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Hi, new player here who is using missiles exclusively for my combat ships.
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Vito Tattaglia
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-12-25 03:49:20 UTC
I know that missiles are frowned upon in PvP, but since I'm Caldari that what I use primarily. As the day the my corp moves to Low-Sec gets closer and closer, I find myself wondering, if I shouldn't use missiles, what should I use instead?
Kiyl
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
#2 - 2011-12-25 04:12:48 UTC
Since when have Missiles been frowned upon in PvP?

Edit: Maybe large scale fleet fights, but not small gangs/solo.
Vito Tattaglia
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-12-25 04:15:09 UTC
Kiyl wrote:
Since when have Missiles been frowned upon in PvP?

Edit: Maybe large scale fleet fights, but not small gangs/solo.


Everybody rags on them since they take a while for them to hit the targets.
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#4 - 2011-12-25 04:26:16 UTC
Vito Tattaglia wrote:
Kiyl wrote:
Since when have Missiles been frowned upon in PvP?

Edit: Maybe large scale fleet fights, but not small gangs/solo.


Everybody rags on them since they take a while for them to hit the targets.


Move to a corp that's not full of mouthbreathers unless your corp exclusively uses sniper fleets.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#5 - 2011-12-25 05:20:27 UTC
I agree, if you're in a corporation that insists that missiles are bad you should find a less ignorant corproation.
Dradius Calvantia
Lip Shords
#6 - 2011-12-25 05:25:11 UTC
In some situations, missiles work perfectly fine. They have their advantages and disadvantages just like every other weapon systems.

The important things to remember when using missiles are:

99% of the time, faction missiles are better than using either of the T2 variants
Using Crash is pretty much required when shooting at ships of a smaller class
You will usually have the range advantage, use it (Too many HML drake pilots just let close range ships sit on their face)
Missiles DPS usually receives a larger advantage from painters and webs, do not forget to comp them
You are useless in an Alpha fleet. If a missile boat is all you have, fill a support role instead

Missile ships that work just fine in PVP:

PodLa (Nano) Drake
Most other Drake variants
CN Hookbill
Worm
Merlin
HAM Legion
Caracal (For some lol anti-frig fits)
Nuet Phoon
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-12-25 05:28:48 UTC
Keep in mind that the second most popular pvp ship in the game is the Drake, thats 100% missile boat last time I checked.

There are many, MANY versions of a Pvp Drake, learn then and there tactics. Drop your current corp as they really don't know the power of the Drake Train!

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Vito Tattaglia
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-12-25 06:42:35 UTC
It's actually not my corp that is ragging on missiles, it's just what I picked up while reading the Evelopedia.
Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-12-25 07:13:31 UTC
Try something on TQ before you write it off. Personal experience is far greater than reading about it and listening to stories. Decide for yourself if you think something is effective or not.

MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.  -Garresh-
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-12-25 08:17:47 UTC
Vito Tattaglia wrote:
I know that missiles are frowned upon in PvP, but since I'm Caldari that what I use primarily. As the day the my corp moves to Low-Sec gets closer and closer, I find myself wondering, if I shouldn't use missiles, what should I use instead?

Just because your character is Caldari doesn't mean you can only fly Caldari ships. Any character can train for any ship in game and be just as good with it.

Training another race's (subcap) ships shouldn't take more than a few days, and training another weapon system maybe a week or two.
Shaalira D'arc
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2011-12-25 08:31:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Shaalira D'arc
Fly with what you're comfortable and used to using, then branch out (if you feel the need) after you gain some experience.

As pointed out already, the Drake is a popular and common PvP ship. It's easy to train into, and relatively cost-effective.

If you're completely new to PvP, though, I'd recommend flying frigates, destroyers and t1 cruisers to get your feet wet. Your (probable) initial losses won't be as costly and you can focus on learning from each experience. Merlins, Kestrals, and Caracals are viable options for a new player.

Since your corp is moving to low-sec, read the classic Beginner's Guide to Piracy. Even if you have no plans of going pirate, the guide offers lessons in low-sec navigation, dscan use, and target selection that are universally useful.

Addendum: If you end up liking missiles and want to stick with them, try looking into some of the Amarr/Khanid missile boats. This includes the Vengeance, Sacrilege, etc. You'll have to train up in armor tanking skills.
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
#12 - 2011-12-25 14:19:08 UTC
Missiles are pretty handy in many PVP situations as they are not dependent on capacitor nor are they affected by tracking disruptors. The draw backs with say a HML drake is they don't pump out a lot of DPS so they generally require numbers to be effective. HAM drakes on the other hand can pump out a lot of DPS but lack the range of HML's so it's all a matter of picking the right tool for the job.

With frigs Rockets when combined with webs are pretty dam effective now days. Example a Dual web Hookbil can eat a Dramiel alive.
Torin Corax
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2011-12-25 16:28:54 UTC
Kiyl wrote:
Since when have Missiles been frowned upon in PvP?

Edit: Maybe large scale fleet fights, but not small gangs/solo.


Pretty much this^
For long range sniper fights they may be frowned on due to travel time, but in many situations they are a positive benefit. Missile boats tend to be hard targets for some of the nastier recons for example. Pilgrim and curse pilots may think twice before attacking you (not a guarantee ofc.) as tracking disruption is one of their bonused e-war, and this has no effect on missiles.

Missiles are also the only weapon system (other than drones under specific circumstances) that can allow you to continue firing while jammed. Not a great DPS output perhaps, but better than any turret user is going to get in those circumstances.
drdxie
#14 - 2011-12-25 23:59:13 UTC
I have a PvP toon in null, and I prefer the drake to the harby, even if the harby has better paper dps. In many small fleet battles the drakes out dps the cane's as they don't always hit 100% with each shot due to tracking. Canes will often get the final blow as they have a higher rate of fire. Range is your friend and a nano drake will outrun a plated harby and will beat him most times. Also a drake is very seldom primaried first.. so you will be a round for more kills.
Cant use t2 ac's so never tried a cane, but am in no hurry to change.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
Aessaya
Independent treasure hunters
#15 - 2011-12-26 02:52:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Aessaya
Missiles are perfectly good for pvp, mainly because of range advantage (they deal solid damage up till the max flight range which can get ludicriously hight for some ships), ability to tailor damage to the target (you can swotch to any damage type, especially if your ship does not have a specific damage type bonus) and the fact that they are not affected by transversal velocity.

Keep in mind though, that for heavier missiles not only the ship siganture but ship's linear speed also affect the damage, so you'd want to keep enemy as slow as possible. This as well makes them perfect for small fast ships. So for guided missiles i'd generally go with the painter and stasis web for the unguided ones. Guided missiles are the Light, Heavy and Cruise variations, while unguided ones are the Rockets, Heavy Assaults and Torpedoes. Also be aware that Guided Missile Precision skill and explosion radius rigs affect only the guided variety and have no effect on the unguided ones.

Also a lot of pilots underestimate missile boats, much to their own doom (and my fun, lol).

/proud pilot of HAM legion

edit:
@Dradius Calvantia - you have missed the Tengu :)

Ah, you seek meaning? Then listen to the music, not the song.
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#16 - 2011-12-26 19:41:31 UTC
Dradius Calvantia wrote:
In some situations, missiles work perfectly fine. They have their advantages and disadvantages just like every other weapon systems.

The important things to remember when using missiles are:

99% of the time, faction missiles are better than using either of the T2 variants


Ignore this - Rage works fine for same ship classes (HML Furies vs Battlecruisers hit for full damage) and are thus significantly better to use than Faction missiles. Keep Faction in the launchers and swap to Furies when y
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#17 - 2011-12-26 19:41:52 UTC
Dradius Calvantia wrote:
In some situations, missiles work perfectly fine. They have their advantages and disadvantages just like every other weapon systems.

The important things to remember when using missiles are:

99% of the time, faction missiles are better than using either of the T2 variants


Ignore this - Rage works fine for same ship classes (HML Furies vs Battlecruisers hit for full damage) and are thus significantly better to use than Faction missiles. Keep Faction in the launchers and swap to Furies if there aren't many frigates around.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#18 - 2011-12-26 20:09:01 UTC
I have an alt that only has missiles trained as a weapons system, granted they spend more time flying a Falcon or Blackbird, but at no point have I felt the need to have then stop and train a different weapon system. Not only are missiles nice but, the drake is a heck of a nice ship at a low price that does a myriad of tasks decently.
BearJews
Order of Extrodinary Gentlemen
#19 - 2011-12-27 17:19:27 UTC
Hawk, crow (kinda sticks compared to other interce), caracal, caracal navy issue, all the recons, drakes, nighhawks, ravens are all legit in pvp.

I wouldn't say as great as winmitar for pvp, but if you have some balls and a willingness to fight when other assume you will run, you can get some really nice kills.

phear da HAMMY drake.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#20 - 2011-12-27 20:39:34 UTC
The Amarr T2 missile ships are pretty good too. They have the advantage of not using their medslots for tank so you can fit webs and possibly painters. Typhoons with torps are great too.
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