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Logic behind skill category sorting in character sheet

Author
Althalus Stenory
Flying Blacksmiths
#1 - 2016-12-05 13:05:43 UTC
Hello,

As I didn't find this information, do someone know how is sorted the skill categories in the character sheet, as it's not alphabetical ? Because so far, the only logic I found is "Let's shuffle it and display it as is", and it takes ages to find the skill category you want...

Any idea / advice ?

@CCP: can't you sort it like before ?

EsiPy - Python 2.7 / 3.3+ Swagger Client based on pyswagger for ESI

Chan'aar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2016-12-05 13:40:01 UTC
I'm sure there is a reason for the order the skill groups are displayed. Its just that it does not make sense to puny mortals like us.

CCP Logic. What?
Althalus Stenory
Flying Blacksmiths
#3 - 2016-12-05 13:42:41 UTC
Ahah, yeah, it was my first thought too ^^

Currently it's really a PITA to find the skill category you want, since there are "no orders" ...

But yes, CCP Logic. Sadly.

EsiPy - Python 2.7 / 3.3+ Swagger Client based on pyswagger for ESI

Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#4 - 2016-12-05 13:51:41 UTC
+1 for skill order recommendation. The groups, and the skills inside the groups. Some kind of obvious order please.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Memphis Baas
#5 - 2016-12-05 13:53:43 UTC
It's CCP's version of the way we categorize skills:

Ship skills
Weapon skills
Support skills
Misc skills.

Except they have Ships, Support, Weapons, Ewar/Probing, Industry, Misc.

It's actually easier to use if you click the ^ buttons and minimize your mug shot and the skill categories, because then there's just one row of icons and once you get used to them it's relatively simple.
mkint
#6 - 2016-12-05 14:11:38 UTC  |  Edited by: mkint
sometimes bad things are just bad. So glad I'm a maxed out alpha and never have to even open it. It's an incentive to NOT sub, then I'd have to learn the char sheet.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#7 - 2016-12-05 19:47:00 UTC
I also suspect it's a priority list of how many people train skills in each section, with the most common sections at the start to some extent.
It's also not very hard to use mkint. By not very hard I mean 'dead easy'. You just sometimes have to spend 10 seconds reading section headers.
Salvos Rhoska
#8 - 2016-12-05 20:08:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
I dont get the complaints.

Maybe Im rainman autistic and dont know it, but Ive found the new skill screen and arrangement of skill groups much more rational/logical than before.
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#9 - 2016-12-06 00:27:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Algarion Getz
Althalus Stenory wrote:
Hello,

As I didn't find this information, do someone know how is sorted the skill categories in the character sheet, as it's not alphabetical ? Because so far, the only logic I found is "Let's shuffle it and display it as is", and it takes ages to find the skill category you want...

Any idea / advice ?

@CCP: can't you sort it like before ?

Collapse the skill categories. The icons are pretty good. I find a category faster when i see only the icons.

I have no idea though why the skill categories are not listed alphabetically. What does CCP's character sheet design document (=a detailed description of an UI) say for the category list? Sort by: ???
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2016-12-06 04:46:44 UTC
I find it confusing, really. But to be fair, I never found anything by category before either. I just use the search box, problem solved. No idea why the sheet has to be so huge, though. Screen estate comes at a premium in Eve. I don't think they can afford to waste so much space with fancy graphics and lots of gaps.
Dahlia Samar
Maniacal Miners INC
Cosmic Maniacs
#11 - 2016-12-06 06:02:49 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
I dont get the complaints.

Maybe Im rainman autistic and dont know it, but Ive found the new skill screen and arrangement of skill groups much more rational/logical than before.


Agreed

though I'm still holding my breath on them letting us split the skill queue and known skills window, having two vertical lists stacked on top of each other is just bad design
Deckel
Island Paradise
#12 - 2016-12-06 06:16:35 UTC
For consistency, skills need to be sorted just like they are in the market, otherwise things just don't make sense. Use a single system.
(and plz do not reorganize the market tabs just to make them consistent with the character sheet)
eveyn
#13 - 2016-12-06 06:28:03 UTC
I find it jarring to navigate, IMO. I'm not trying to compare it to what was before, just I find the current design to not be very intuitive to me. Skill categories, skills, and training queue are all uniquely designed elements that at first glance show no connection to each other. I had to click around for a few minutes to realize that there was actually a connection between them all how that connection played out. Honestly though, I looked because I already know there is a hierarchy connection based on my own experience in EvE. I wonder what a new user's experience would be like without that knowledge? The three panels shared no visual styles that would relate them at first glance. Add to that the data pop-ups for each skill category and skill type, I constantly found myself reaching for the upper right "x" button to close them. It seems design real estate would better be served by at least having a centralized frame for specs and data, instead of forcing the eye to literally jump a few hundred pixels on every mouse-over event. Especially considering the unused space, when the frame is maximized.

I honestly don't get it. From a designer's perspective, it seems arbitrary to mix things up this way. Redesign for the sake of redesign rather than for user intuition and ease of navigation. Of course much of the EvE interface seems completely disconnected from other elements, from my experience. It's like programmers are designing UI without design principles and philosophy, and each developer is an island.

Iderno. I'm just a passive player at best. I'm only posting on this topic because I dig me some graphic and UI design logic. This made me twitch a bit.

I'm only speaking from a visual design perspective. I'm sure there are many that find this more appealing now. A few have posted already, so I'm not trying to take away from that. It just seems ..odd to me. On several levels. Maybe it will grow on me?

<3<3<3
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#14 - 2016-12-06 10:07:27 UTC
I can live with it, but I have gone through the nightmare that some MMORPG character sheets are...
Galaxy Duck
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#15 - 2016-12-06 16:31:12 UTC
I too have found it less functional and somewhat of a pain.
Pix Severus
Empty You
#16 - 2016-12-06 16:55:32 UTC
CCP have done some great work on the UI in recent years, however I believe the changes to the character sheet and skill training are a case of form over function.

I find it clunky and unintuitive, but maybe my opinion will change once I'm more used to it.

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide

Memphis Baas
#17 - 2016-12-06 18:21:02 UTC
I'm getting used to the interface and the icons, have about half of them memorized.

So, of course, what's going to happen is, they'll finally listen to all our complaints and change it again, just as we finally get used to it.
Althalus Stenory
Flying Blacksmiths
#18 - 2016-12-06 19:32:57 UTC
Yeah, I use icons too, as it's easier to find what I want... I don't actually complain about the UI (I'm fine with it, just not used to it yet), but I was more wondering if I were the only one that had "issues" with the skill categories orders.

@Memphis Baas : just noticed that, looks like " ship -> ship buff (engi/nav) -> tank -> dps -> ewar -> rig -> social -> industry -> structure"

it's not that stupid after all :p Just need to get used to now...

EsiPy - Python 2.7 / 3.3+ Swagger Client based on pyswagger for ESI

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-12-06 19:54:34 UTC
Personally I just disable my brain when i meet Eve interface. Just mindlessly search for what i need.

This helps a lot. Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Maximus Bullet
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2016-12-06 20:59:59 UTC
Doesn't take long to learn...
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