entertainment factor can be pretty nice.

Ganking is easy, torpedo skills and tech 1 cruisers are win.
dethleffs
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#57 - 2012-01-05 10:25:02 UTC
Byron D wrote:
In other news, inb4 Smo posts a vid :

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12012501

5 bil in a 3hr session.



I really love how the solistice project is on that BR. Props guys!
Smodab Ongalot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2012-01-05 14:59:53 UTC
dethleffs wrote:

I really love how the solistice project is on that BR.



Collateral damage is one of the most fun parts of ganking. Sometimes people get cocky and think they can either come steal our loot or try to catch our pods or whore on our loss mails.

That solstice project guy was trying to catch our pods. I don't think he expected to get killed and podded himself! Lol

We've gotten a few other real winners:

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12002718
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=11958540

We've put more than one noctis into structure and some tengu that was whoring our mails was a bit surprised we shot him (even though we had no chance of denting his shields).


All in a days work
Plutonian
Intransigent
#59 - 2012-01-07 02:40:19 UTC
CeneUJiti wrote:
Because EVE had drawn in a completely unproportional number of sociopaths and sadists.

Ain't it cool? Big smile


Real men suicide gank in Yulai though.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#60 - 2012-01-09 07:26:05 UTC
scramblekid wrote:
... a miner hard at work, who helps provide the building blocks for the rest of the eve community.


This idea seems to be common among miners, and held exclusively by them. Its cool that people shoot rocks and players actually build stuff and sell the items other people use, however a miner doesn't provide me with anything, or provide any service or function that I need to appreciate. Miners may see themselves as the foundations of the economy, but most players see them as the bottom of the food chain. If the miners all quit tomorrow over suicide ganking, prices may rise for me, but they'll also rise for everyone else, and I'll hardly be worse off. I suppose I'm disrespecting miners here, but the idea that one miner in the belt is contributing to my gameplay experience outside of being a target is kind of ridiculous.

Ladie Harlot wrote:
The only people more deserving of being ganked than miners are roleplayers.

Also this, this a hundred times.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.