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Warfare & Tactics

 
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How to counter missiles
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Vex Munda
Anti Enslavement Movement
#1 - 2016-12-13 13:29:23 UTC
Hey,

I just read about the changes they implemented this update. They removed defender missiles. Does this mean there is nothing to counter missile boats now? They have damage of their choosing, that can't miss or be countered (except by keeping range).

Would it work to time smartbombs to destroy missiles (I never tried)?
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#2 - 2016-12-13 15:46:54 UTC
There are still plenty of missile counters. They include:

1. Missile Guidance Disruptors. Use them to reduce a missile boat's range, application, or both.
2. Afterburners. If you're going faster than a missile's explosion velocity, you'll take less damage. (MWDs do not work on most hulls due to the penalty to signature radius)
3. Smartbombs. You can set up "firewalls" against missiles, but this is highly situational and usually only works in large fleet fights where a lot of missiles are all coming in in from roughly one point.


Don't be sad about the demise of defender missiles as a missile counter. They were woefully inadequate at their previous role anyways.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#3 - 2016-12-13 20:33:25 UTC  |  Edited by: May Arethusa
ECM.
Damps.
Sig Tanking.
Speed Tanking.
Right full rudder, reverse Starboard engines.
Straight up Tanking.
Smartbombs.
Missile Guidance Disruptors.
Using your buddy's sub as a decoy.

Missiles aren't that great.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#4 - 2016-12-14 01:48:30 UTC
Vex Munda wrote:


Would it work to time smartbombs to destroy missiles (I never tried)?


this what everyone does. it's hard to get the timing right when your ship is moving so it's better to ctrl and space to stop your ship so you can watch them coming in and then pulse smartbomb 1 second before they hit.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#5 - 2016-12-14 13:56:25 UTC
May Arethusa wrote:
Right full rudder, reverse Starboard engines.

...

Right full rudder, reverse Starboard engines.

One ping only please. Blink

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#6 - 2016-12-14 13:59:21 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Vex Munda wrote:


Would it work to time smartbombs to destroy missiles (I never tried)?


this what everyone does. it's hard to get the timing right when your ship is moving so it's better to ctrl and space to stop your ship so you can watch them coming in and then pulse smartbomb 1 second before they hit.

Except that if you're stationary and you don't get the timing right, they'll hit for considerably more damage than if you had been moving.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Rei Y
Minmatar Citizen 90483936 Corporation
#7 - 2016-12-16 16:24:34 UTC
holy dude, I missed that part.
does it apply to NPC defender missiles too? 75% chance of defenders on team burners was such a pain. I noticed less (or no) defending on some burners recently, but I havent had a jaguar yet - that one was ridiculously bad, or should I say good at nerfing my missile dps.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2017-01-13 12:17:02 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Vex Munda wrote:


Would it work to time smartbombs to destroy missiles (I never tried)?


this what everyone does. it's hard to get the timing right when your ship is moving so it's better to ctrl and space to stop your ship so you can watch them coming in and then pulse smartbomb 1 second before they hit.



some bigger missiles (namely torps) can be fully negated using 7 smart bombs if you time them right there is 0 chance of a torp making it through the range of the smart bombs in th brief period none are going off.


At least this used to be the case we would use it on bait carriers to counter bomber drops

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#9 - 2017-01-14 17:37:27 UTC
SP rebate inbound?
Abyss Azizora
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2017-01-15 10:18:39 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Vex Munda wrote:


Would it work to time smartbombs to destroy missiles (I never tried)?


this what everyone does. it's hard to get the timing right when your ship is moving so it's better to ctrl and space to stop your ship so you can watch them coming in and then pulse smartbomb 1 second before they hit.



some bigger missiles (namely torps) can be fully negated using 7 smart bombs if you time them right there is 0 chance of a torp making it through the range of the smart bombs in th brief period none are going off.


At least this used to be the case we would use it on bait carriers to counter bomber drops


Not viable anymore, since it takes multiple smartbombs to kill a single torp now. But you can still vastly reduce the damage.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#11 - 2017-01-20 13:16:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Abyss Azizora wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Vex Munda wrote:


Would it work to time smartbombs to destroy missiles (I never tried)?


this what everyone does. it's hard to get the timing right when your ship is moving so it's better to ctrl and space to stop your ship so you can watch them coming in and then pulse smartbomb 1 second before they hit.



some bigger missiles (namely torps) can be fully negated using 7 smart bombs if you time them right there is 0 chance of a torp making it through the range of the smart bombs in th brief period none are going off.


At least this used to be the case we would use it on bait carriers to counter bomber drops


Not viable anymore, since it takes multiple smartbombs to kill a single torp now. But you can still vastly reduce the damage.



good it was broken af though i imagine it's still quit effective


wait no i just looked

large smart bomb 375 damage torp hp 360 or am i missing something? max vel 4748 smart bomb cycle time 10s/7=1.42 range 7500/4748 =1.57

so it takes the torps 1.57 seconds to get through a gap only 1.42 seconds long. now same damage as torp still has a small chance to get in but all you need to do is use smart bombs that match your highest resist

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2017-01-21 05:15:10 UTC
Vex Munda wrote:
They removed defender missiles. Does this mean there is nothing to counter missile boats now?
Bronson Hughes wrote:
1. Missile Guidance Disruptors. Use them to reduce a missile boat's range, application, or both.
2. Afterburners. If you're going faster than a missile's explosion velocity, you'll take less damage. (MWDs do not work on most hulls due to the penalty to signature radius)
3. Smartbombs. You can set up "firewalls" against missiles, but this is highly situational and usually only works in large fleet fights where a lot of missiles are all coming in in from roughly one point.

You guys are missing the most important way to counter missiles: the same way you counter turrets--ship by ship. Here's some counters:
Breacher is countered by Algos
Kestrel is countered by Cormorant
Talwar is countered by Omen
Jackdaw is countered by Arbitrator
Drake is countered by Harbinger
Bellicose is countered by Hurricane

Just a few examples. To counter a ship, pick a ship that's naturally good against it. We don't need direct counters to missiles, because counters to missile ships exist.


Vex Munda wrote:
Would it work to time smartbombs to destroy missiles (I never tried)?
Yes it does indeed, however it is difficult to time it just right.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Lugh Crow-Slave
#13 - 2017-01-21 06:08:45 UTC
O.o how is the corm a counter to the kestrel?

kestrel has full range dictation in a fight and can easily out range a blaster corm or get under the guns of a rail corm. now algos, algos counter kestrel... algos counter almost all frigate.

and how is harb the counter to the drake? harbs generally cant even out dps my tank?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2017-01-22 00:48:42 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
O.o how is the corm a counter to the kestrel?

kestrel has full range dictation in a fight and can easily out range a blaster corm or get under the guns of a rail corm. now algos, algos counter kestrel... algos counter almost all frigate.

and how is harb the counter to the drake? harbs generally cant even out dps my tank?

Kestrel get under the guns of a rail Cormorant? Not a chance. The Cormorant may have reduced application if it doesn't use a target painter, but the Kestrel won't hold up long under even that. Dictating range means little when the opponent can beat you at every range you can shoot out to. The Kestrel may be able to run, but it can't stand and fight.


Combat battlecruisers and battleships often have such high tank that a well-tanked one cannot be beaten in a 1v1 against anything in its class. But in a 5v5 Drakes vs Harbingers, the Harbingers will crush the Drakes like so much garbage unless the Drakes have the advantage of foresight and select the right hardeners.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Lugh Crow-Slave
#15 - 2017-01-22 03:23:03 UTC
going with no point fitting glass cannon and tracking your doing about 150 at 2.5km with most of the damgae being against 58% kin resist to an average scram kite kestrel if he is poor at managing trans and for some reason engaged without an x-instinct. he is doing 155 to your weakest resist. I have yet to lose a kestrel to a corm outside of fleet engagements and overall the algos is just a flat better tool for dealing with just about any frigate.

don't fly harbs much but our average drake doctrine tanks 477+((fleet - 1) 439.5) EHP against em/therm so a five man fleet tanks about 2.235k dps before it starts out passing the shields. now a harb would almost certainly beat a rlml drake fleet though overall i would just warp in a wing of nados at range to deal with them if we wanted to stay in the BC class otherwise there are several cruisers that can do it better than harbs

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2017-02-20 14:19:45 UTC
Another way to counter missiles would be to use more missiles! Big smile
Lugh Crow-Slave
#17 - 2017-02-20 14:30:52 UTC
Henry Plantgenet wrote:
Another way to counter missiles would be to use more missiles! Big smile




well at least that used to be the case :/

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#18 - 2017-02-28 14:16:54 UTC
Fly faster.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Skelee VI
Appetite 4 Destruction
#19 - 2017-03-01 17:11:51 UTC
Easiest way to counter missiles is a falcon