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Announcement: Let Us Damn the Memory of the Whore of Sarum
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Sinti Vailatti
Angelis Exploration
#41 - 2016-12-12 22:20:00 UTC
Tamiroth wrote:
What a primitive nonsense. Even in the times of first prophets the Empire was very well capable of diplomacy, making alliances and spreading the word of God among heathens without resorting to mass enslavement. Reclaiming means bringing people to the light of God, and enslavement is also one of the means to do that, of course, but it's an ultimate one where everything else fails, and it's about as effective as using complex medical equipment as a blunt weapon in a melee fight..



I know a few trillion Matari that might disagree with you.




“Where must we go...we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves?”
Tamiroth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#42 - 2016-12-12 22:52:19 UTC
Sinti Vailatti wrote:
Tamiroth wrote:
What a primitive nonsense. Even in the times of first prophets the Empire was very well capable of diplomacy, making alliances and spreading the word of God among heathens without resorting to mass enslavement. Reclaiming means bringing people to the light of God, and enslavement is also one of the means to do that, of course, but it's an ultimate one where everything else fails, and it's about as effective as using complex medical equipment as a blunt weapon in a melee fight..



I know a few trillion Matari that might disagree with you.
They'd disagree that enslaving people is actually not the best way of religious conversion? I doubt that.
Jjaro Durandal
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#43 - 2016-12-12 23:47:37 UTC
Rook Moray wrote:
Jjaro Durandal wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Saya Ishikari wrote:
No. Really.

HOW are you creepier than I remember?

Napkins teaches creepy at the Caille University.

I resent that comment.




It's true though. He was a guest speaker at the "Menacing 101" mixer a couple of years back.




He obviously didn't do a very good job if he was never invited back.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#44 - 2016-12-13 03:43:12 UTC
Jjaro Durandal wrote:
He obviously didn't do a very good job if he was never invited back.


They felt he was too menacing.
Slayer Liberator
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#45 - 2016-12-13 03:55:55 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Jjaro Durandal wrote:
He obviously didn't do a very good job if he was never invited back.


They felt he was too menacing.

Maybe I should bring my commando dropsuit it's big and menacing
Arrendis
TK Corp
#46 - 2016-12-13 06:21:46 UTC
Slayer Liberator wrote:
Maybe I should bring my commando dropsuit it's big and menacing


Ok, I admit, I knew you drop-bears were pretty baller, but combat drops going commando? I mean, even I put on pants sometimes.





Mostly for staff meetings. They keep that conference room really kinda chilly. I think it's Asher's fault.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#47 - 2016-12-13 10:21:14 UTC
If you really want to make an impact, double dog damn her.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#48 - 2016-12-13 12:42:55 UTC
Tamiroth wrote:
Nauplius wrote:
When last comes to last, the basic purpose of an Amarr Emperor is Reclaim, and to Reclaim means but two things:

• Conquest
• Enslavement
What a primitive nonsense. Even in the times of first prophets the Empire was very well capable of diplomacy, making alliances and spreading the word of God among heathens without resorting to mass enslavement. Reclaiming means bringing people to the light of God, and enslavement is also one of the means to do that, of course, but it's an ultimate one where everything else fails, and it's about as effective as using complex medical equipment as a blunt weapon in a melee fight.

It's God who already judges the late Empress. But not you, heretic. So keep your foul mouth shut about things that are totally out of your league to even think about.

But then again, who I am talking to. You will burn, and so will your so-called "temple". Soon.


The Scriptures are drenched in the blood of God's enemies. During the battles of Satach’s Spite, entire canyons turned red with the blood of Udorian subhumans.

That is the meaning of Reclaiming. So is this:

"War is not hell, far from it. War is beautiful. War is divine."
- Grand Admiral Mekioth Sarum, excerpt from a commencement speech to Paladin graduates of the Imperial Academy. CE 23215
(too bad Jamyl didn't inherit this aspect of her relative's personality)
Slayer Liberator
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#49 - 2016-12-13 13:55:00 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Slayer Liberator wrote:
Maybe I should bring my commando dropsuit it's big and menacing


Ok, I admit, I knew you drop-bears were pretty baller, but combat drops going commando? I mean, even I put on pants sometimes.





Mostly for staff meetings. They keep that conference room really kinda chilly. I think it's Asher's fault.

not that kind of commando
Sinti Vailatti
Angelis Exploration
#50 - 2016-12-13 15:18:12 UTC
Tamiroth wrote:
Sinti Vailatti wrote:
Tamiroth wrote:
What a primitive nonsense. Even in the times of first prophets the Empire was very well capable of diplomacy, making alliances and spreading the word of God among heathens without resorting to mass enslavement. Reclaiming means bringing people to the light of God, and enslavement is also one of the means to do that, of course, but it's an ultimate one where everything else fails, and it's about as effective as using complex medical equipment as a blunt weapon in a melee fight..



I know a few trillion Matari that might disagree with you.
They'd disagree that enslaving people is actually not the best way of religious conversion? I doubt that.



They would disagree with you trying to whitewash history. Mass enslavement happened and there wasn't really any attempt at "diplomacy." And if slavery isn't the best way to convert people, why is the Empire the single biggest source of slaves in the Galaxy?

YOU are a slaver. Stop trying to play nice-nice and embrace what you are.

“Where must we go...we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves?”
Tamiroth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#51 - 2016-12-13 17:40:10 UTC
Sinti Vailatti wrote:
YOU are a slaver. Stop trying to play nice-nice and embrace what you are.
To keep it short: Nope.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#52 - 2016-12-13 21:07:39 UTC
Sinti Vailatti wrote:
Tamiroth wrote:
Sinti Vailatti wrote:
Tamiroth wrote:
What a primitive nonsense. Even in the times of first prophets the Empire was very well capable of diplomacy, making alliances and spreading the word of God among heathens without resorting to mass enslavement. Reclaiming means bringing people to the light of God, and enslavement is also one of the means to do that, of course, but it's an ultimate one where everything else fails, and it's about as effective as using complex medical equipment as a blunt weapon in a melee fight..



I know a few trillion Matari that might disagree with you.
They'd disagree that enslaving people is actually not the best way of religious conversion? I doubt that.



They would disagree with you trying to whitewash history. Mass enslavement happened and there wasn't really any attempt at "diplomacy." And if slavery isn't the best way to convert people, why is the Empire the single biggest source of slaves in the Galaxy?

YOU are a slaver. Stop trying to play nice-nice and embrace what you are.

So-- without agreeing fully with Ms. Tamiroth, Ms. Vailatti (I think the Pax Amarria is a kind of recent thing?) ...

The Amarrian whose warnings about the Amarr has most echoed your comments is the founder of your corporation, Sinjin Mokk-- an Angel, like yourself, who, like yourself, seems to object to the idea that there are other ways of being Amarr.

I've been among the Amarr for some time now. The things he said they would do to me, they haven't. This could always be because I haven't really tried to fight back or anything, but then again, I'm also still an Achur. If they're just trying the nice approach before giving up and tipping me into a cleansing pit (and I still don't know what a cleansing pit actually is), they're being pretty patient.

Or, maybe there's more than one way of being Amarr. After all, from what I've seen, it seems there might even be more than one way of being an Angel.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#53 - 2016-12-13 22:25:34 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Or, maybe there's more than one way of being Amarr. After all, from what I've seen, it seems there might even be more than one way of being an Angel.


Sure, there's the way that Vincent Pryce does it and the wrong way.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#54 - 2016-12-13 22:35:42 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Or, maybe there's more than one way of being Amarr. After all, from what I've seen, it seems there might even be more than one way of being an Angel.


Sure, there's the way that Vincent Pryce does it and the wrong way.


Uh-- how does he do it, exactly?

Since we're being particular like that.

Apparently.
Sinti Vailatti
Angelis Exploration
#55 - 2016-12-14 00:20:55 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

So-- without agreeing fully with Ms. Tamiroth, Ms. Vailatti (I think the Pax Amarria is a kind of recent thing?) ...

The Amarrian whose warnings about the Amarr has most echoed your comments is the founder of your corporation, Sinjin Mokk-- an Angel, like yourself, who, like yourself, seems to object to the idea that there are other ways of being Amarr.

I've been among the Amarr for some time now. The things he said they would do to me, they haven't. This could always be because I haven't really tried to fight back or anything, but then again, I'm also still an Achur. If they're just trying the nice approach before giving up and tipping me into a cleansing pit (and I still don't know what a cleansing pit actually is), they're being pretty patient.

Or, maybe there's more than one way of being Amarr. After all, from what I've seen, it seems there might even be more than one way of being an Angel.



Hi. Thanks for the reply.

So let's see...

Mokk and I have a lot of history, obviously. Some opinions we share. Some we don't. Going into specifics here would take too much time and is quite frankly, not for open conversation (drop me a private convo sometime though, we'll sip whiskey and talk about boys).

What I was saying...it's not about there being differences. It's about taking personal responsibility. All Amarr have some degree of accountability in promoting the system of slavery which has spanned centuries. To suggest that things weren't so bad or to claim some kind of innocence because one finds the practice distasteful in some way, or because someone ain't a Holder doesn't mean you have some degree of superiority, moral or otherwise. She's a Slaver. You're a Slaver. I'm a Slaver. We all support systems that engage freely in it. We all reap the benefits of our association. So why try to avoid it or downplay it? Especially among the Amarr where it's tied so deeply into the economy, culture and religion. That's why I said that Nauplius isn't entirely wrong. In the eyes of the galaxy, we're all not nice people. So why try to hide it behind a veneer of civility? Own that sh*t.

I don't know what Mokk thinks or thought they'd do to you. What would you be fighting back against? Conversion? That you're an Achur, I think you're pretty safe from the Pits. They're usually reserved for the real big conversion and apostasy issues. From what I remember, you'd almost have to be an Amarr who committed some truly heinous acts; but still have some kind of worth or shot at redemption. Nauplius might be a good candidate. But Bloody Omir wouldn't be. Him, they'd just kill.

Sure, not all Amarr are the same, just like no Angel is the same. You operated differently than Vincent. I operate differently from either of you. But we all support a particular system. All our lives and actions intersect. I think one of the viewpoints Mokk and I still share is real dislike for hypocrisy. If you need to engage in some bad sh*t, do it. Don't shy away from it, don't try to make excuses for it. Enemies won't believe you and your family will understand and love you despite it. So do it, own it and move on.

That's kinda my message to Tamiroth. Like, I feel as if her response to me should have been, "Shut your whore mouth and remember your place, Matari scum." I think the modern, kinder, gentler Amarr are a lot more disingenuous than the old-timers. Back in the day, if you got lippy with them, they'd verbally castigate you and then send a squadron of ships to ruin your day. Now? I dunno. They're too easy. Pirate

“Where must we go...we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves?”
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#56 - 2016-12-14 08:00:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Sinti Vailatti wrote:
It's about taking personal responsibility.

That's a line I'd expect to hear from Miz.

I'm getting a premonition we're not going to see eye to eye on this.

Quote:
All Amarr have some degree of accountability in promoting the system of slavery which has spanned centuries. To suggest that things weren't so bad or to claim some kind of innocence because one finds the practice distasteful in some way, or because someone ain't a Holder doesn't mean you have some degree of superiority, moral or otherwise. She's a Slaver. You're a Slaver. I'm a Slaver. We all support systems that engage freely in it. We all reap the benefits of our association. So why try to avoid it or downplay it? Especially among the Amarr where it's tied so deeply into the economy, culture and religion.

Because we might think there are other ways, and work towards them. Because four thousand years of slave-taking and forced conversion has hit a major speed bump in the last couple hundred, and the way forward on that road looks pretty rocky. Because the Amarr can pursue their Reclaiming by other means-- and probably with better success.

That's what the Societas is about, even.

Even if it's more or less true for now, it doesn't have to be.

Quote:
You operated differently than Vincent. I operate differently from either of you. But we all support a particular system. All our lives and actions intersect.


... um. It seems like you're a little familiar with me from somewhere, Ms. Vailatti, so I should maybe clarify that I'm probably not quite the person you might remember.

I'm a sabotaged clone. Personal memories: poof. I'm basically a ridiculously well-educated 2-year-old. My current subjective timeline's never been with the Cartel. Though occasionally someone tries to tell me the Amarr aren't very different.

Quote:
I think one of the viewpoints Mokk and I still share is real dislike for hypocrisy. If you need to engage in some bad sh*t, do it. Don't shy away from it, don't try to make excuses for it. Enemies won't believe you and your family will understand and love you despite it. So do it, own it and move on.


I kind of think hypocrisy is a pretty minor sin as such things go. Life's more complicated than people say. It would be hard to "say" things precisely enough that principle (as stated) and practice never part ways.

Of course, one can just try to be a simple and straightforward person. I might do a little of that; integrity's important to me. But "I'm a bad person and that's all there is to it" seems like a refusal to approach situations in a nuanced way.

Quote:
That's kinda my message to Tamiroth. Like, I feel as if her response to me should have been, "Shut your whore mouth and remember your place, Matari scum." I think the modern, kinder, gentler Amarr are a lot more disingenuous than the old-timers. Back in the day, if you got lippy with them, they'd verbally castigate you and then send a squadron of ships to ruin your day. Now? I dunno. They're too easy. Pirate

... I guess you're maybe a little accustomed to thinking of the Amarr as villains. That seems like a pity. I've mostly found them to just be what almost everyone seems to be: people.

The world's short on heroes and villains, and, that seems like a good thing to me. Taking on a hero's part seems to often lead to a failure to examine one's own actions with the care they deserve, so, that's troublesome. It seems like taking on a villain's role might lead to something similar, though.

Thoughtlessness, maybe. Carelessness. The willingness to leave lethal booby traps lying around in somebody else's home and not care who might come across them. Possibly even the homes of people who might express their displeasure with a thermobaric explosive satchel instead of an angry convo and the odd grumpy reminder if they themselves were slightly more willing to play the villain. Personally, though, even though I'm aware that my success at my work can often be measured in corpses generated, I'd rather be a little hypocritical and decide not to kill a few hundred people sometimes.

(Feel free to ask Sinjin what I'm talking about; I still haven't quite forgiven him.)
Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2016-12-14 09:12:35 UTC
Nauplius wrote:

The Scriptures are drenched in the blood of God's enemies. During the battles of Satach’s Spite, entire canyons turned red with the blood of Udorian subhumans.

That is the meaning of Reclaiming. So is this:

"War is not hell, far from it. War is beautiful. War is divine."
- Grand Admiral Mekioth Sarum, excerpt from a commencement speech to Paladin graduates of the Imperial Academy. CE 23215
(too bad Jamyl didn't inherit this aspect of her relative's personality)

Haven't you seen how Empress Jamyl (back then just Jamyl Sarum) had appeared over Mekhios like a white knight in shining armor with her Apostles and cut through hordes of raging heathens like a hot knife through butter? That was beautiful, that was divine. She did a miracle and saved everyone on the planet!

((

If you are a roleplayer, please join official CCP channels ingame for roleplayers and support roleplaying community:

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Tamiroth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#58 - 2016-12-14 09:16:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tamiroth
Sinti Vailatti wrote:
Like, I feel as if her response to me should have been, "Shut your whore mouth and remember your place, Matari scum."
That's just a litte more verbose way of sayng "Nope" that'd have a side effect of making a lot of brainwashed extremists happy. Why would I willingly turn into an enemy propaganda cliche?

So, nope.
Casserina Leshrac
Sanguine Illuminations
#59 - 2016-12-20 00:49:21 UTC
After so long it is good to see that the Faithful are still here.

They prattle about Divine concepts, and yet read what is given to them since the earliest days of school.

They are coerced to memorize such words as rote. Told that Scriptures hold the answer on how to live. Those same told the Faithful to follow their Emperor/Empress as they were Divinely chosen.

They are liken to lambs to slaughter. Blind, deaf and dumb.

The speak out against Jamyl Sarum, is to speak out against the office of Emperor. regards who sits on the throne now.

To spew out Scripture as justification shows that the herd grows and that true defenders of Amarr are the few.

The question remains. Do you follow the word of "God", or follow the "word of God" as written for sheep by sheep?

I have learned long ago that not all what is seems. Blink

We stand at the Abyss, drawing the Patterns of Fate - Casserina Leshrac, Savant, Sani Sabik.
Vlad Cetes
Original Sinners
Pandemic Legion
#60 - 2016-12-20 04:26:31 UTC
Casserina Leshrac -

Your presence on this forum is a welcome sight. We request a contact at a secure facility or communication channel.

(( ooc you also page Vlad Cettes which exists for game play reasons ))