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[December] Excavator Mining Drone yield rebalance

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nahui vsex
True Power Team
#321 - 2016-12-12 07:15:59 UTC
даунцы как обычно рукожопят а потом исправляют.
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#322 - 2016-12-12 16:51:07 UTC
nahui vsex wrote:
даунцы как обычно рукожопят а потом исправляют.



google translate says: "dauntsy rukozhopyat as usual and then corrected"
Grognard Commissar
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#323 - 2016-12-13 06:49:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Grognard Commissar
Doggy Dogwoofwoof wrote:
Again guys, CCP either A, Forgot Mining Rigs existed; Or B, changed the drone interfacing skill into a double damage bonus in their heads. They now have their stated yield.

nooo... they forgot that people need time to build sotiyos. there have likely been nowhere near as many soups/titans put in the over since asencion, as before.
rather than giving us time to drop the indy arrays, they just took a dump and saiid, here you go.

Maria Senseye wrote:
It's a game and it should be played as a game not like 2nd life for some of you. Indeed ... the Rorqual received some massive bonuses on mining drones, but that wasn't its scope after all! Somebody from CCP did a mistake, a huge one!

Rorqual description is:
Quote:
The Rorqual was conceived and designed by Outer Ring Excavations in response to a growing need for capital industry platforms with the ability to support and sustain large-scale mining operations in uninhabited areas of space.

To that end, the Rorqual's primary strength lies in its ability to grind raw ores into particles of smaller size than possible before, while still maintaining their distinctive molecular structure. This means the vessel is able to carry vast amounts of ore in compressed form.

Additionally, the Rorqual is able to fit a capital tractor beam unit, capable of pulling in cargo containers from far greater distances and at far greater speeds than smaller beams can. It also possesses a sizeable drone bay, jump drive capability and the capacity to fit a clone vat bay. This combination of elements makes the Rorqual the ideal nexus to build deep space mining operations around.

Due to its specialization towards industrial operations, its ship maintenance bay is able to accommodate only industrial ships, mining barges and their tech 2 variants.



So ... this ship should not mine by it's own, panic module was invented for a reason ... I would love to see large mining fleets (barges) with huge boosts provided by ongrid rorquals, that is the objective of this ship! To provide assistance (panic module), mining boosts (better than current ones) and ore storage/compression ... like an Orca in hisec. CCP took a step further like they always do and provide huge mining capabilities to lone rorquals, didn't worked that way ... nullsec alliances simply mine with these capital ships and they're hundreds of them! The effect ? Big hit into economy prices and ships.

Rorquals have the new PANIC module which renders an entire mining fleet invulnerable for several minutes, enough for the alliance buddies to bridge in and sustain alliance mining operations. This ship drones didn't helped real miners, it just forced ratters to go mining cause it's simple and more profitable than killing NPC's!


CCPlease do something to encourage player interraction at any level, mining is the core of EVE - it should be treated accordingly! Miners should have a boost, a real boost ... not like this stupid thing! Encourage fleets and player-to-player interraction!



that's the *old* description. rorquals work best with other rorqs, and a few barges, for the small rocks, and the mercoxit. better yield. barges are generally a pain to make isk with. I , myself, mine mins for my industry, and then sell the indy, rather than the ore. barges kinda... suck... mining should be able to compete with carrier ratting in some way....

I think the hit to the economy was more because ccp didn't allow for indy complexes to be established prior to nerfing SCAA's and CSAA's... basically, most people stopped putting in jobs for scaps (the biggest driver of mineral prices in nullsec) till they get sotiyos.
Steve Ronuken wrote:
One quick note for people

Quote:
Increasing the drop rates of the Elite Drone AI and Drone Coronary Unit rogue drone components


Should drop the price for the excavator drones. So you shouldn't have to worry about the 10 billion isk rorqs. Because that won't be the eventual price.

The elite drone AI's are currently selling at 12 million. Before the requirement was announced, they were pretty close to worthless. A higher drop rate should drop it.

the hull alone is 2.5 in minerals. meaning, it'll sell at 3+b. plus another 1b for bits, and another 1.5 for drones after patch
already more than 2x a fitted ratting niddy... but it will generate much less isk.

the reason for the decline in min prices, is mostly due to ccp nerfing SCAA's, without giving time for people to erect sotiyos... in other wors, certainly very, very few titans, and few supers, and not many capitals, have been put into build since ascension.
Thor
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#324 - 2016-12-13 23:43:38 UTC
CCP , for f***ing us over you should at least:

1) Allow the skill to reduce the Industrial Core cycle time. Say 1 minute per lvl.

2) Double or triple the speed of the excavator drones.
Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#325 - 2016-12-14 13:24:22 UTC
Dear CCP,

I don't know if it was intended or unintended side effect however due to the change in yield nullsec hidden belt asteroids will now always deplete within the first 2 minutes of the industry core cycle which means due to the limitations in drone speed we are now face with 3-4 minutes of terrible yield mining for each asteroid. Due to how Rorqual mining is done.

The normal procedure is to mine asteroids from a close as possible once the asteroid is deleted come out of industry core move re-enter industry core so far this worked out most of the time as asteroids usually deleted at 70-90% into the cycle of the industry core. Now however that is usually around 10-25% into the cycle which has a significant impact on actual yields per hour.

Before the change rorquals made roughly 450-500m/h mining +10% ore's now that is down to 250m/h. Which is a lot more than 32% the reality is a closer to a 50% income nerf.

A bit more drone speed would really go a long way to flatten that yield curve a bit.
Bongo0
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#326 - 2016-12-15 11:40:51 UTC
Rexxen Darkbrew wrote:
CCP are you nuts .. 32% nerf?? Have you seen the KB and the amount of Rorq losses..You said you wanted to add more risk/reward to mining. Right now were are at that...It is very high/risk reward currently.

Screw a 1/3 cut in possible income with a 10-15b ship that is stuck for 5 minutes in siege...

Rorq cannot safely mine 24/7 they have to strategically pick there window and sometimes sit out of siege quite a lot waiting on intel etc.. /watching movement of adversaries before resieging.

Might as well put them back to a off grid booster I'd rather have that then a 1/3 nerf in income...Risk no longer equals the reward,..

What a sad waste of people's time and isk, that trained for the Rorqual based on your own post of the new risk/reward and yield output system...


Rorq for sale!




I Couldn't agree more.

With the amount of risk involved in activating the industrial core, it needs to be worth it. With such a large reduction, for me it no longer feels like the risk vs reward is balanced. To introduce such a significant reduction after lots of people have spent considerable isk on the ships, fitting, drones, skills and injectors to try your new self proclaimed risk vs reward game play, feels like a slap in the face.

Prior to release you proclaimed maxed skilled and fit rorqual is the equivalent of 5 hulks. How can their mining yield come as a surprise to you? If a reduction is required do it in a measured and considered way, not in a knee jerk reaction. The killboards tell you all that is needed about Rorquals. There have never been so many deaths, content created.

I guess going back to carrier ratting to provide much need ISK maybe the answer. Anyone paying attention is unlikely to ever get caught, making similar isk now with much less ISK investment and risk, with no need to siege for 5 mins, stay aligned and hit warp at the first sniff of danger. Congratulation for making a ship the many people were excited about irrelevant, unexciting and consigned back to moth balls, or at the very least sat way off the belt applying boosts not in siege able to warp out at the first sniff of danger.

Since you like making changes, please consider reducing the siege time to 2 or 3 minutes (or introduce a skill to reduce it) to combat the negative effects on Risk vs Reward you have implemented, in what feels to be an over zealous manner.

Mining is boring as ****, it previously had low returns per hour compared to ratting, it needs to be worth doing. Please reevaluate. Thanks. o/
Gavro Faddon
Chaplygin Enterprises
#327 - 2016-12-15 19:15:45 UTC
There's no way this proposed Rorq can make it with my while to earn itself back twice before 100 hours of mining have passed. I have 0% chance of having intact for that amount of time. Off-grid boosting is the way of the dodo, and soon so will be the Rorq,

Never flying a Rorq again. I'll stay Alpha and do Wh sites in a 1.5M probe or a 5M Gas-venture. Much more fun, better profit percentage, and gives a decent amount of adrenaline vs reward.
Plus I don't have to rely on sheer luck to stay alive, just sharp wits.

Oh darn: now they're gonna nerf the T1 scanning frigs and the venture too.....
Cade Windstalker
#328 - 2016-12-15 21:13:37 UTC
Bongo0 wrote:
Rexxen Darkbrew wrote:
CCP are you nuts .. 32% nerf?? Have you seen the KB and the amount of Rorq losses..You said you wanted to add more risk/reward to mining. Right now were are at that...It is very high/risk reward currently.

Screw a 1/3 cut in possible income with a 10-15b ship that is stuck for 5 minutes in siege...

Rorq cannot safely mine 24/7 they have to strategically pick there window and sometimes sit out of siege quite a lot waiting on intel etc.. /watching movement of adversaries before resieging.

Might as well put them back to a off grid booster I'd rather have that then a 1/3 nerf in income...Risk no longer equals the reward,..

What a sad waste of people's time and isk, that trained for the Rorqual based on your own post of the new risk/reward and yield output system...


Rorq for sale!




I Couldn't agree more.

With the amount of risk involved in activating the industrial core, it needs to be worth it. With such a large reduction, for me it no longer feels like the risk vs reward is balanced. To introduce such a significant reduction after lots of people have spent considerable isk on the ships, fitting, drones, skills and injectors to try your new self proclaimed risk vs reward game play, feels like a slap in the face.

Prior to release you proclaimed maxed skilled and fit rorqual is the equivalent of 5 hulks. How can their mining yield come as a surprise to you? If a reduction is required do it in a measured and considered way, not in a knee jerk reaction. The killboards tell you all that is needed about Rorquals. There have never been so many deaths, content created.

I guess going back to carrier ratting to provide much need ISK maybe the answer. Anyone paying attention is unlikely to ever get caught, making similar isk now with much less ISK investment and risk, with no need to siege for 5 mins, stay aligned and hit warp at the first sniff of danger. Congratulation for making a ship the many people were excited about irrelevant, unexciting and consigned back to moth balls, or at the very least sat way off the belt applying boosts not in siege able to warp out at the first sniff of danger.

Since you like making changes, please consider reducing the siege time to 2 or 3 minutes (or introduce a skill to reduce it) to combat the negative effects on Risk vs Reward you have implemented, in what feels to be an over zealous manner.

Mining is boring as ****, it previously had low returns per hour compared to ratting, it needs to be worth doing. Please reevaluate. Thanks. o/


I think the trick here is CCP can see the number of Rorquals that haven't been touched... and all of the ore they're mining.
Hans Bauer
Blue Oyster Limited
#329 - 2016-12-15 21:50:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Bauer
The nerf is closer to 45% Before it with my skills I could mine 300 mil isk per hour worth of ore after the patch it dropped to about 150-160 mil per hour !
The only players that hurts is the people who don't own more than 1-2 accounts and the big miners are still making a killing. CCP never showed us any stats before they correct the values so people would have nothing to compare it to !

CCP Fozzie can we actually see any stats regarding the rorqual mining before the 32% downgrade and after the downgrade ?
Thayla Caldari
Resilience.
The Initiative.
#330 - 2016-12-15 22:59:51 UTC
Bongo0 wrote:

Since you like making changes, please consider reducing the siege time to 2 or 3 minutes (or introduce a skill to reduce it) to combat the negative effects on Risk vs Reward you have implemented, in what feels to be an over zealous manner.

Mining is boring as ****, it previously had low returns per hour compared to ratting, it needs to be worth doing. Please reevaluate. Thanks. o/


Yes, I think the siege time is the risk and in this case risk vs reward really is the factor.

Let's say for math's sake you put 10 Rorquals on the board. Day of launch that was 100b isk on the field, for what is now 1.5b per hour. That's 2x better than a 10 man Hulk fleet (pre patch) which costs 3b if you went with bling.

The Rorquals also suffer from quick depletion of roids and having to warp/move around (which requires the siege cycle to finish). Alternatively they can wait for the slow drones.
Sgt Zora
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#331 - 2016-12-17 12:43:53 UTC
This change won't fix the bad design decisions that were made for the Rorqual in the first place.

The Rorqual has become binary when it comes to risk. If you are in one of the big powerblocs the risk is zero. You hang out in a cyno jammed system with your super buddies. Coincidently that is what the powerblocs rationally set up as an isk farm which is now flooding the market and what gave you your 32% "oh ****" nerf moment.

For everybody else the risk essentially became infinite. The defense capability is meaningless if you can't counter escalate. This is why you won't see a single deployed Rorqual in Providence or anywhere else really, because loosing it is inevitable and with that siege mechanic it doesn't even come down to decision making.

The 32% nerf won't fix the issue. The Rorqual has become an AFK money making machine for indy people in power blocs. And you can't compare it to carriers, because involvement is minimal and it scales basically infinite. Personally i expect the mineral market to plummet massively even further.

The cries here are basically about the fact that it takes 32% longer to get AFK rich. Risk is meaningless if you are in one of those systems. Investment is meaningless because that is a one time cost.
Ncc 1709
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#332 - 2016-12-19 00:26:40 UTC
the amount of people moaning about my income has gone from 500 to 250m... you do realise that since rorquals were introduced, mineral value has also droped by 40%.
so take that 500m and knock the 40% off before you try comparing it...

so now your comparing 375m with 250m.


and i really wouldnt keep complaining. Rorquals are STILL yielding higher than what ccp origionaly planned for them. just use them properly.

and if your poping anomoly roids in 2 mins, you may wanna try spreading your rorqs to hit diffrent roids...
Hans Bauer
Blue Oyster Limited
#333 - 2016-12-19 13:24:05 UTC
And the price of the excavator drones Is back at what it was before the nerf :(
Alyx Shepard
Tranquility Tavern
Pandemic Horde
#334 - 2016-12-19 17:52:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Alyx Shepard
The only thing i would realy complain about is the fact that even tho CCP said they will increase the Drop rate of the Elite Drone ai chips, nothing realy changed. Its like putting 4 more Sand corns into an Hourglas. This increase was close to meaningless, the drop in Price for the Chips was only due to Market games. So they are still as expensive as **** which make the whole rorq mining thing useless for almost everyone in null sec except those in the powerblocs mentioned from the dudes before me.


So YEAH, CCP, plz do at least INCREASE the drop rate of those ******* CHIPS the same you lowerd the yield, to keep it easy for you with numbers, stay with the 32% ;-)
Cade Windstalker
#335 - 2016-12-20 17:10:08 UTC
Alyx Shepard wrote:
The only thing i would realy complain about is the fact that even tho CCP said they will increase the Drop rate of the Elite Drone ai chips, nothing realy changed. Its like putting 4 more Sand corns into an Hourglas. This increase was close to meaningless, the drop in Price for the Chips was only due to Market games. So they are still as expensive as **** which make the whole rorq mining thing useless for almost everyone in null sec except those in the powerblocs mentioned from the dudes before me.


So YEAH, CCP, plz do at least INCREASE the drop rate of those ******* CHIPS the same you lowerd the yield, to keep it easy for you with numbers, stay with the 32% ;-)


Even if they increased the drop rate by 100% you wouldn't see an immediate drop in price of the drones because it will take a while for that increase in supply to translate into a drop in price of the chips and thus the drones.
Alyx Shepard
Tranquility Tavern
Pandemic Horde
#336 - 2016-12-20 17:27:29 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
Alyx Shepard wrote:
The only thing i would realy complain about is the fact that even tho CCP said they will increase the Drop rate of the Elite Drone ai chips, nothing realy changed. Its like putting 4 more Sand corns into an Hourglas. This increase was close to meaningless, the drop in Price for the Chips was only due to Market games. So they are still as expensive as **** which make the whole rorq mining thing useless for almost everyone in null sec except those in the powerblocs mentioned from the dudes before me.


So YEAH, CCP, plz do at least INCREASE the drop rate of those ******* CHIPS the same you lowerd the yield, to keep it easy for you with numbers, stay with the 32% ;-)


Even if they increased the drop rate by 100% you wouldn't see an immediate drop in price of the drones because it will take a while for that increase in supply to translate into a drop in price of the chips and thus the drones.



Yeah, maybe. I didnt wanted a immeditate drop of the price, i wanted a real increase of the drop rate of those chips. But only getting 3 more out of a 10/10 DED is only a mere joke. NOT a real increase of the droprate.....
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#337 - 2016-12-20 22:24:12 UTC
I'll voice my opinion on the drones again, the build requirements are way too heavily dependent on the AI chips. Even before the market games began (well before they were released) the price was 3/4 - 2/3 dependent on the AI chips. You could double or triple the requirement of the other materials and it would barely be noticeable in comparison.

I really don't think a full set of 5 should more or as much as the rorqual hull. It'd be a different story if these drones followed the same pattern as T1/T2/Faction/augmented prices and effectiveness. But right now it's wholly dependent on the one drone.
Grognard Commissar
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#338 - 2016-12-21 19:09:14 UTC
Sgt Zora wrote:
This change won't fix the bad design decisions that were made for the Rorqual in the first place.

The Rorqual has become binary when it comes to risk. If you are in one of the big powerblocs the risk is zero. You hang out in a cyno jammed system with your super buddies. Coincidently that is what the powerblocs rationally set up as an isk farm which is now flooding the market and what gave you your 32% "oh ****" nerf moment.

For everybody else the risk essentially became infinite. The defense capability is meaningless if you can't counter escalate. This is why you won't see a single deployed Rorqual in Providence or anywhere else really, because loosing it is inevitable and with that siege mechanic it doesn't even come down to decision making.

The 32% nerf won't fix the issue. The Rorqual has become an AFK money making machine for indy people in power blocs. And you can't compare it to carriers, because involvement is minimal and it scales basically infinite. Personally i expect the mineral market to plummet massively even further.

The cries here are basically about the fact that it takes 32% longer to get AFK rich. Risk is meaningless if you are in one of those systems. Investment is meaningless because that is a one time cost.


not at all. you need to deal with rats, or else they kill your drones. also, i'm sure there are people with rorqs in provi. it's not an isk printer. thae isk printers are the ratters. the isk from minerals comes from other rplayers.
Cptcarter
State War Academy
Caldari State
#339 - 2016-12-27 01:19:33 UTC
Ncc 1709 wrote:
the amount of people moaning about my income has gone from 500 to 250m... you do realise that since rorquals were introduced, mineral value has also droped by 40%.
so take that 500m and knock the 40% off before you try comparing it...

so now your comparing 375m with 250m.


and i really wouldnt keep complaining. Rorquals are STILL yielding higher than what ccp origionaly planned for them. just use them properly.

and if your poping anomoly roids in 2 mins, you may wanna try spreading your rorqs to hit diffrent roids...



LOL WTF are you talking about...40% drop in mineral value..are you complete void of thought or just want to talk **** and troll. If prices of minerals droped 40% then everyone in eve but you are complete morons....
Cade Windstalker
#340 - 2016-12-27 22:16:25 UTC
Alyx Shepard wrote:
Yeah, maybe. I didnt wanted a immeditate drop of the price, i wanted a real increase of the drop rate of those chips. But only getting 3 more out of a 10/10 DED is only a mere joke. NOT a real increase of the droprate.....


First off, one site isn't a statistically significant sample size unless the drops are fixed (which, by my understanding, they're not) and second you may be underestimating the effect that an increase in drops per site can have spread over the entire game.

Also it would be helpful, for context, if you included what you feel the base rate was, because "three more" doesn't really add much here. I could tell you that the widget factory made three more flooms last year, and give you just as much information about the supply of AI chips as you've given me here...