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WTS eve (really?)
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Arcelian
0nus
#201 - 2016-12-12 05:27:10 UTC
A lot of angst and worry, over pretty much nothing.
Salvos Rhoska
#202 - 2016-12-12 05:28:11 UTC
I doubt it would change much regarding EVE.

Investors just want their returns.

New investors may have other things they are interested in but EVE is the core product.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#203 - 2016-12-12 05:59:30 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If you would look at CCP's lineup, the money is in their newer developments. Eve Online is the aging showgirl. She's got legacy, experience, and tenure. But she's just getting old too.

I don't think CCP would be bought for Eve Online. Heck the F2P/P2W monetization effort looks like it was done to make it less of a drag on the overall portfolio.

The risk here is, what would happen to EO? Would a new owner see only a future in the other products and "dump that old MMO"?

As I said before, the old models of MMO is becoming a drag compared to skill and equipment customization options seen in other games that lack grind and drama. It appears to have started around 2010. Game developers are not as static as some of their classes and functions. They observe and adapt. Gear and skill customization in FPS games was a big hit. In Eve Online it took time, and lots of it, until skill extraction/injection. In WoW there was skill grinding. I left WoW at the end of 2007 (almost a decade!) but I to even think of "crafting" makes me want to burn things.

Now I know what will come from this "Hurf blurf!!! Quick gratification! HTFU!"

Sorry, but grinding and waiting just to die in a fire was never "good game" (except for at best 400K people who like abuse). The thing ultimately is this: we are talking about a GAME here. While quick gratification may be a bad thing IRL (see r/K selection theory), it's not going to hurt anything by steering for it in a GAME. That is, people log in to play a game and want to be entertained. They have all day at their jobs and other obligations to be making longer term investments and make an effort towards faith, patience, and perseverance. So they do enough of that IRL to pay their bills, make those grades, support their families.

They don't want to log into a game just to get more of that during what little spare time they might have.

I foresee a future where the Eve Online MMO is going to go by the wayside. No "eve is dying" though. The "brand" will go on for a long time. Heck a day will come when kids are playing some Eve-based VR stuff or FPS/combat and we'll be saying "yeah back in my day, it was a subscription MMO system and it took a while to get into a fight, needing time to get skills and materials to build and fly ships".

They will think we were crazy.


What I hope for personally is that the Eve "brand" expands outside of the bounds of the dinosaur MMO model and the genre continues on that vector that it appeared to be edging towards some years ago. Someone at one time did have that dream, that this would be more than a game. It was to be a community, with an entire storyline, and a history. There were chronicles, novels, live events that players would make history in, etc.

But the player base said "muh ISK/stats everything else is a waste!" and they started having tantrums. CCP listened.

The game got boring because it was just a game after all that. Then players started to realize they could weaponize that boredom. From that came the Great Malaise of 2014 and the golden age is not coming back.

But I don't think this is the end. We might lose the MMO. An idea that at one time might have seemed impossible. After all, all that time building SP - oh wait it does not take time now, and existing SP can be "converted" to something else.
So can ISK.
So bittervets are not going to be shown the door. They will still be bitter though. Maybe some aspect of legacy Eve will always be kept around as a low priority so vets can ship spin and grimace at everything else, saying things like "these damned kids today don't know what they are missing!".


EVE is fading away because it's old, outdated, and comitted to never change that. They have a core custoemr base and gave up on the rest of the playerbase. In my eyes, as one of the players left behind, CCP could had split its efforts and keep everybody happy with their subscription money. Make Citadel 10% less awesome for PvP multiplayers and do something for the PvE, highsec and solo crowds. But that's the past. EVE's future is already written, and probably it will go into maintenance mode by 2018 once they finish the Rubicon Plan. Maybe this would had happen no matter the what; maybe adding new PvE dungeons with each release would just caused a greater disappointment on PvE players by giving them hopes that CCP appreciate their playstyle.

Anyone buying CCP should be aware of this. CCP's main asset is profitable but in a irreversible decline and their new assets are in a high risk market with dim prospects and dangerous competition. Also that potential buyer should know that CCP can't revert the decline of EVE Online because that decline is a natural consequence of CCP's corporate culture, and changing that corporate culture would quickly destroy the software's ability to keep working. So if you buy EVE Online, you buy it as a declining legacy MMO with a few good years left before dying. CCP can't un-CCP EVE Online, and what was once CCP'ed will die CCP'ed.

CCP has proven time and again that they're a one trick pony. But, what SPLENDIFEROUS trick they pulled! Lol


Aye good ideas there. But you might know how marketers think. I do. Much chance that someone will come along and make a play at "one last great surge". And you know what that means. They'll be giving away the store. In many ways it already feels like the store is being given away. That is, the content in the game is better than ever, but the game is still in decline. I could wax poetic about how all of the new stuff added since 2014 would have been nerdgasm level epic back in say 2009-2013.

Now it's mostly "meh". It's not bad stuff. IMO the developers of this game have done an extraordinary job. But all that good development and new content has the appearance of wasted effort.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#204 - 2016-12-12 06:09:35 UTC
Toobo wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
The Devils Cousin wrote:
Jake Warbird wrote:
Imagine the irony if Blizz snapped this up...


If blizz took over this game would improve ten fold



How?

Kill 15 Guristas pirates and bring back their bandannas?

(I feel like burning stuff now)


Blizz may do silly things that traditional EVE players absolutely hate, but they do have incredible record of commercial success.

EVE may change in a way that makes all bitter vets leave, but I would be very confident that it would be a game with a lot more players logged on doing silly little things like you've described.

It will no longer be EVE as we know it, but it will be a very commercially successful game, and will attract many more players than we've ever seen in this game.

I probably get flamed for saying it, but if I can kill 15 Guristas pirates and bring back their bandannas, and then earn some ISK and use that to buy new emotes for my avatar, I probably stick around. Big smile



Your comments lend to my theory. Eve is not going to die. It's going to have as much lasting power as Firefly (unless they make Wil Wheaton the voice of Aura and the game does die with one big "Shut up, Wesley!"). Notice I don't say Star Wars or Star Trek. Eve is just not mainstream enough. Would it ever be in the future? You never know. Somebody might make a movie based on it or a series of novels might get written. Maybe there will be a perfect storm for this VR stuff and the Eve genre is in the right place at the right time.

But yeah, it will certainly change. The MMO is becoming the anachronism, they all are. It's getting harder then ever to find anybody under 35 who plays them. I have a nephew in college and he qualifies to have his portrait as the definition for the word "gamer" in the dictionary. I asked him about MMORPG/MMO games a few weeks ago and he looked at me like I was making inside jokes based on Land of the Lost reruns.

(Yeah I'm old)

And again, since SP and ISK have become more "convertible" I don't think players who have much invested in the game thus far, noobs and bittervets alike, are going to be dumped in the evolution. Notice that having lots of SP is now meaningless. I used to boast about my 80 million SP now I would get told "80 mil dude you don't need that get some extractors". Having lots of SP meaningless means that having played the game for a long time is meaningless too. This is not a complaint, just stating the fact. It's no big deal in the end.

A good time was had by all.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#205 - 2016-12-12 06:13:38 UTC
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
The Devils Cousin wrote:
Jake Warbird wrote:
Imagine the irony if Blizz snapped this up...


If blizz took over this game would improve ten fold



How?

Kill 15 Guristas pirates and bring back their bandannas?

(I feel like burning stuff now)


Could be far worse than that:

"You alone are the capsuleer who will defend New Eden from the Drifter Legions!"

(I have a dislike of the "chosen one" trope)



Now I need a flamethrower.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
mkint
#206 - 2016-12-12 06:20:01 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

I foresee a future where the Eve Online MMO is going to go by the wayside. No "eve is dying" though. The "brand" will go on for a long time. Heck a day will come when kids are playing some Eve-based VR stuff or FPS/combat and we'll be saying "yeah back in my day, it was a subscription MMO system and it took a while to get into a fight, needing time to get skills and materials to build and fly ships".

They will think we were crazy.


Instant gratification is a market bubble.

Granted, there's always a market for instant gratification, but culture moves in cycles. We are approaching an "achievement" cycle, comparable to how pre-depression entitlement culture gave way to post-war social achievement culture. EVE is uniquely positioned to take advantage of that shift, and do amazing things. What I am much less sure of is if CCP can execute. If CCP can survive the next 10 years, keeping EVE afloat with it, EVE will be able to catch a cultural wave that it can ride for a hundred years. The part that makes me nervous is that CCP still doesn't seem to understand what makes people care about EVE. They don't seem to understand the narrative, what people experience while they are learning EVE.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Canon Makanen
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#207 - 2016-12-12 06:30:05 UTC
Do we have any chances to have some formal reply regarding this rumors and reports from Bloomberg, as we all concern about our favorite game and its future.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#208 - 2016-12-12 06:41:31 UTC
Canon Makanen wrote:
Do we have any chances to have some formal reply regarding this rumors and reports from Bloomberg, as we all concern about our favorite game and its future.

Two chances most likely:

None and Buckley's
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#209 - 2016-12-12 08:17:49 UTC
'loose lips sink ships' and all that. We won't get an official post until any deal is done, so as to not damage that deal one way or another. Not that this rumor or leak(whichever it is)getting started hasn't already driven a large spike of uncertainty into a large portion of the player base, even the most hardcore fan will be watching to see what happens if for no other reason than because they want to know, no matter how 'unworried' they say they are, it's vague enough to not cause a mass unsub overnight.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#210 - 2016-12-12 09:24:25 UTC
mkint wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

I foresee a future where the Eve Online MMO is going to go by the wayside. No "eve is dying" though. The "brand" will go on for a long time. Heck a day will come when kids are playing some Eve-based VR stuff or FPS/combat and we'll be saying "yeah back in my day, it was a subscription MMO system and it took a while to get into a fight, needing time to get skills and materials to build and fly ships".

They will think we were crazy.


Instant gratification is a market bubble.

Granted, there's always a market for instant gratification, but culture moves in cycles. We are approaching an "achievement" cycle, comparable to how pre-depression entitlement culture gave way to post-war social achievement culture. EVE is uniquely positioned to take advantage of that shift, and do amazing things. What I am much less sure of is if CCP can execute. If CCP can survive the next 10 years, keeping EVE afloat with it, EVE will be able to catch a cultural wave that it can ride for a hundred years. The part that makes me nervous is that CCP still doesn't seem to understand what makes people care about EVE. They don't seem to understand the narrative, what people experience while they are learning EVE.



Now that is very interesting. You may be right.

And in the future, as before, more skins and tiericide are not going to be the best answer.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#211 - 2016-12-12 10:12:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Hey, I dont understand how it is outdated, It aged well, extremely well for me, maybe because they redesigned much of the assets and spaceships that needed it. The art direction is consistent and is pleasurable to eye, despite some particular obvious no-no's forgotten in some places.

But when I see just a normal wiev outside station when I come from it, it looks good, the combat is looking great, camera options are customizable enough for me to keep screen not shaking and dont give me seizures. There is potential for a sci-fi freak to do what you want and how much you want, and dont even pay a $, because its free now. I really think its an enjoyable package.

So I would play EVE over some generic colorful WoW-y fantasy stuff.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Lexia Hunter
Doomheim
#212 - 2016-12-12 10:51:42 UTC
I want to see what CCP have to say. This is all speculation at the moment.

Come on CCP Say something.
Don Pera Saissore
#213 - 2016-12-12 11:03:31 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Nope, and please keep your feedback to the appropriate thread.
Ben Johannson
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2016-12-12 11:37:38 UTC
Whole businesses aren't sold to raise money for improving the business you no longer own. They're sold so the existing investors can cash out and move on. This was inevitable when the owners consist of private equity and venture capital.
Kiaksar2142
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#215 - 2016-12-12 11:49:26 UTC
100% that Microsoft won't bother with EVE Online. they have failed so much times with mmo's. they will simply afraid to mess with it.
so as i said before, if its Microsoft, they were there only for VR technology.
CCP is not that stupid to sell its dollar generating machine =D
Viktor Hadah
Negative-Impact
#216 - 2016-12-12 11:56:07 UTC
I can't roll my eyes hard enough over all this speculation.

CCP has not been owned by CCP for a long time. It has always been for sale for the right price in theory. If someone like EA really wanted it that badly i assure you they would have acquired it. Everyone is thinking of this acquisition from a gamer stand point instead of a business stand point. I don't see it being very likely that it is acquired by another video game company.

EVE has been around for over 10 years and is a relatively stable game it would be extremely imprudent for the new owner to come in and try to change everything around. Chances are if(and a big if at that) if CCP changes hands f*ck all is going to happen to it surface level wise. Pretty much like when it was first acquired years ago.

.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#217 - 2016-12-12 12:40:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Toobo
/mkint

Considering what has been happening around the world in recent times, not to mention some of the big events of this year, I really do not see how our world is entering age of 'achievement'. Either we are understanding the terms very differently, or looking at the different world, or we are looking at the same world but interpreting it in very different ways.

In any case, that's more got to do with social changes & world view, so perhaps not the most natural topic for GD, so I won't pick on that much here. :p

/Herzog,

aye, times are changing, both IRL and in the 'gaming world'. I do not want to keep going on about other specific companies here, but the Blizzard example is actually a very good one, a success story. 'Serious critiques' (whatever that may mean) may point fingers at how what they have done is not that original and there were other preceding games that introduced the new ideas, etc, but history (and numbers) will always remember them as having had massive commercial success with great mass appeal. That may not make their games 'better', but certainly they know how to make something with the right production quality and balance, that will sell like hot cakes.

What's also impressive with Blizz is that they have done it in different genres. They had Star Craft/War Craft (RTS), they had Diablo (Diabolo III not as massive hit as it could have been but I don't think they 'lost' any money on that), WoW, and now doing it with Overwatch (FPS).

All their games, old enough gamers will be able to point to other games that have 'done' it before Blizzard came along, and 'pioneered', but I don't think Blizzard cares about those fine points, they managed to grab the genre and turn them into blockbuster hits - quality? you could argue, but ticket sales? they are the kings.

EVE, I love it for what it is, despite its fault, and I do believe CCP does EVE better than anybody ever will, but that's because we are already EVE players and we have expectations of what this game should be. But EVE could change, under the ownership with someone else (if they do decide to interfere with the game's direction/visions), and yes, us existing players may hate it, but it can end up becoming a massive commercial success.

I can see a few ways it can work. Dumb it down to the level that will make bitter vets cry, make more casual/instantly accessible actions/PVPs, introduce avatar play with silly (but undeiably cute) emotes & clothings, drive the old boys (and girls) out and fill it with millions of teenagers and college students, make it something ridiculous, but fun, and addictive, with spoon fed PVE contents with plenty of gimmicks, set pieces and cinematics.

Yeah, that would make all the bitter vets cry, but I can see it work, and unlike some of the other EVE players I have always enjoyed the 'other side' of the gaming spectrum (for me, Star Craft, War Craft, WoW, and Overwatch, have all been AWESOME games). I would be sad we lose 'EVE' as we know it, but since I can and do enjoy games other than EVE, I probably continue to enjoy this 'new EVE' as a new game, and probably show boat around the new universe as a 'ghost from the previous generation' because every other serious EVE player of now has left, lol.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
2Sonas1Cup
#218 - 2016-12-12 12:45:09 UTC
rip eve cash out before it's too late guys **** is going down
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#219 - 2016-12-12 13:03:05 UTC
mkint
#220 - 2016-12-12 13:54:42 UTC
Toobo wrote:
/mkint

Considering what has been happening around the world in recent times, not to mention some of the big events of this year, I really do not see how our world is entering age of 'achievement'. Either we are understanding the terms very differently, or looking at the different world, or we are looking at the same world but interpreting it in very different ways.

In any case, that's more got to do with social changes & world view, so perhaps not the most natural topic for GD, so I won't pick on that much here. :p


Like I said, we've got about 10 years for the current cultural cycle (which has been consistently repeating over hundreds of years, maybe longer) to go through its transition. Last time (in the 1940's-1950's) the transition was quick. At least according to people who study these things. Even if the cycle fails this time, CCP is in a position to turn EVE into an "establishment" the same way a lot of the WW2 business became establishments by being the sole providers of unique products, the way IBM still fills the same fundamental needs for businesses that it has for generations. That is, assuming CCP can even figure out what it is people are getting out of EVE (hint: EVE isn't the cheap disposable garbage of companies with limited longevity.)

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.