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Wishfull message to EC owners
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Mytrumpcard Golemov
Killing with pink power
Penguins with lasorz
#1 - 2016-12-12 16:29:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Mytrumpcard Golemov
So yesterday I went around tested different EC's raitaru and azbel were of absolutely zero use to me, for the sole reason that the benefits they provide were far worse than what you could do with what you had before.The bonuses were too bad.The Sotiyo however was very nice specially the time bonus for some test jobs it lowered the time by a huge amount like 2hours and it didn't increase the job cost, however currently I(and i presume many other people) will not use your ECs on a large scale because when you were placing it you forgot to take in mind the most important thing which is system index cost or something w/e its called.


Placing research invent or industry Sotiyos in so close to JIta systems(aka perimeter) will not yield the desired results, if you however were to place Sotiyos in systems which were at the least 5-6jumps away from Jita I'm sure they will be widely used.You see for the small industrialist every bit of profit matters and it is not the small tax you've placed that hurts him the most but the system cost.So if you want to make bank by collecting taxes do what I suggested, imagine if you could gather few large industrial players for your EC, a single corp would bring you 1-3b monthly income solely from the taxes on jobs.Think what you could do with more.


Edit:

Also having different types of bonuses on each Sotiyo is good idea some industrialist focus on ships other on modules other on invent and other on research or copy.
morion
Lighting Build
#2 - 2016-12-12 17:24:59 UTC
Mytrumpcard Golemov wrote:
So yesterday I went around tested different EC's raitaru and azbel were of absolutely zero use to me, for the sole reason that the benefits they provide were far worse than what you could do with what you had before.The bonuses were too bad.The Sotiyo however was very nice specially the time bonus for some test jobs it lowered the time by a huge amount like 2hours and it didn't increase the job cost, however currently I(and i presume many other people) will not use your ECs on a large scale because when you were placing it you forgot to take in mind the most important thing which is system index cost or something w/e its called.


Placing research invent or industry Sotiyos in so close to JIta systems(aka perimeter) will not yield the desired results, if you however were to place Sotiyos in systems which were at the least 5-6jumps away from Jita I'm sure they will be widely used.You see for the small industrialist every bit of profit matters and it is not the small tax you've placed that hurts him the most but the system cost.So if you want to make bank by collecting taxes do what I suggested, imagine if you could gather few large industrial players for your EC, a single corp would bring you 1-3b monthly income solely from the taxes on jobs.Think what you could do with more.


Edit:

Also having different types of bonuses on each Sotiyo is good idea some industrialist focus on ships other on modules other on invent and other on research or copy.


I imagine that 1-3b monthly you elude to.

being spent to hire military to defend the location.
Mytrumpcard Golemov
Killing with pink power
Penguins with lasorz
#3 - 2016-12-12 17:33:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mytrumpcard Golemov
morion wrote:
Mytrumpcard Golemov wrote:
So yesterday I went around tested different EC's raitaru and azbel were of absolutely zero use to me, for the sole reason that the benefits they provide were far worse than what you could do with what you had before.The bonuses were too bad.The Sotiyo however was very nice specially the time bonus for some test jobs it lowered the time by a huge amount like 2hours and it didn't increase the job cost, however currently I(and i presume many other people) will not use your ECs on a large scale because when you were placing it you forgot to take in mind the most important thing which is system index cost or something w/e its called.


Placing research invent or industry Sotiyos in so close to JIta systems(aka perimeter) will not yield the desired results, if you however were to place Sotiyos in systems which were at the least 5-6jumps away from Jita I'm sure they will be widely used.You see for the small industrialist every bit of profit matters and it is not the small tax you've placed that hurts him the most but the system cost.So if you want to make bank by collecting taxes do what I suggested, imagine if you could gather few large industrial players for your EC, a single corp would bring you 1-3b monthly income solely from the taxes on jobs.Think what you could do with more.


Edit:

Also having different types of bonuses on each Sotiyo is good idea some industrialist focus on ships other on modules other on invent and other on research or copy.


I imagine that 1-3b monthly you elude to.

being spent to hire military to defend the location.


True but I imagine that if someone has 400b to buy the bpo and build the EC also has enough money to pay for a good defence force plus that 1-3b is from single corp, what if the users were like 4-5corps?Then they would not only pay the defence fee but will also cover the fuel and even leave extra for profit.
morion
Lighting Build
#4 - 2016-12-12 17:41:21 UTC
At that rate of return of 1-3 on 400 is

0.25% -> 0.75% sub 1% rate of return

for the super large borg sure.

sounds like your describing a military / with a service tax local.
Mytrumpcard Golemov
Killing with pink power
Penguins with lasorz
#5 - 2016-12-12 17:51:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mytrumpcard Golemov
Yes that's true but such entities exist (note perimeter) it seems and I was merely pointing them how to make a better profit and not trow another 300b at the wrong part of the galaxySmile
And ofc they could be putting them so close to jita for personal reasons but if we all work together like ccp want us to it seems we could all stand to gain from it and make eve great againP
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#6 - 2016-12-12 18:50:16 UTC
There were 2 dozen public engineering complexes in Perimeter the last time I checked and god knows how many private ones. The system cost index is already over 10% for some services and getting close for the rest.

The system cost index was created specifically to discourage the clustering we see in Perimeter. It will be interesting to see how long it takes before the index gets so high most of these guys move. Manufacturers don't have that kind of profit margin to throw away to save a couple of jumps. There are limits to the value of convenience and 10% SCI has to exceed that limit for most - I know I start to feel pinched when it crosses 3%!
Haffsol
#7 - 2016-12-12 19:26:14 UTC
No victory is possible against the "minerals I mine are free" brigade! They'd build even at 90% SCI cuz it's still 10% profit right? Lol
morion
Lighting Build
#8 - 2016-12-12 19:49:06 UTC
The minerals I sell and purchase back for less are short sold

but not exactly free.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-12-12 20:56:15 UTC
The best place to install a manufacturing structure for profit is a system with high Index. So Perimeter is the best choice, the index is rising because people use the structures and pay taxes. However this is not the best place for consumers of course ...

... btw, any successful public EC will wreck the index in that system.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Mytrumpcard Golemov
Killing with pink power
Penguins with lasorz
#10 - 2016-12-13 01:38:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Mytrumpcard Golemov
Tipa Riot wrote:
The best place to install a manufacturing structure for profit is a system with high Index. So Perimeter is the best choice, the index is rising because people use the structures and pay taxes. However this is not the best place for consumers of course ...

... btw, any successful public EC will wreck the index in that system.


The logic would go that way yes, but maybe they would make even more if the people who can deploy one test it in other system, because the system index in perimeter is not high solely from manufacturing it was used for many things before ec was even deployed there, but if the people who can deploy Sotiyo drop it in system which many industrialist use they would make much more in taxes because of the sheer volume of items being built that is my opinion. At least in the november economic report Lonetrek was the biggest import and export region.That's a hint btwLol But I'm really curious to see the next report which would show us figures from perimeter.

tl dr:

Please built sotiyo in the systems i make my stuffsLolLol jk
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#11 - 2016-12-13 18:51:58 UTC
So: that happened.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Karin Yang
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2016-12-14 20:56:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Karin Yang
1. EC's bonus is depending on its rigs. A T2 rigged raitaru's bonus isn't inferior to a T1 rigged Sotiyo, at least in ME. You need to check what rigs they're fitted.
2. Don't mention profit any more. I am sure no public EC runner is running them for profit, because there isn't any profit. As a reference, 16 T2 rigged (popular)raitaru @ 9% cost index and 3% tax rate make 100m/day in total, and total fuel cost is 2b/month. While initial investment is over 70bil. If you anchor a fully rigged Sotiyo, its materials currently are worth 120b. We do this for fun, not money.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/5c3r4k/planning_on_making_a_profit_out_of_the_industry/
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-12-14 22:45:38 UTC
100m/day is not much Ugh ... another point showing the EC system as a whole does not work for public service.

I'm my own NPC alt.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#14 - 2016-12-14 23:10:22 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
100m/day is not much Ugh ... another point showing the EC system as a whole does not work for public service.


Your assumption is that ECs are for public service. The reality is, they are for a dedicated group of industrialists who wish to focus on a specific set of actions and want bonuses for those actions. Allowing public access is just a side perk to offset a little more of the cost of you are lucky. On the other hand, a Corp could setup one in a stationless high sec system and do well by avoiding systems with more costly indices. If they could protect it, you could get much larger bonuses and benefits out in null. There you could even make it part of a rental system. You rent the system and access to the EC. The renters pay a fee and taxes as well.
Karin Yang
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2016-12-14 23:14:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Karin Yang
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
100m/day is not much Ugh ... another point showing the EC system as a whole does not work for public service.


Your assumption is that ECs are for public service. The reality is, they are for a dedicated group of industrialists who wish to focus on a specific set of actions and want bonuses for those actions. Allowing public access is just a side perk to offset a little more of the cost of you are lucky. On the other hand, a Corp could setup one in a stationless high sec system and do well by avoiding systems with more costly indices. If they could protect it, you could get much larger bonuses and benefits out in null. There you could even make it part of a rental system. You rent the system and access to the EC. The renters pay a fee and taxes as well.

Allowing public access will only result in rise of system cost index. If you do this for your corp, keep it private, and you save more from low system index
TomyLobo
U2EZ
#16 - 2016-12-14 23:30:53 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
100m/day is not much Ugh ... another point showing the EC system as a whole does not work for public service.


Your assumption is that ECs are for public service. The reality is, they are for a dedicated group of industrialists who wish to focus on a specific set of actions and want bonuses for those actions. Allowing public access is just a side perk to offset a little more of the cost of you are lucky. On the other hand, a Corp could setup one in a stationless high sec system and do well by avoiding systems with more costly indices. If they could protect it, you could get much larger bonuses and benefits out in null. There you could even make it part of a rental system. You rent the system and access to the EC. The renters pay a fee and taxes as well.

You would still have to ramp up production significantly, in comparison to a POS, to turn a profit so the index is still getting wrecked regardless.