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Inertia and Afterburners/Micro WarpDrives

Author
Angelo Cossa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2011-12-26 12:28:12 UTC
Hi, i don't know if it was asked before, but with a quick forum search i didin't found it..

I understand that in the vacuum of space we don't have attriction, so if i accelerate my ship to a X velocity, unless i want to change directions or velocity and Spend energy on it i will go "forever" with the same speed.

But in game if i disable my afterburner/Micro Warpdrive after getting into the desired speed i will go back to my "normal" velocity even if i don't change ships direction.

Why it is this way? Designers choice? dificult to implement a more real model? or i am wrong about the space velocity thing?
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-12-26 12:34:29 UTC
Eve spaceships are really submarines and the vacuum of space is actually water
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Jagga Spikes
Spikes Chop Shop
#3 - 2011-12-26 12:36:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Jagga Spikes
edit: nvm
TriadSte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-12-26 13:00:16 UTC
This is a game, not in anyway a simulation.


rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#5 - 2011-12-26 13:03:05 UTC
Pilot controls, its like how cars have schock absorbers on them. In physics the car crashes hard and break the axel but since that is annoying to happen you put shocks on it and the axel doesnt break anymore. Flying a ship and after accelerating it would be awkard to fly it or pilot if it stayed at that velocity through inertia and being in a vacuum. Just saying your scenario you are on a theme park ride where you dont control anything, how you want it to fly. But most pilots like to pilot and not ride on theme rides that is why it slows down after is acceleration, think of shock absorbers helping the ride be smoother.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

malaire
#6 - 2011-12-26 13:05:45 UTC
I don't remember exact details but it has something to do with FTL (faster than light) travel capable engines fitted into each ship in EVE. Those special engines create a dragging effect which effectively is constantly slowing down ships so that they need active propulsion to keep their speed. (Or something like that...)

Without these special engines you would go on forever at same speed but you could not use FTL (faster than light) travel.

New to EVE? Don't forget to read: The Manual * The Wiki * The Career Options * and everything else

Angelo Cossa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2011-12-26 13:11:17 UTC
malaire wrote:
I don't remember exact details but it has something to do with FTL (faster than light) travel capable engines fitted into each ship in EVE. Those special engines create a dragging effect which effectively is constantly slowing down ships so that they need active propulsion to keep their speed. (Or something like that...)

Without these special engines you would go on forever at same speed but you could not use FTL (faster than light) travel.


That's a good explanation... ...one thing i like about this game is that they have a good background, i don't even feel bad to be imortal like in other MMORGS :)
Nnamuachs
Kiith Paktu
Reeloaded.
#8 - 2011-12-26 14:19:18 UTC
Angelo Cossa wrote:
Hi, i don't know if it was asked before, but with a quick forum search i didin't found it..

I understand that in the vacuum of space we don't have attriction, so if i accelerate my ship to a X velocity, unless i want to change directions or velocity and Spend energy on it i will go "forever" with the same speed.

But in game if i disable my afterburner/Micro Warpdrive after getting into the desired speed i will go back to my "normal" velocity even if i don't change ships direction.

Why it is this way? Designers choice? dificult to implement a more real model? or i am wrong about the space velocity thing?



Particulates and matter still exist in the vacuum of space, you'll still have some friction from matter as well as gravity pull from nearby objects., even if it is negligible.

But yeah, mostly what malaire said. The FTL drives on EvE starships have a dragging effect on normal space, which causes the ships to behave as they do.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2011-12-26 14:25:00 UTC
The answer is simple...

EvE does not follow Newtonian Physics.

Ever noticed that we don't have "thrusters" around our ships to facilitate turning and reverse direction? Well...fighters do...sort of...they are graphically misplaced and completely flawed but they are there.

Supposedly EvE ships use something called "gravity drives" so we don't need thrusters...and yet the explanation for why we cannot actually crash into each other is that emergency "thrusters" fire when the ship detects proximity to another ship...

I dunno...**** it...

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#10 - 2011-12-26 14:46:39 UTC
I've always used the "your warp core anchors you to the very fabric of the universe".
It's like a ship on water, with an anchor you need a lot of force to move, but additional force to keep moving.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#11 - 2011-12-26 15:25:24 UTC
Eve vacuum is very dense.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#12 - 2011-12-26 15:30:27 UTC
I never bothered with the lore. I tell myself it's an effect of the propulsion system forming a "bubble" in space which then needs to be actively pushed to move. When that bubble hits something else it bounces off, thus the lack of dangerous collisions.

Also, game mechanics and stuff.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Barkaial Starfinder
Brazilian Vultures
Ferrata Victrix
#13 - 2011-12-26 15:47:25 UTC
My explanation is that the ship is restricted on top speed because of the G force applied on crew, if the ship would turn at extreme speeds.
With no restrictions, all people would die inside the ship, including the pod pilot. So they have internal inertia stabilizers that prevent much G force to be applied on crew, and also restricts top speed.

I think there should be a way to increase top speed temporarily, while decreasing the ship's agility.
Angelo Cossa
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-12-26 16:18:04 UTC
Barkaial Starfinder wrote:
My explanation is that the ship is restricted on top speed because of the G force applied on crew, if the ship would turn at extreme speeds.
With no restrictions, all people would die inside the ship, including the pod pilot. So they have internal inertia stabilizers that prevent much G force to be applied on crew, and also restricts top speed.

I think there should be a way to increase top speed temporarily, while decreasing the ship's agility.


Top speed is limited anyway becouse you need more energy to get more speed even in vacuum, and energy is limited... in real world you would need infinite energy to get something with mass to the speed of light, of course in eve that problem is solved by advanced technology :)

The explanation malaire wrote only works too if you consider an global inertial reference, and that these FTL engines drag ships down towards this reference.
But that's fiction, i think the "explanations" are very good anymays, it always comes down to some obscure colateral efect of something...

But i put the question becouse unlike people that thinks that a more real model would be easier and boring... i think otherwise...

While if you want continue at the same speed and same velocity you would not need to do anything... i can only see a situation like this if you are fleeing. combat works around angular velocity, that means constant change of velocity.

In a more real model if you get to top speed by using a afterburner you would continue at that speed, but if you want to turn you would need to activate the afterburner again, if you do not have the capacitor to do it you would turn kilometers away from where you wanted... and that could means the death of the pilot...

You could have too keys associated with the velocity in the six diretcions (up,down, front,back,right,left) insted of only one.. so you could control your ship better.

And all of these can be done while keeping the "normal" control of the ship almost unaltered to people that don't want to control things manually (making the afterburner down you velocity before deactivates for example if you want it).
thekiller2002us
The J8sters
#15 - 2011-12-26 16:23:08 UTC
the asnwer is very very simple - fat pilots

I'm with Brick on this one- make thouse carebearing b******s squeal..

Samantha Utama
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2011-12-28 06:08:16 UTC
malaire wrote:
I don't remember exact details but it has something to do with FTL (faster than light) travel capable engines fitted into each ship in EVE. Those special engines create a dragging effect which effectively is constantly slowing down ships so that they need active propulsion to keep their speed. (Or something like that...)

Without these special engines you would go on forever at same speed but you could not use FTL (faster than light) travel.


I really like this explanation rather than 'space submarines'
Phizban
The Needs Of The Few
#17 - 2011-12-29 02:59:54 UTC
thekiller2002us wrote:
the asnwer is very very simple - fat pilots


Neckbeards Unite!
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#18 - 2011-12-29 05:12:37 UTC
typically this is explained away by scifi writers with inertial dampening fields

the idea being that if you follow the regular physics of space coupled with the need to get from point A to point B in a timespan less than a generation.

to stop a ship with retrograde thrust pisses away fuel and takes an extraordinary amount of time.
some people like to use braking maneuvers like in Clarke's 2010 or as the Apollo astronauts used in real life
still others go for inertial dampening. which allows a ship to accelerate and decelerate at speeds that would normally reduce the occupants of the ship to a fine paste

now you get the ability to get to velocity and then stop again without it taking half of the book/movie to do so
this also accounts for jet fighter maneuverability in space movies
Landrae
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2011-12-29 05:28:39 UTC
J3ssica Alba wrote:
Eve spaceships are really submarines and the vacuum of space is actually water


+1
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#20 - 2011-12-29 15:08:38 UTC
Apparently this is somewhere in the chronicles, but I've never found the original story that details it, but it is the reasoning:

When a ship is built, it is built around the warp drive 'core' installed inside it (hence why there is no 'warp drive' module you have to buy.

The drive is switched on, and can not be easily powered off

A powered up warp core creates a 'gravity anchro/drag' effect against the fabric of normal space when it is running idle, this is what 'drags' your ship back to a stop when you drives shut down.. the warp core dragging itself to a standstill, relative to space-time fabric.

This also explains why the ships manuever and turn the way they do.

Why the planets do not orbit the sun, however, is still a mystery which causes Caldari scientests to lose many hours of sleep.. Also the logistical problems of cramming so many people on a ball that is only a few hundred kilometers across

8^D
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