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Shall my skills train faster if I subscribe?
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Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2016-12-29 11:13:16 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Keno Skir wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Barring the use of Attribute Implants, Neural Remaps and Skill Training Accelerators, I could have sworn Alpha and Omega Clones trained skills at the same speed.

Now I don't know what to think.



DMC


Alphas train at 0.5 speed.

No Alphas train at 1x and Omegas train at 2x.

OP if you look just above your training Queue you will see a 1x multiplier all the way to the right and just above the progress bar. If you sub that number changes to 2x and all of your skills will train in half the time.


Not even a little bit, you need to check your facts.

When Alpha expansion hit they created a new training rate which was / is 50% that of a standard subscribed character. Alpha clones received the NEW 50% SLOWER TRAINING SPEED. The existing subbed members retained exactly the same training speed they had before.

Since Alphas are new, and have been assigned a new half speed training rate created just for Alphas which is half that of a subbed player i put it to you that Alphas indeed train at HALF SPEED regardless what CCP have chosen to write above the skill queue to make Alphas feel better about subscribing.

I train at the same rate i always have, an Alpha clone trains half the speed of me. Ergo, i train at normal speed and the new guys train at Half of that speed.

I hope that's clear enough Pirate

Whether Alphas train at half the speed of Omegas, or Omegas train at double the speed of Alphas. It's the same thing!

CCP choose to present this as the latter and it is no big deal, grand lie or anything, just a half full glass view of things. ergherhdfgh choosing to explain the situation as it is presented in game is quite reasonable and the NCQ&A forum is not the place to be having a hissy fit over semantics.
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2016-12-29 12:13:45 UTC
https://www.google.com/#q=fact+definition
Keno Skir wrote:


With respect, my perspective is quite simply correct.

If a car manufacturer make a car that does 50mph, then later they design and build a 2nd car that does 25mph, the first car is not suddenly twice as fast.

50 mph is twice as fast as 25 mph this is just factual. Yes it is also factually true that 25 mph is half as fast as 50 mph. Both of those statements are factually true. The car manufacturer saying that the 50 mph car is twice as fast is them stating a fact.
Keno Skir wrote:

Now the car manufacturer might advertise that the first car is somehow now the "executive model" that goes twice as fast by adding the context of the new slower car as evidence, but in terms of reality the old car goes at 1.0 speed compared to before the new slower car was made.

Saying Car 1 now does 2.0 speed and car 2 does 1.0 speed does not mean car 1 drives at "double speed", the company are just choosing to pretend the context lays with the new car when in fact it lays with the existing control subject (the original car). This is in complete opposition to normal logical pr

Training speed in this game is an arbitrary number that CCP made up within the context of their own game. It's not temperature or voltage or some other existing, agreed upon quantification. CCP can choose to express that number however they like. You may not like it but that does not change the fact that CCP has the ability to put numbers on the UI and neither you nor I have the ability to make those changes. We can only play within the sandbox that CCP creates. We do not have the ability to adjust the structure of the sandbox.

So I chose to keep it simple and deal with the numbers available to new players. I chose to speak within the reference of what is currently available. You are choosing to confuse things by talking to new players in historical terms which does them no good.
Keno Skir wrote:

I see where you're coming from saying it's easier for new players to understand, because the whole concept is purely designed to make new players feel less powerless / restricted. But it is none the less incorrect by the rules of logic, which are not open to interpretation thank god.

It's a small thing that isn't really worth this back and forth tbh, but it's a niggle a lot of us felt when the little white lies started popping up in the Alpha campaign :)

Apparently the rules of logic are open to interpretation because right here you are calling my factual statement "incorrect" and by implication calling your opinion logically and factually true.

While this may be a "glass half full" and "glass half empty" argument in which both of those statements are true and neither is incorrect and it is all up to interpretation. However what is not up for interpretation nor opinion is the manner in which CCP chose to express those numbers visually in game.

Alphas train at 1x speed as stated by the in game UI and Omegas train at 2x speed. You can choose to view alphas as training at half the speed that Omegas do, if that makes things easier for you but unless you can convince CCP to change the in game UI to express it that way, you are only confusing things for new players and making things more complicated for them then they need to be.

I respect your opinion and your viewpoint and your right to both of them. I however draw a line when you start calling your opinion fact. Glass half full or half empty the in game UI still says 1x and 2x. Any claim to the contrary is factually and provably false.

While I understand your knee-jerk reaction to the Orwellian double speak that we are all subject to in pop culture now-a-days and also the frustration with the propaganda / marketing takeover of our language and revisionist history that is endemic of todays pop-culture world. However here in the context of this game it is a product sold by CCP and we can choose or not choose to be consumers of it but we can not force them to run their for profit company in a manner in which we choose.

If you want to fight the "1984" style "Big Brother" take-over of our world I suggest you keep that fight in the public realm and in the context of things that are publicly agreed upon. In other words you are not going to have much luck convincing Ford or Chevy to start shipping all of it's US sold cars with kph as the prominent speed on the speedometer. You'd be much better off starting a public movement and getting petitions signed to change the road signs to kph. At that point Chevy and Ford would have to fall in line to meet the current "norm".

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli
Selene Dukat
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#23 - 2017-01-05 20:43:59 UTC
Keno Skir wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Your perspective is no more or less correct or valid than mine however I feel my way of expressing it is less confusing for new players. I concede that is only my opinion however the "1x" and "2x" that I posted about is information that is clearly displayed in game so I fail to understand where you get off telling me that I "need to check my facts" when my "facts" are clearly factual as can be checked by anyone who has the ability to log into the game on both an alpha and omega account.


With respect, my perspective is quite simply correct.

If a car manufacturer make a car that does 50mph, then later they design and build a 2nd car that does 25mph, the first car is not suddenly twice as fast. Now the car manufacturer might advertise that the first car is somehow now the "executive model" that goes twice as fast by adding the context of the new slower car as evidence, but in terms of reality the old car goes at 1.0 speed compared to before the new slower car was made.

Saying Car 1 now does 2.0 speed and car 2 does 1.0 speed does not mean car 1 drives at "double speed", the company are just choosing to pretend the context lays with the new car when in fact it lays with the existing control subject (the original car). This is in complete opposition to normal logical pr

I see where you're coming from saying it's easier for new players to understand, because the whole concept is purely designed to make new players feel less powerless / restricted. But it is none the less incorrect by the rules of logic, which are not open to interpretation thank god.

It's a small thing that isn't really worth this back and forth tbh, but it's a niggle a lot of us felt when the little white lies started popping up in the Alpha campaign :)


Hey pop quiz - when you open your Omega training Queue, what does it say on the right hand side if the Training Queue Header bar?

Oh yeah. 2x. Not 1x.

I understand the butthurt point you are making - boo hoo we long term omegas didn't train faster after the introduction of alphas, so emo-rage at the fact that its called 2x.

But guess what, this is a new player Q&A forum. New players. Telling new players that its 0.5 for alphas and 1 for omega is unhelpful, inconsistent with the game mechanics, not an accurate reflection of anything they will see in game. If you are an alpha you train at x speed. If you are an omega you train at x*2 speed. That's what's helpful when answering a question for NEW PLAYERS.

Now go back to yelling at kids to get of your eve lawn, like I do. Or, yell at some clouds for a while - that always helps me.

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