These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Skill time gates are killing us alphas
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Herbert G Wells
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2016-12-23 18:20:09 UTC
Helix Coils wrote:


If you are wishing to sway my opinion on any one of these topics you have failed miserably. Try again.


Why would I waste any more time on someone who so very clearly has no wish to listen to facts, and would rather spout nonsense instead?
Rei Y
Minmatar Citizen 90483936 Corporation
#82 - 2016-12-23 18:24:48 UTC
Helix Coils wrote:
I can accept that even maxed out an alpha can't compete with an omega toe to toe. I can accept that we are gimped with what ships we can fly, modules we can use, skills we can use etc.

However this 1/2 speed skill nerf is killing me as far as enjoyment goes. I'm really not willing to wait around 2 weeks to be halfway competent in any one skill tree. 6 months to be "maxed out" Just. No.


waiting 3 months instead to be "maxed out" would be OK for you?
and what are you going to do once you maxed out? come here and whine again about being "gimped with what ships we can fly, modules we can use, skills we can use etc."?

be a man, subscribe and stop whining.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#83 - 2016-12-23 18:29:58 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I honestly don't see how it harms me if alpha players train at the same base speed. If nothing less, they could do so for the first n days of the account. Say 10 or 20, enough to speed them through the very basic skills.

I would even go further. I don't like the current skillset you start with. You don't experience specific stages anymore where you get a feeling for how you progress while training skills.

Characters should start out with important skills injected but not trained beyond level 1. To counter that, training speed could increase over time up to whatever speed compared to Omegas is deemed acceptable for higher skill levels.

Remove standings and insurance.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#84 - 2016-12-23 18:30:52 UTC
mkint wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
mkint wrote:
So a question for the people who support the status quo... it's obvious why allowing alphas the full skill tree would be a bad thing for everyone. But what's wrong with allowing alphas the normal training speed?

(And don't say it's an incentive to sub, it's just as much an incentive to quit entirely, not give the game a real chance, and it's hypocritical to say they need to be patient when we're not willing to be patient ourselves in waiting for them to decide if they want to sub.)


Skill point farming.

Can't farm skillpoints on an alpha. Not in a meaningful way. That's what SP limits are for and alpha skills can't be extracted. No matter how you do it, you can ONLY extract SP you've paid for.

Any other ways training speed limits protect omegas, EVE, or CCP?


5 million trained for free skill points (AFTER which you can then sub with a plex, train cyber 5, add +5s and start a-farmin) x how many (infinite) alpha accounts you want to have (just because you can't log in more than one alpha at a time doesn't mean you can't TRAIN more than one at a time).

This is already being done btw with old toons people reclaimed, as it is now it takes 6 months for an alpha to hit that 5 mil mark speeding up alpha training times just gets those new skill point farms up and running twice as fast.

That's why SP limits exist for alphas, if you couldn't extract and sell SP there would be no real reason for the limit, thats why skill training time wasn't an issue when the only way to 'sell' skillpoints was to sell the whole character in the Char. Bazaar.


Helix Coils
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#85 - 2016-12-23 18:31:00 UTC
Herbert G Wells wrote:
Helix Coils wrote:


If you are wishing to sway my opinion on any one of these topics you have failed miserably. Try again.


Why would I waste any more time on someone who so very clearly has no wish to listen to facts, and would rather spout nonsense instead?


Care to share with us lower beings what you said was fact and where I was spouting nonsense?
Not that I would consider your argument since you have none to present.
Helix Coils
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#86 - 2016-12-23 18:34:26 UTC
Rei Y wrote:
Helix Coils wrote:
I can accept that even maxed out an alpha can't compete with an omega toe to toe. I can accept that we are gimped with what ships we can fly, modules we can use, skills we can use etc.

However this 1/2 speed skill nerf is killing me as far as enjoyment goes. I'm really not willing to wait around 2 weeks to be halfway competent in any one skill tree. 6 months to be "maxed out" Just. No.


waiting 3 months instead to be "maxed out" would be OK for you?
and what are you going to do once you maxed out? come here and whine again about being "gimped with what ships we can fly, modules we can use, skills we can use etc."?

be a man, subscribe and stop whining.


So in other words, just subscribe and there are no issues? I'm glad we had this talk.
Herbert G Wells
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2016-12-23 18:42:13 UTC
Helix Coils wrote:
Rei Y wrote:
Helix Coils wrote:
I can accept that even maxed out an alpha can't compete with an omega toe to toe. I can accept that we are gimped with what ships we can fly, modules we can use, skills we can use etc.

However this 1/2 speed skill nerf is killing me as far as enjoyment goes. I'm really not willing to wait around 2 weeks to be halfway competent in any one skill tree. 6 months to be "maxed out" Just. No.


waiting 3 months instead to be "maxed out" would be OK for you?
and what are you going to do once you maxed out? come here and whine again about being "gimped with what ships we can fly, modules we can use, skills we can use etc."?

be a man, subscribe and stop whining.


So in other words, just subscribe and there are no issues? I'm glad we had this talk.


Exactly that. What is it with you and not being willing to accept the obvious truth? CCP aren't going to change what they are doing with Alphas, because nothing needs changing.
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2016-12-23 18:45:05 UTC
What is a time gate?
Iain Cariaba
#89 - 2016-12-23 18:46:36 UTC
Helix Coils wrote:
Rei Y wrote:
Helix Coils wrote:
I can accept that even maxed out an alpha can't compete with an omega toe to toe. I can accept that we are gimped with what ships we can fly, modules we can use, skills we can use etc.

However this 1/2 speed skill nerf is killing me as far as enjoyment goes. I'm really not willing to wait around 2 weeks to be halfway competent in any one skill tree. 6 months to be "maxed out" Just. No.


waiting 3 months instead to be "maxed out" would be OK for you?
and what are you going to do once you maxed out? come here and whine again about being "gimped with what ships we can fly, modules we can use, skills we can use etc."?

be a man, subscribe and stop whining.


So in other words, just subscribe and there are no issues? I'm glad we had this talk.

If CCP gives into you now, what's going to happen next time you're unhappy with the game? You're going to come whining to the forums again. You'll keep doing it over and over and over and over (see the repeated nerfs to ganking over the years and the unending call for more nerfs) until CCP finally stops giving in. At this point you'll get all butthurt, and either deal with it or quit. It's much easier on everyone if we get your butthurt over with early.
Helix Coils
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#90 - 2016-12-23 18:57:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Helix Coils
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Helix Coils wrote:
Rei Y wrote:
Helix Coils wrote:
I can accept that even maxed out an alpha can't compete with an omega toe to toe. I can accept that we are gimped with what ships we can fly, modules we can use, skills we can use etc.

However this 1/2 speed skill nerf is killing me as far as enjoyment goes. I'm really not willing to wait around 2 weeks to be halfway competent in any one skill tree. 6 months to be "maxed out" Just. No.


waiting 3 months instead to be "maxed out" would be OK for you?
and what are you going to do once you maxed out? come here and whine again about being "gimped with what ships we can fly, modules we can use, skills we can use etc."?

be a man, subscribe and stop whining.


So in other words, just subscribe and there are no issues? I'm glad we had this talk.

If CCP gives into you now, what's going to happen next time you're unhappy with the game? You're going to come whining to the forums again. You'll keep doing it over and over and over and over (see the repeated nerfs to ganking over the years and the unending call for more nerfs) until CCP finally stops giving in. At this point you'll get all butthurt, and either deal with it or quit. It's much easier on everyone if we get your butthurt over with early.


All my posts other than quotes keep vanishing into the wind but I'm sure that mean's CCP is perfect right?
I never asked for a level playing field, far from it, all I ask is for an uneven playing field that isn't 6 ****ing months away. If that is too much to ask I am going to WALK along with alot of other people that have probably already left. Watch the last ccp video showing the player login graph as an example. They want to make it out all rosy but look at it more closely. The number of logins now is the same as it was before alpha's showed up. Good for you mission accomplished, I guess.
StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
#91 - 2016-12-23 19:04:45 UTC
Before the ability to remap attributes. If you wanted to train combat skills while doubling as an industrialist you had to endure training perc/will skills as an int/mem character.

The community is not toxic. Just very touchy when it comes to entitlement.

You asked for us to throw you a bone. Eve doesn't have bones. Is antimatter ok as a substitute?Evil

Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#92 - 2016-12-23 19:09:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Sobaan Tali
Demonspawn 666 wrote:
...otherwise why would anyone sub?


Exactly. CCP doesn't want to lift the restrictions on Alphas because anything added to their capability would directly discourage subbing for those that can. For those that cannot for legitimate reasons, you're still getting more than what you had before Alphas were added. If they give you more, CCP will only be effectively shooting themselves in the foot.

Edit: Because phones suck for this sort of thing. Either that or I suck with phones, which is actually more likely, I just don't like to admit when it's me.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Lilith Abaddon
Ethereal Morality
The Initiative.
#93 - 2016-12-23 19:11:01 UTC
Helix Coils wrote:
I can accept that even maxed out an alpha can't compete with an omega toe to toe. I can accept that we are gimped with what ships we can fly, modules we can use, skills we can use etc.

However this 1/2 speed skill nerf is killing me as far as enjoyment goes. I'm really not willing to wait around 2 weeks to be halfway competent in any one skill tree. 6 months to be "maxed out" Just. No.


Its a Pay To Win game baby. Deal with it. TwistedTwistedTwistedTwisted
Herbert G Wells
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2016-12-23 19:18:25 UTC
Helix Coils wrote:


All my posts other than quotes keep vanishing into the wind but I'm sure that mean's CCP is perfect right?


What do you mean by this?
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#95 - 2016-12-23 19:22:43 UTC
Helix Coils wrote:
So in other words, just subscribe and there are no issues? I'm glad we had this talk.


If $15/mo is too expensive for dozens and dozens of hours of entertainment, you really shouldn't be playing video games in the first place. Turn off the computer and start looking for a better job.

Hell, $15 is the price of two or three drinks on a friday night, and you don't want to pay it for something you can play all month?
Helix Coils
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#96 - 2016-12-23 19:23:02 UTC
Herbert G Wells wrote:
Helix Coils wrote:


All my posts other than quotes keep vanishing into the wind but I'm sure that mean's CCP is perfect right?


What do you mean by this?


It's probably nothing, I just wish I would remember to copy my comments before I post them so if they don't show up I can try again without typing it all out again. But yes, my comments always vanish and whoever I quoted stays.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#97 - 2016-12-23 19:24:35 UTC
Helix Coils wrote:
Watch the last ccp video showing the player login graph as an example. They want to make it out all rosy but look at it more closely. The number of logins now is the same as it was before alpha's showed up.

Dunno what stats you are referring to, but on eve-offline.net there is a clear difference in logins from before Alphas and now.

Anyway, letting you hit the cap won't make any difference. You will just come back once you hit that and complain again. Maybe EvE is just not for you, you whine about limitations, while all of those will be negligible if you actually join a corp.

Besides that, it is quite easy to earn enough isk for injectors on an Alpha or even a PLEX. You want faster skill training, farm some ISK and get that brain goo flowing.

EvE is not for everybody, that is just the reality.
Helix Coils
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#98 - 2016-12-23 19:25:48 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Helix Coils wrote:
So in other words, just subscribe and there are no issues? I'm glad we had this talk.


If $15/mo is too expensive for dozens and dozens of hours of entertainment, you really shouldn't be playing video games in the first place. Turn off the computer and start looking for a better job.

Hell, $15 is the price of two or three drinks on a friday night, and you don't want to pay it for something you can play all month?


You do realize that 15 dollars a month adds up. Do the math if you are capable. I guarantee you that the total is more than what I pay for clothes annually. Most people probably pay more but I don't spend 100 dollars a month on clothes.
Maekchu
Doomheim
#99 - 2016-12-23 19:31:00 UTC
Helix Coils wrote:
You do realize that 15 dollars a month adds up. Do the math if you are capable. I guarantee you that the total is more than what I pay for clothes annually. Most people probably pay more but I don't spend 100 dollars a month on clothes.

What are you talking about?

How does 15$ become larger than 100$ per month? If you decide to create additional alts, that is not really the fault of CCP. The game is perfectly playable with a single account.

Are you by chance talking about, that those 15$ builds up over a year? I assure you, that 180$ per year is still very cheap for several hours of entertainment.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#100 - 2016-12-23 19:34:17 UTC
Helix Coils wrote:
Herbert G Wells wrote:
Helix Coils wrote:


All my posts other than quotes keep vanishing into the wind but I'm sure that mean's CCP is perfect right?


What do you mean by this?


It's probably nothing, I just wish I would remember to copy my comments before I post them so if they don't show up I can try again without typing it all out again. But yes, my comments always vanish and whoever I quoted stays.

That's the HTFU feature of the EVE online forums.

Remove standings and insurance.