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'Gnome' Shield upgrades is a pointless implant?
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Linkette
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-12-24 23:26:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Linkette
'Gnome' Shield upgrades su-605 - 5% reduction in powergrid needs of modules requiring shield upgrades skill.

What is the point of this implant? It's slot 6, the same slot as 'Squire' power grid management EG-605 - 5% bonus to powergrid. The powergrid output implant makes it pointless.

Maybe if the bonus was doubled on the 'gnome' shield upgrade implants it could find a niche where it's better than the powergrid output implant?
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2016-12-24 23:31:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
What is the point of this implant?

It gives 5% reduction in PG need of modules requiring shield upgrade skills.


Yes, other implants are better.

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Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-12-24 23:35:33 UTC
I guess if this one is cheaper that regular "+5% to PG" then it would have some cases to be the proper choice....

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Linkette
Doomheim
#4 - 2016-12-24 23:36:12 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
What is the point of this implant?

It gives 5% reduction in PG need of modules requiring shield upgrade skills.


Yes, other implants are better.


The same slot powergrid output bonus implant makes the shield upgrades implant redundant. I'm saying if the bonus was doubled, from say, 5% to 10% reduction in shield power upgrade needs, this could help. Though it'll still probably be virtually unused.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#5 - 2016-12-24 23:41:55 UTC
Quote:
Maybe if the bonus was doubled on the 'gnome' shield upgrade implants it could find a niche where it's better than the powergrid output implant?



Maybe if you had posted this idea (or possibly suggestion) for a feature in the Features and Ideas subforum it might've boosted your forum rep by 10%, rather than the measly 5% we're seeing now.

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Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2016-12-24 23:43:51 UTC
The benefit to the gnome vs the squire is in price.

if you are flying out in null or WH space, where there are better than even odds that you will be loosing your pod as well.
If you have a fit that needs just that little bit more PG, would you rather spend 24m on something you will probably be loosing. or 115m?
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2016-12-25 10:20:50 UTC
'Gnome' Shield upgrades su-605 is not a pointless Implant if you mainly do shield tanks.



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Demolishar
United Aggression
#8 - 2016-12-25 13:11:36 UTC
Yes, it is pointless, you are correct.
It should be a slot 10 implant IMO.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#9 - 2016-12-25 16:45:32 UTC
The SU-605 implant sells for 24 million ISK. The EG-605 sells for 115 million. If you just need a bit more power to fit a shield extender why would you pay an extra 90 million for the EG-605?
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2016-12-25 17:02:04 UTC
By OP's logic, the +1-+4 attribute implants are also pointless. because why use a +4 when a +5 exists...
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#11 - 2016-12-25 21:07:20 UTC
Do Little wrote:
The SU-605 implant sells for 24 million ISK. The EG-605 sells for 115 million. If you just need a bit more power to fit a shield extender why would you pay an extra 90 million for the EG-605?

the su-603 is 300k in jita, and there are some fits that work with it equipped, and it is cheaper than buying a EG-6 implant.

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Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2016-12-25 22:36:40 UTC
5% of a module's PG is usually less than the total PG of the ship. The squire yields more raw PG. I use Squires.

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Linkette
Doomheim
#13 - 2016-12-25 22:45:41 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
By OP's logic, the +1-+4 attribute implants are also pointless. because why use a +4 when a +5 exists...


Except for those implants are part of the same tiered set.

The implants I mentioned are supposed to be of equal rank.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2016-12-26 02:08:58 UTC
Linkette wrote:
[quote=Bjorn Tyrson]The implants I mentioned are supposed to be of equal rank.

Says who?
Suicide Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-12-26 07:01:08 UTC
Linkette wrote:
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
By OP's logic, the +1-+4 attribute implants are also pointless. because why use a +4 when a +5 exists...


Except for those implants are part of the same tiered set.

The implants I mentioned are supposed to be of equal rank.

They are 5% Implants. That has nothing to do with price, or how useful it is over all.

Anyone remember when we used to have ice mining rigs and such for small/large hull? Eve has lots of items that are if not useless, are very niche usecase. Just as there are skills that training over X level yields no benefit, hell there's at least one skill in Eve that is flat out useless and offers no benefits. Part of Eve is figuring it out for yourself.
Iain Cariaba
#16 - 2016-12-26 09:00:49 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
5% of a module's PG is usually less than the total PG of the ship. The squire yields more raw PG. I use Squires.

That's nice. Want a cookie for that?

That is also entirely your choice. Some people choose the cheaper option when the more expensive one is overkill.
Iain Cariaba
#17 - 2016-12-26 09:03:14 UTC
Suicide Smith wrote:
Linkette wrote:
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
By OP's logic, the +1-+4 attribute implants are also pointless. because why use a +4 when a +5 exists...


Except for those implants are part of the same tiered set.

The implants I mentioned are supposed to be of equal rank.

They are 5% Implants. That has nothing to do with price, or how useful it is over all.

Anyone remember when we used to have ice mining rigs and such for small/large hull? Eve has lots of items that are if not useless, are very niche usecase. Just as there are skills that training over X level yields no benefit, hell there's at least one skill in Eve that is flat out useless and offers no benefits. Part of Eve is figuring it out for yourself.

Capital scanning rigs.

/thread.
Kalido Raddi
Crown Mineworks
#18 - 2016-12-26 09:05:21 UTC
There are a large number of implants that are objectively useless. SU- is just one of them.

Various people will cite the nominal Jita cost, but those prices are rarely reliable because the implants in question are rarely if ever obtained from the source (LP stores at 250,000 LP + 250,000,000 ISK for the SU-603).

They obviously don't sell for anything like that price, so the few that ever appear are (I presume) either drops or mission rewards from somewhere.

In terms of their return on investment from LP & ISK, the SU-600 series just aren't worth it for mission runners to obtain.

If they did become worth using, the price would rapidly approach parity with the other, actually useful and heavily traded implant sets on an ISK/LP level.

I would say that CCP should either buff these implants substantially or move them to another implant slot where they would provide a valid trade off.

If (to take a thought experiment) CCP were to double the effectiveness of the SU-600 series in that slot, then the equation would be simple; any ship with over half its grid dedicated to shield modules would benefit more from the hypothetical 6th tier SU-612 than from an EG-606.

On the other hand moving it unchanged to another slot would put it in direct competition with different stat bonuses. However, putting two fitting implants in different slots would mean that the balance of available power grid would change, and certain fits that are currently just out of reach will become possible.
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2016-12-26 11:46:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Bjorn Tyrson
Just a thought since I havent run the numbers on it or anything, but what about for more unusual fits. like over sized shield shield extenders. if you where fitting a medium shield extender on a small ship for example, would it be possible that the 5% reduction from the larger grid cost of the medium rig could add up to a greater net reduction than the overall 5% from the gnome?

Edit: NVM was just a groggy half awake thought, and on giving it a couple more seconds consideration yeah it doesn't make any sense, since the overall PG of the ship is always going to be greater than the PG of anything you could possibly fit on it.
Still the difference in cost, especially if you are running a shield heavy fit could be the difference if all you need to do is squeeze a tiny bit extra out of it.
Kalido Raddi
Crown Mineworks
#20 - 2016-12-26 13:14:27 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Still the difference in cost, especially if you are running a shield heavy fit could be the difference if all you need to do is squeeze a tiny bit extra out of it.

They cost the same from LP Stores - LP and ISK cost.
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