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its so easy, all you need are neuting bumping naglfars and you can easily kill these untacklable titans

oh wait its 2016 not 2006

its so easy, all you need are neuting bumping supercarriers and relying on the invincible rorqual to have forgotten his cap boosters

Indeed, they are. I wish I had been frap'ing my screen during that drop, because you would be able to see that running 5 HWDs and 3 links, having to spank the capital MWD to stop from getting flung out by dreads spawning and insta-sieging inside me, that capacitor management was absolutely key and a struggle to maintain. At several points I had to stop running all my HWDs and run only a few in order to maintain just a sliver of cap to keep the links on. Only a scant few heavy neuts would have caused me real problems in terms of keeping adequate tackle... certainly enough for a super or titan to escape.

But no, those heavy neuts didn't happen - because according to you guys the high slots on a super are home to only 3 modules and never any others. I'm both surprised and not surprised that I'm having to explain this - but much like the GSF member near the end of Jay's video who said "lol we rekt them", there seems to be a distinct lack of clue as to what's really going on.



Then don't cry when they start hitting the floor in non-ratting situations?

The other supers which died were marginally better fitted for suddenly PVP, however judging from the contents of their cargo and fleet hangars, one sees that The Goon is still very much behind the curve on using them usefully in combat overall. Much like the debate within GSF to stay shield or go armor, some myopic decisions have been made to ensure that their super pilots are survivable or, at least, ready to be so.

No, no it's really not that much ISK considering the build up, maintenance, and risks.

Hi-Sec Incursions, 110-150 per hour:
Effectively zero risk
Effectively not depletable
Require minimal investment
Cannot be taken away from the player
Require no active defense
Creates no player content
Does not require Sov

Rorqual Mining, 250-300 per hour (your new estimate):
Very Risky
Very depletable, mineral markets can crash, belts can dry up
Requires huge individual investment
Can be interrupted by other players
Requires active defense
Creates massive amounts of player content
Require Sov


CCP has a decade+ of player behavior patterns. Time and time again we have seen that the vast majority of people will hedge their betting down to almost nothing and take the secure income every time. They need to change this, and some avenues suggest some in CCP get it - coercing players into taking risks, thus enriching New Eden, requires that these risks be worth taking.

Seems like you shouldn't have been running the links, then, and fit for more cap, while bringing the links on dedicated (or at least less cap hungry) auxiliary rorquals.

None of this changes the fact that jump hictors are overpowered and need to be nerfed. I'll "cry" less about losing supers when you and yours stop crying about losing your overpowered toys.

but hey tell me more about running unbonused armor links for a ship with 84,000 EHP in armor

The new Rorq's have been nuking mineral prices in Jita 4-4 since launch. t1 Hull prices are down something like 20%. Mineral prices drop but hull prices stick: margins on hulls have ballooned to 1-2mil a slot/hr even as the price declines daily.

IDK what to tell you a nerf to yield is probably better then just waiting for the inevitable price collapse.

Some things that could be done to mitigate the awful quality of this thread:

* Briefly explain the reasoning behind the rorqual yield reduction. If the reason is indeed that the capital drone mining rigs weren't taken into account, then I think most people will be okay with that. We may rib you a little for forgetting it, but it's at least consistent and unbiased. That counts for a lot.

* Make a statement about PANIC and electronic warfare. I and others realize that the December patch is on Tuesday, and between that and the imminent holiday season, it's highly unlikely that any change would actually occur until 2017. That being said, a statement affirming the intent to nerf the "jump hictor" would do a lot to quell the bad reactions going on.

Obviously, I, as well as my confederates in Goonswarm Federation, would prefer to have mega-yield crok-sucking Rorquals, but if logic and reasoning are used to explain things, we would have little remaining ground to protest.

Maybe start with a 15% reduction in Ore Mined and a 100% boost to Excavator Drone Speed.
I think that would be a much better start that isn't over kill.
Or send everyone with a Rorq 10 Skill Extractors so we can get our Skill Points back.

A question: Is the amount mined with what is now the best mining ship in the game really worth the nerf?

The drones are slow as **** even with 3 drone nav mods to move them along.

The cost of the Rorq, all the mods and rigs and the new mining drones themselves are a fortune. 10 billion for something very cheap and closer to 14 with faction, dead space, or other wise fitted.

We have spent as a collective group who have spent massive isk to inject skills or plex characters that were otter wise potentially inactive.

We have spent months or longer working our back sides off in one form or another to ensure we have a ship or a few and have enough isk to buy the expected expensive new drones.

The Rorq is still only doing what was initially intended to mine: 5 hulks worth of ore since they are so bloody slow no matter what you do.

So, with this said; it is us as those who decide to mine unprotected no matter what you do you are a exceptionally expensive target with far less in the the way of defense compared to other capitals if you want to garner a decent yield for your time.

Personally, I think you should TOTALLY reconsider any nerf as it is not OUR faults that those who have 1/2 a brain put the ship to good use.........SO, what is the complaint? we use the ship as intended? boo hoo.

I find this to be a very unsatisfactory way of handling a situation that has many months to trouble shoot.

Who finds a 32% nerf to be exceptionally excessive? I know I do.

Perhaps it is time to actually consider how your paying members feel before taking a sledge hammer to them.

We are very adaptable as players and as people in general but we all have feelings and are a bit weary being brutalized as we have been over the last couple of years.

If this was a areal problem we would bring it to your attention and then consideration of addressing this would be appropriate.

This message is far less salty than the last and I have taken the time to send a message with more clarity and thought compared to the last.

For me to take this much time as well as so many others has to have some value worth considering.

Now then, it seems the ball is in your court. I do hope your final decision is as thoughtful and well considered for what you decide for in the end the question will be.....Do you have happy players or ones that are yet again disgruntled and disgusted in our game play. What and how you decide is important. Show us how important we are to you.

This statement is funny, because you and yours are shooting more rats per member on a given day these days than your meatshield.