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Buidling a C4 defense fleet for Rorqual mining
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Mandro
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-12-23 10:06:47 UTC
Hi all,

I'm a returning player and soon I'll join a wh corp or start one of my own. Now I would like to know if a certain scenario would work out in a C4.

I did some mining in the past and yes, I know it is boring. On the other side, I think it could also be a nice corp activity in a wormhole to collect some ores together while discussing other aspects of Eve. We can use this for building ships and other things for the corp.

Some ore belts can provide a few billion in ore. I think with enough people participating this idea in my new corp , we could harvest on avg at least 5B in ore a week.

My idea would be to use about 4 Rorquals and for members with less skills a few procurers. Together this should be able to harvest at least 1B an hour. Ofcourse this would make you a juice target, so I'm thinking about a defense fleet with 2x Dread, 1 or 2x Fax and a like 5 Battleships.

Now the question, in this set-up what would be the biggest external danger? The Rorquals can tank a shitload of DPS and can make a fleet invulnerable for a few mins. I would assume the defensefleet itself is hard to fight because of the Dread/Fax combi and the fact that hostiles can't warp in a similar set-up into a C4.

Now I'm curious to what you guys think about this idea. Would it work? Would you still attack it? What would you change or add? What type of dread would you use?

Really looking forward to your opinion guys.

Many thanks in advance!
CowQueen MMXII
#2 - 2016-12-23 11:32:40 UTC
The best defence is always hole control.

You consider building eight caps in a c4, why not move to c5? You are in risk of enemy caps, but bringing your own in is easier and bringing them out again is actually an option.

Moo! Uddersucker, moo!
Zand Vor
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#3 - 2016-12-23 12:13:46 UTC
Never not attack, we always have batfone available for targets larger than we can handle.

So regardless of your fleet comp, you are likely to get dropped anyways....eventually.

Seconded on hole control and good dscan/probe window discipline, that's how you stay alive.

Please fix wormhole combat sites: c1 20mil - c2 40 mil - c3 80 mil - c4 160 mil - c5 320 mil - c6 640 mil
Mandro
Doomheim
#4 - 2016-12-23 12:24:29 UTC
CowQueen MMXII wrote:
The best defence is always hole control.
You consider building eight caps in a c4, why not move to c5? You are in risk of enemy caps, but bringing your own in is easier and bringing them out again is actually an option.


Hole control works for existing sigs, but if someone is rage rolling, they've always the benefit of suprise. I've already jumped many times on unaware fleets with 20-60 secs after a new hole was opened. If there is like 3 combat sites left and you see 2 rattles, 3 cloaky scouts can do miracles :)

And about the choice for a C4, this is indeed because other caps would not be able to jump in.
Mandro
Doomheim
#5 - 2016-12-23 12:48:16 UTC
Zand Vor wrote:
Never not attack, we always have batfone available for targets larger than we can handle.
So regardless of your fleet comp, you are likely to get dropped anyways....eventually.
Seconded on hole control and good dscan/probe window discipline, that's how you stay alive.


I like the batfone :)

Now I can imagine a pretty nice fleet is required to take down this set-up, but to be honest I don't have this experience yet.

What kind of fleet would be able to kill 4 Rorquals, 2 dreads, 2 minokawa's and some battleships in a C4?

And also, I agree hole control would be best option, but I would like to be prepared for new opened sigs.
Jonn Duune
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#6 - 2016-12-23 13:37:41 UTC
Mandro wrote:
Zand Vor wrote:
Never not attack, we always have batfone available for targets larger than we can handle.
So regardless of your fleet comp, you are likely to get dropped anyways....eventually.
Seconded on hole control and good dscan/probe window discipline, that's how you stay alive.


I like the batfone :)


On a moments notice, i can batphone corps that can give me 20-30 ships ready to go in 5-10 minutes. The aggressor will ALWAYS be able to outbatphone you in WH space.

Mandro wrote:

Now I can imagine a pretty nice fleet is required to take down this set-up, but to be honest I don't have this experience yet.

What kind of fleet would be able to kill 4 Rorquals, 2 dreads, 2 minokawa's and some battleships in a C4?


Depends on your fittings. You don't give me faith that you're well versed in what you need to do, so here's my thoughts. 1 fleet consisting of 4 neuting legions, 1 bhaalgorn, 10 proteuses, 4 guardians and 4 nestors (my corp can field this in our primetime and we're about 80 characters strong). Should be able to do it, it will take a while, but it's doable.

Mandro wrote:

And also, I agree hole control would be best option, but I would like to be prepared for new opened sigs.


Simple, know the mass limits of your WH, if for example you have a c4 with a c4 and c3 static, your heaviest mass limit will be 2 bil.

So keep on standby the following:
1) Fast Scanner
2) 4 Rolling Battleships
3) 1 Rolling HIC

requires less pilots than your plan and is 10x safer, at least.

My name is Jonn Duune, and I wholeheartedly support the message posted above.
Tim Nering
R3d Fire
#7 - 2016-12-23 18:09:47 UTC
ou can actually fight a lot with procs and a rorqual. I fly with 7 procs and a rorqual, all the drones are assigned and the rorqual has a TP. ect ect

The truth is tho, the current meta of wormholes and caps is a joke. the 2017 meta for non eviction home defense is going to be just drop mass caps. with how carriers work now, you dont really need subs. I can count on one hand the corps that can kill a FAX with just subs, given you fit it right you are borderline invulnerable.

So just be really risk adverse critting c4 connections and mining if that sounds like fun to you.....

Stop Caring Start Fragging! Join R3D Fire Today!
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#8 - 2016-12-24 11:17:41 UTC
Tim Nering wrote:
ou can actually fight a lot with procs and a rorqual. I fly with 7 procs and a rorqual, all the drones are assigned and the rorqual has a TP. ect ect

The truth is tho, the current meta of wormholes and caps is a joke. the 2017 meta for non eviction home defense is going to be just drop mass caps. with how carriers work now, you dont really need subs. I can count on one hand the corps that can kill a FAX with just subs, given you fit it right you are borderline invulnerable.

So just be really risk adverse critting c4 connections and mining if that sounds like fun to you.....


Unless it has changed since I played getting on for a couple of years now - you would barely need one hand to count the number of corps in WHs that could regularly field enough pilots even with alts for a sizeable rorqual mining fleet + defensive fleet of 3-4 caps and a reasonable number of supporting sub-caps.

Dreads even with high angle guns seem to be less useful in this context than anything else - fighter carriers with webbing/tp support and force multipliers like neuts and ecm seem like a better way to go.