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Its not fare punish PVE players with boredom. MORE FUN FOR PVE !

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#121 - 2017-02-07 05:40:30 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Yes, play however you want. But that does not change the nature of the game. If you will not shoot others, then you are going to be prey. That is just how it is going to be. Sooner or later somebody is going to come gunning for you, and you'll have to be ready for it.

To say, "It isn't a PvP game to me," okay...but for that guy that is going to shoot you it is and he doesn't care what you think the game is or is not. So be prepared to deal with that eventuality. Fit a tank, be aware, be ready to GTFO, etc.


You talk as though players are generally opposed to shooting other players - they're not. Most just don't go looking or spoiling for fights. I've had players show up in my missions, shoot my MTUs, steal objectives and generally make a nuisance of themselves -it's almost always a bait and switch. Occasionally they get blapped (by me or the NPCs) - most of the time they limp away lickong their wounds. If players weren't so apathetic they'd probably see more PvP action, but they always go for the low-hanging fruit.


No, please re-read what I wrote. If you don't want to engage in shooting other players that is fine with me. I could care less. But that does not change the nature of the game. I could call you a hippopotamus, but that would not make you a hippopotamus.

Look, the nature of this game is as follows:

1. Play how you want. Yay we agree.
2. Others will play how they want. Oh no, now you might have a problem.
3. 2 means that some might want to shoot you, and if they are prepared for the consequences they can and will shoot you. Now I'm fairly confident we are not in agreement.
4. Because of 1, 2 and 3 coming here to the forums all butthurt and whining means you'll get mocked unmercifully. Nope we are no longer in agreement.

So again, if you want to mine, build, and so forth. Great. Have at it. But you will be in competition with other players, and for me that means you will be engaged in PvP. And the nature of the game is such that sooner or later somebody is going to train their guns on you, so be ready for that. If you aren't, well sorry, but IMO that is on you.

I don't find whining and complaining on the forums about this helpful at all. In fact, I think it is counter productive in that CCP seems to think catering to the whiny pissant scrubs might be good for the game, but so far the evidence seems to point in exactly the opposite direction.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#122 - 2017-02-07 05:55:44 UTC
1. Yes.
2. Doesn't bother me one way or the other.
3. Don't really care (probably not the first or last time this will happen).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#123 - 2017-02-07 07:58:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Teckos Pech wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
(...)
That means you have the opportunity to do anything you want.



...as long as it's PvP. Roll


Jesus what is it with people and this anti-PvP thing? Maybe I was wrong, maybe this new generation of players is made of primarily of wimps and cry babies. If you sell stuff on the market you are competing with other players. If you show up in a belt with another miner there you are competing for those resources. If you haul stuff around New Eden to take advantage of arbitrage opportunities you are in competition with other players. There are lots of things you can do in game that do not entail shooting other players, but puts you in competition with them. And in some instances you might team up and cooperate to be more competitive against other players.

Holy crap people. Put on your big boy pants and just get out there and compete. There is no participation trophy in life nor in this game.


First, you don't know what definition of PvP I was using. The last thing I did before winning EVE was to mine ice in highsec against uberfleets, their wardeccing buddies and CODE. So you bet I know what competition means.

Second, on the bolded part... that's why effin' people play effin' games.

Maybe you've got it wrong if you think that enjoying a game should be as hard-earned as real life.

(Notice I said "enjoy" not "win").
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#124 - 2017-02-07 08:14:09 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
1. Yes.
2. Doesn't bother me one way or the other.
3. Don't really care (probably not the first or last time this will happen).


So why when you show up on the forums it is like somebody dumped a canister of Morton Salt?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#125 - 2017-02-07 08:19:45 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
(...)
That means you have the opportunity to do anything you want.



...as long as it's PvP. Roll


Jesus what is it with people and this anti-PvP thing? Maybe I was wrong, maybe this new generation of players is made of primarily of wimps and cry babies. If you sell stuff on the market you are competing with other players. If you show up in a belt with another miner there you are competing for those resources. If you haul stuff around New Eden to take advantage of arbitrage opportunities you are in competition with other players. There are lots of things you can do in game that do not entail shooting other players, but puts you in competition with them. And in some instances you might team up and cooperate to be more competitive against other players.

Holy crap people. Put on your big boy pants and just get out there and compete. There is no participation trophy in life nor in this game.


First, you don't know what definition of PvP I was using. The last thing I did before winning EVE was to mine ice in highsec against uberfleets, their wardeccing buddies and CODE. So you bet I know what competition means.

Second, on the bolded part... that's why effin' people play effin' games.

Maybe you've got it wrong if you think that enjoying a game should be as hard-earned as real life.

(Notice I said "enjoy" not "win").


I have mined ICE on an alt, and it is extremely competitive. I would call it PvP. I don't care what you call it, but when you have poeple using alts and all sorts of other tactics to mine the ice as fast as possible it is PvP.

As for a participation trophy, look if you feel you "won EVE" then just **** off, no literally **** off. Nobody will miss you and your view of the game. You don't seem to realize that the core of EVE is player competing against players. Whether you mine ice, minerals, or build stuff it is is all players competing against each other. I don't care if you want to shoot other players or not, but I do care if you think the game should be some sort of theme park where you are immune from other players interacting with you. If that is what you want, go play on the test server. Go mine ice there, nobody will care and nobody will bother you.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Salvos Rhoska
#126 - 2017-02-07 11:11:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Teckos Pech wrote:

I have mined ICE on an alt, and it is extremely competitive. I would call it PvP. I don't care what you call it, but when you have poeple using alts and all sorts of other tactics to mine the ice as fast as possible it is PvP.


This is correct.
Mining is technically PvP, as it is competition/conflict/interaction with other players for a finite spawn.
The activity of mining itself is PvE, but the context is PvP.

Ive also mined ICE, and it is indeed competitive, in many ways..

Furthermore you can make it even more competitive by applying psychological tricks and intimidation on competitors, stealing from the cans of idiots that drop them at the field, increasing time on site with an alt hauler or dropping a can at a nearby safespot, bumping, running flashies through the belt and targetting, hiring/informing gankers of targets, or taking them out yourself , co-operating with others for greater yields/efficiency, researching map for the most ICE fields in proximity to each other, keeping track of spawn timers, manipulating ICE prices in nearby dropoff points or cresting your own etc etc.

The possibilities are endless and limited only by your imagination and creativity.

Fun is what you make it to be. EVE, as a sandbox, is designed with that in mind.
The game itself doesnt do much to offer "fun", it just provides the environment in which you can pursue what you find to be fun.

I find it fun to pick my nose and eat my boogers. Done it since I was a little kid..
Its a habit most other people would think absolutely disgusting if they saw me doing it.
But its up to me what I find fun. Granted, fortunately, nobody is competing with me for my prized nose gold.

Same applies to EVE.
You have to decide what is fun for you, and make it happen, yourself.
EVE wont do it for you.
Just like my nose aint gonna pick itself.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#127 - 2017-02-07 11:52:23 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
So why when you show up on the forums it is like somebody dumped a canister of Morton Salt?

You're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#128 - 2017-02-07 13:22:48 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:



Yes, play however you want. But that does not change the nature of the game.


You could have stopped typing right there Big smile

This discussion is proof that some human beings are fine with their own freedoms but bristle at the idea of anyone else being free to do as they please. The bottom line problem in all of these 'discussions' is that some people think they have a right to be left alone when they do not.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#129 - 2017-02-07 15:04:42 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
(...)
That means you have the opportunity to do anything you want.



...as long as it's PvP. Roll


Jesus what is it with people and this anti-PvP thing? Maybe I was wrong, maybe this new generation of players is made of primarily of wimps and cry babies. If you sell stuff on the market you are competing with other players. If you show up in a belt with another miner there you are competing for those resources. If you haul stuff around New Eden to take advantage of arbitrage opportunities you are in competition with other players. There are lots of things you can do in game that do not entail shooting other players, but puts you in competition with them. And in some instances you might team up and cooperate to be more competitive against other players.

Holy crap people. Put on your big boy pants and just get out there and compete. There is no participation trophy in life nor in this game.


First, you don't know what definition of PvP I was using. The last thing I did before winning EVE was to mine ice in highsec against uberfleets, their wardeccing buddies and CODE. So you bet I know what competition means.

Second, on the bolded part... that's why effin' people play effin' games.

Maybe you've got it wrong if you think that enjoying a game should be as hard-earned as real life.

(Notice I said "enjoy" not "win").


I have mined ICE on an alt, and it is extremely competitive. I would call it PvP. I don't care what you call it, but when you have poeple using alts and all sorts of other tactics to mine the ice as fast as possible it is PvP.

As for a participation trophy, look if you feel you "won EVE" then just **** off, no literally **** off. Nobody will miss you and your view of the game. You don't seem to realize that the core of EVE is player competing against players. Whether you mine ice, minerals, or build stuff it is is all players competing against each other. I don't care if you want to shoot other players or not, but I do care if you think the game should be some sort of theme park where you are immune from other players interacting with you. If that is what you want, go play on the test server. Go mine ice there, nobody will care and nobody will bother you.


I was saying PvP as in "destroying player owned assets", which certainly is what Citadels, ECs and the other sh*t being developed by CCP since Rubicon are about. "PvP by means of PvE" is one of my mantras on what-should-CCP-do to save the game.

I thought it was clear enough that I understand the compeittive nature of the game and don't have any problem with it... but I have very serious issues with shooting player stuff as the alpha and omega of everything worthy. Roll
Salvos Rhoska
#130 - 2017-02-07 15:16:22 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Snip


I still dont understand what, specifically, exactly, it is you want to happen.

I already ran through and rebutted your previous points, most of which where non-specific.

You aren't giving us much to work on here.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#131 - 2017-02-07 15:56:51 UTC
Can we just get PVE activities, even in the PVP frame of the game, to not be a self nerf when you do them with other players? Player interaction was noted by CCP to be good for retention and people who do stuff together are likely to enjoy their time more than solo. Just unfuck that and see where it lead god dammit. No need to re-invent ratting, mining, missions and complexes of all kinds. Just make it so people don't feel like they are more productive while isolating themselves from others. They did it for incursion, no way they can pretend it's impossible to do it for the rest of the damn game.

No need for a new AI, new missions or new mechanics. This would all become stale after a few time anyway. Your game is supposed to be about doing stuff with other people from the sandbox, be it working with them or against them directly and indirectly.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#132 - 2017-02-07 16:25:09 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Can we just get PVE activities, even in the PVP frame of the game, to not be a self nerf when you do them with other players? Player interaction was noted by CCP to be good for retention and people who do stuff together are likely to enjoy their time more than solo. Just unfuck that and see where it lead god dammit. No need to re-invent ratting, mining, missions and complexes of all kinds. Just make it so people don't feel like they are more productive while isolating themselves from others. They did it for incursion, no way they can pretend it's impossible to do it for the rest of the damn game.

No need for a new AI, new missions or new mechanics. This would all become stale after a few time anyway. Your game is supposed to be about doing stuff with other people from the sandbox, be it working with them or against them directly and indirectly.


This is why group mining is so cool. Mining is HORRIBLE, but if you are in a group shooting the breeze and occasionally dealing with pvp threats (my corp LOVED to use mining ships to kill the poor idiots who warp in on us) it's seriously fun AND bonds us to each other and thus the game. Incursions do the same thing, ie they are boring as hell except for the odd situation where someone dind't broadcast in time or someone comes in to try to screw with you, but the SOCIAL interaction in comms makes up for a lot.

Missions, Complexes and Anomalies could be like that if it weren't for the bounty/loot/lp rewards system that punishes you for sharing.
The Bigpuns
United Standings Improvement Agency
#133 - 2017-02-07 16:44:53 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


So why when you show up on the forums it is like somebody dumped a canister of Morton Salt?


Whats Morton Salt?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#134 - 2017-02-07 18:33:39 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:


I was saying PvP as in "destroying player owned assets", which certainly is what Citadels, ECs and the other sh*t being developed by CCP since Rubicon are about. "PvP by means of PvE" is one of my mantras on what-should-CCP-do to save the game.

I thought it was clear enough that I understand the compeittive nature of the game and don't have any problem with it... but I have very serious issues with shooting player stuff as the alpha and omega of everything worthy. Roll


It isn't the alpha and the omega. Economic warfare is not unheard of though. Attacking an enemies source of ISK is a valid tactic. The point is this is a sandbox game and doing whatever you want, including shooting other players and their stuff, is totally valid.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#135 - 2017-02-07 18:36:13 UTC
The Bigpuns wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:


So why when you show up on the forums it is like somebody dumped a canister of Morton Salt?


Whats Morton Salt?


A manufacturer of salt,

http://www.mortonsalt.com/

Comes in a rather largish round cannister.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#136 - 2017-02-07 18:46:59 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Can we just get PVE activities, even in the PVP frame of the game, to not be a self nerf when you do them with other players? Player interaction was noted by CCP to be good for retention and people who do stuff together are likely to enjoy their time more than solo. Just unfuck that and see where it lead god dammit. No need to re-invent ratting, mining, missions and complexes of all kinds. Just make it so people don't feel like they are more productive while isolating themselves from others. They did it for incursion, no way they can pretend it's impossible to do it for the rest of the damn game.

No need for a new AI, new missions or new mechanics. This would all become stale after a few time anyway. Your game is supposed to be about doing stuff with other people from the sandbox, be it working with them or against them directly and indirectly.


This is why group mining is so cool. Mining is HORRIBLE, but if you are in a group shooting the breeze and occasionally dealing with pvp threats (my corp LOVED to use mining ships to kill the poor idiots who warp in on us) it's seriously fun AND bonds us to each other and thus the game. Incursions do the same thing, ie they are boring as hell except for the odd situation where someone dind't broadcast in time or someone comes in to try to screw with you, but the SOCIAL interaction in comms makes up for a lot.

Missions, Complexes and Anomalies could be like that if it weren't for the bounty/loot/lp rewards system that punishes you for sharing.




Make those work like incursion and work the balance of number so it's not broken. Max number of fleet mate per site before the payout drops could be implemented like they are in incursion. Complexes have the problem of loot but then again, so do moms on incursion so it could work. Mission could work too. Then, you get to play with people instead of beside around people.

And remove the BS afk play. It's just plain stupid anyway.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#137 - 2017-02-07 18:59:20 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Can we just get PVE activities, even in the PVP frame of the game, to not be a self nerf when you do them with other players? Player interaction was noted by CCP to be good for retention and people who do stuff together are likely to enjoy their time more than solo. Just unfuck that and see where it lead god dammit. No need to re-invent ratting, mining, missions and complexes of all kinds. Just make it so people don't feel like they are more productive while isolating themselves from others. They did it for incursion, no way they can pretend it's impossible to do it for the rest of the damn game.

No need for a new AI, new missions or new mechanics. This would all become stale after a few time anyway. Your game is supposed to be about doing stuff with other people from the sandbox, be it working with them or against them directly and indirectly.


This is why group mining is so cool. Mining is HORRIBLE, but if you are in a group shooting the breeze and occasionally dealing with pvp threats (my corp LOVED to use mining ships to kill the poor idiots who warp in on us) it's seriously fun AND bonds us to each other and thus the game. Incursions do the same thing, ie they are boring as hell except for the odd situation where someone dind't broadcast in time or someone comes in to try to screw with you, but the SOCIAL interaction in comms makes up for a lot.

Missions, Complexes and Anomalies could be like that if it weren't for the bounty/loot/lp rewards system that punishes you for sharing.




Actually, I've never understood the reticence to doing things together like missions or ratting. Yeah, your isk/mission or whatever goes down, but you also do things more quickly. And my understanding is that the big money in missions is actually the LP, so faster missions means faster acquisition of LP. In the end it might balance out, but there is the possibility of economies of scale here.

As for ratting in NS, there is safety in numbers. Sure you might not make as much ISK but you'll be less vulnerable to being killed for two reasons. A guy in a cloaking ship will have a harder time killing 2 ratters (yes, yes, unless he has a cyno but then he is not "just a guy in a cloaking ship" then is he?) and with two people preferably on comms you'll have two eyes watching local, thus less of a chance for attention to lapse and that hostile can slip in undetected. And this would scale as well, more people more safety/eyes on local. And also, getting escalations would scale as well. If 3 guys in sanctums and havens kill said sanctums and havens 3x faster then your chances of getting an escalation in a given period of time spent ratting will also increase.

Suppose the chance of an escalation is x, your chances of not getting an escalation is thus 1-x. Your chances of not getting an escalation after 2 anomalies is (1-x)^2, and for 3 is (1-x)^3, and for 'n' it is (1-x)^n. The probability of not getting an escalation is thus decreasing the more anomalies your burn down. Thus the probability of getting an escalation is increasing the more anomalies you burn down. So if you are going to rat for 2 hours with a couple of buddies, you increase your chances of getting an escalation by working together, IMO.

So the benefits are there to be had, IMO.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#138 - 2017-02-07 19:14:13 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Can we just get PVE activities, even in the PVP frame of the game, to not be a self nerf when you do them with other players? Player interaction was noted by CCP to be good for retention and people who do stuff together are likely to enjoy their time more than solo. Just unfuck that and see where it lead god dammit. No need to re-invent ratting, mining, missions and complexes of all kinds. Just make it so people don't feel like they are more productive while isolating themselves from others. They did it for incursion, no way they can pretend it's impossible to do it for the rest of the damn game.

No need for a new AI, new missions or new mechanics. This would all become stale after a few time anyway. Your game is supposed to be about doing stuff with other people from the sandbox, be it working with them or against them directly and indirectly.


This is why group mining is so cool. Mining is HORRIBLE, but if you are in a group shooting the breeze and occasionally dealing with pvp threats (my corp LOVED to use mining ships to kill the poor idiots who warp in on us) it's seriously fun AND bonds us to each other and thus the game. Incursions do the same thing, ie they are boring as hell except for the odd situation where someone dind't broadcast in time or someone comes in to try to screw with you, but the SOCIAL interaction in comms makes up for a lot.

Missions, Complexes and Anomalies could be like that if it weren't for the bounty/loot/lp rewards system that punishes you for sharing.




Actually, I've never understood the reticence to doing things together like missions or ratting. Yeah, your isk/mission or whatever goes down, but you also do things more quickly. And my understanding is that the big money in missions is actually the LP, so faster missions means faster acquisition of LP. In the end it might balance out, but there is the possibility of economies of scale here.

As for ratting in NS, there is safety in numbers. Sure you might not make as much ISK but you'll be less vulnerable to being killed for two reasons. A guy in a cloaking ship will have a harder time killing 2 ratters (yes, yes, unless he has a cyno but then he is not "just a guy in a cloaking ship" then is he?) and with two people preferably on comms you'll have two eyes watching local, thus less of a chance for attention to lapse and that hostile can slip in undetected. And this would scale as well, more people more safety/eyes on local. And also, getting escalations would scale as well. If 3 guys in sanctums and havens kill said sanctums and havens 3x faster then your chances of getting an escalation in a given period of time spent ratting will also increase.

Suppose the chance of an escalation is x, your chances of not getting an escalation is thus 1-x. Your chances of not getting an escalation after 2 anomalies is (1-x)^2, and for 3 is (1-x)^3, and for 'n' it is (1-x)^n. The probability of not getting an escalation is thus decreasing the more anomalies your burn down. Thus the probability of getting an escalation is increasing the more anomalies you burn down. So if you are going to rat for 2 hours with a couple of buddies, you increase your chances of getting an escalation by working together, IMO.

So the benefits are there to be had, IMO.


The problem is the wasted time warping goes up too much because the sites are not really long to complete, especially if you put more than one player in it. People have done the tests and even with your won alt, it's more profitable to grind 2 anomaly at the same time than 2 in succession. The issue is 2 ship does not double your clearing speed and also mean both ship end up spending more time in warp over the same time period.

This is also not helped by the fact most anomaly can be done pretty much AFK so parallel grinding is not that wasteful of time as if you were active ratting on 2 account where you easily get overrun by cycles to deal with.

Currently, nobody seem to see the benefit as worth the cost.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#139 - 2017-02-07 19:15:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Teckos Pech wrote:


Actually, I've never understood the reticence to doing things together like missions or ratting. Yeah, your isk/mission or whatever goes down, but you also do things more quickly. And my understanding is that the big money in missions is actually the LP, so faster missions means faster acquisition of LP. In the end it might balance out, but there is the possibility of economies of scale here.


it doesn't quite work that way. having 2 people in a mission doesn't make the mission go twice as fast for a lot of reasons. And even with fleet warping it becomes a pain in the butt to move around. Missions aren't multi-pilot friendly and having a whole 'nother person along still lowers your income. I spent several years trying to figure out a way to make the experience work, but at the end of the day it's still just better to do them solo.

Even in a fleet, its better to have 2 guys blitzing missions than 2 guys in the same mission.

anomalies are worse because it's almost all bounties.

Quote:

As for ratting in NS, there is safety in numbers. Sure you might not make as much ISK but you'll be less vulnerable to being killed for two reasons. A guy in a cloaking ship will have a harder time killing 2 ratters (yes, yes, unless he has a cyno but then he is not "just a guy in a cloaking ship" then is he?) and with two people preferably on comms you'll have two eyes watching local, thus less of a chance for attention to lapse and that hostile can slip in undetected. And this would scale as well, more people more safety/eyes on local. And also, getting escalations would scale as well. If 3 guys in sanctums and havens kill said sanctums and havens 3x faster then your chances of getting an escalation in a given period of time spent ratting will also increase.


Doesn't work that way. Take the same 2 or 3 people put them in separate anoms while still in fleet together and sure maybe your escaltion chances per hour are lower, but your isk per hour is WAY higher. Remember that escalations are 'chances' at loot, you make more money soloing anoms and using escalations as bonus income than you do trying to farm escalations.

As for safety, I always rat in a fleet (especially when i use a Carrier of Pirate BS) and if someone lands on me I just ask for help. Even my VNIs that I sometimes use can last long enough against anything short of 3 blops to let help arrive. So there is no need to ahve people actually in the site with me, or even in the system. And the game punishes you for doing that anyways.

[Vexor Navy Issue]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer,Nanite Repair Paste

100MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Medium Cap Battery II
Warp Disruptor II
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I,Navy Cap Booster 800

Drone Link Augmentor II

Quote:

Suppose the chance of an escalation is x, your chances of not getting an escalation is thus 1-x. Your chances of not getting an escalation after 2 anomalies is (1-x)^2, and for 3 is (1-x)^3, and for 'n' it is (1-x)^n. The probability of not getting an escalation is thus decreasing the more anomalies your burn down. Thus the probability of getting an escalation is increasing the more anomalies you burn down. So if you are going to rat for 2 hours with a couple of buddies, you increase your chances of getting an escalation by working together, IMO.

So the benefits are there to be had, IMO.


Anomaly farming is what I mainly do, and running missions is still a close second. The current system actively punishes you for sharing content directly. The exception is Incursions, which has a site based reward scheme that REWARDS you for grouping together and completing sites faster. some version of that system needs to be exported to Missions and Anomalys, maybe even signature complexes.

Seriously, ask yourself, if 'professional' ratters and mission runners don't share, why wouldn't they if (as you say) the 'benefits are there to be had'. The answer of course is because we've already tried that (in my case, over the course of years) and it just doesn't work.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#140 - 2017-02-07 19:21:12 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:


The problem is the wasted time warping goes up too much because the sites are not really long to complete, especially if you put more than one player in it. People have done the tests and even with your won alt, it's more profitable to grind 2 anomaly at the same time than 2 in succession. The issue is 2 ship does not double your clearing speed and also mean both ship end up spending more time in warp over the same time period.

This is also not helped by the fact most anomaly can be done pretty much AFK so parallel grinding is not that wasteful of time as if you were active ratting on 2 account where you easily get overrun by cycles to deal with.

Currently, nobody seem to see the benefit as worth the cost.


Exactly so. I've tested it myself many times using a gun ship (usually a Machariel) and a Drone/FoF ship (Rattlesnake or Fleet Phoon). I've used many combos but that is my favorite.

If I put both in one anom, I make less than if I put both in separate anoms. AND it's safer because usually only one bad guy tackle ship comes in at a time. If both are in the same anom, a single ceptor with 2 scrams could hold both down, but he can't be in 2 places at once so at best I am risking one pirate BS max. It's why I tend to use 2 pirate BS rather than one carrier (that and I hate micromanaging fighters).

it's worse with missions because the real income in missions is blitzing LP. Using 2 ships or bringing a real life friend to blitz is a pain in the backside. With the exception of incursions, EVE PVE is not group/team friendly, changing that would go a long long way to making existing PVE more bearable. Like mining