These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

MAKE EVE GREAT AGAIN!
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Salvos Rhoska
#61 - 2016-12-19 08:13:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Okidoki.

I "voted" EVE for:
-Best MMO 2016
-Best Sandbox 2016
-Best F2P 2016
-Best Expansion 2016
-Valkyrie for Best New Game 2016, cos Im a CCP fanboi.

This cost me atleast 50 precious mouse clicks (including captcha) instead of using them in EVE to make iskies...

Yes, I am a bitter man...
But I always deliver.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Railyn Quisqueya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2016-12-21 03:13:51 UTC
I'm sure this will hurt some feelings, but what does it matter if Eve ranks last or first, other that to say "my peepee is bigger than yours"? Eve players pride themselves in driving away the masses and claiming this game isn't for everyone. So, is it really that terrible if the polls agree with this sentiment?
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#63 - 2016-12-21 03:25:04 UTC
Railyn Quisqueya wrote:
I'm sure this will hurt some feelings, but what does it matter if Eve ranks last or first, other that to say "my peepee is bigger than yours"? Eve players pride themselves in driving away the masses and claiming this game isn't for everyone. So, is it really that terrible if the polls agree with this sentiment?

If it's the Best MMO and also only for the smartest and most elite gamers, them perhaps as far as gamers go, we sit above other nerds and neck beards and somewhat approach a state that other people call normal.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Salvos Rhoska
#64 - 2016-12-21 05:12:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
somewhat approach a state that other people call normal.

Not even close.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Pix Severus
Empty You
#65 - 2016-12-21 05:22:06 UTC
A game reviewer once said:

"EVE is for the nerds who are to nerds, what nerds are to normal people."

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
#66 - 2016-12-21 15:05:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ion Kirst
Railyn Quisqueya wrote:
I'm sure this will hurt some feelings, but what does it matter if Eve ranks last or first, other that to say "my peepee is bigger than yours"? Eve players pride themselves in driving away the masses and claiming this game isn't for everyone. So, is it really that terrible if the polls agree with this sentiment?


I'm sorry to hurt your feelings, but this has nothing to do with your peepee.


And with the apathy of voting for EVE, with 9 days to go, this is a lost cause. Maybe it was from the start. More people have looked at these posts then those who have voted.

I think EVE has over 500,000 players(?), and I've seen over 46,000 players on-line, but there are only 1,700 votes for EVE. I don't know how to reach out to the masses anyway.

Maybe it's time to take the campaign banners down.

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2016-12-21 15:22:22 UTC
Railyn Quisqueya wrote:
I'm sure this will hurt some feelings, but what does it matter if Eve ranks last or first, other that to say "my peepee is bigger than yours"? Eve players pride themselves in driving away the masses and claiming this game isn't for everyone. So, is it really that terrible if the polls agree with this sentiment?


If the polls are a popularity contest, then no.

If the polls are meant to reflect the quality of games, then yes, it is terrible, because popularity =/= quality. As much is evident by how many fans Justin Beiber has. Most people don't know what a quality gaming experience is, which is why EA's candy-making business is still such an enormous one.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Salvos Rhoska
#68 - 2016-12-21 15:26:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Railyn Quisqueya wrote:
I'm sure this will hurt some feelings, but what does it matter if Eve ranks last or first, other that to say "my peepee is bigger than yours"? Eve players pride themselves in driving away the masses and claiming this game isn't for everyone. So, is it really that terrible if the polls agree with this sentiment?


1) Nobody here drives anyone away, or wants to. Quite the contrary.
2) All EVE players, new and old, are "one of us".
3) Until they aren't.
4) Until they are again, weeks/months/years, later.
5) EVE players are proud of the opportunity and community this game offers to everyone.
6) These polls are a tedious annual occurrence across dozens of sites trying to get a leg up on other such sites.
7) My peepee is YUUUUUGE.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Railyn Quisqueya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2016-12-21 15:56:43 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
If the polls are a popularity contest, then no.

If the polls are meant to reflect the quality of games, then yes, it is terrible, because popularity =/= quality. As much is evident by how many fans Justin Beiber has. Most people don't know what a quality gaming experience is, which is why EA's candy-making business is still such an enormous one.


I have to disagree with you on this. In my opinion it is a popularity contest. There is, as far as I can tell, no qualitative assessment being made; never mind "quality" hasn't even been defined (I'll get to this in a minute). It's just people encouraging people to out-vote other games in, ironically enough, the same way I'd expect a group of teenage girls to vote for Justin Bieber as best artist of the year. And Remiel, I don't mean this as an insult, though I admit it will come across that way. Most importantly, I'm trying to drive a point across.

Now on to "Quality". What quality characteristics exactly are being measured? Because what would qualify Eve to you as a high quality game may not necessarily qualify it for someone else. For example, saying Eve is "high quality" because its player base is the most friendly, mature, and kind of any other game out there is a subjective statement. In fact, I personally wouldn't expect Eve to rank high in this area. Now, with that said there are areas that are less grey, especially when we deal with hardware and software technology.

But even with this said, there really is no qualitative assessment being made here. As far as I can tell, it's been set up to be driven by the popular vote. Vote, vote, and vote. The game with the most votes (i.e. the popular vote) wins.

Which brings me to my next point: Win what exactly anyway? That Eve is crowned best game by the masses? When this game really isn't for the masses? It just seems a bit oxymoronic (<== I think I made this word up) to expect Eve to be the best (again, determined by popular vote) when it really isn't that great among the gaming population.
Salvos Rhoska
#70 - 2016-12-21 16:01:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Railyn Quisqueya wrote:
I have to disagree with you on this

You are agreeing with him.
Everything in your post agrees with him.
You have critically misread/misunderstood what he said.

Proof positive:
-I didnt even look at the other options.
-I voted EVE, by rote, wherever I saw it.

I behaved exactly like you, and Remiel, predicted,
There is no validity in these polls for claiming to declare a "best" of anything.

Its just a marketing mechanism for gaming sites to accrue page hits, advertising income and compete with other gaming sites for the "validity" of the accolades they offer.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Railyn Quisqueya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2016-12-21 16:05:29 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Railyn Quisqueya wrote:
I'm sure this will hurt some feelings, but what does it matter if Eve ranks last or first, other that to say "my peepee is bigger than yours"? Eve players pride themselves in driving away the masses and claiming this game isn't for everyone. So, is it really that terrible if the polls agree with this sentiment?


1) Nobody here drives anyone away, or wants to. Quite the contrary.
2) All EVE players, new and old, are "one of us".
3) Until they aren't.
4) Until they are again, weeks/months/years, later.
5) EVE players are proud of the opportunity and community this game offers to everyone.
6) These polls are a tedious annual occurrence across dozens of sites trying to get a leg up on other such sites.
7) My peepee is YUUUUUGE.


I don't know, my friend. I strongly disagree with (1) and (2). I've seen many player interactions and comments expressing joy in leading players out to the door (regardless of reasons... this is a different topic all together). And I've played this game long enough to have seen wars of "us vs them" within the Eve community. "If you don't play like me you are not one of us". It's a common and prevalent theme here.

Oh, and congratulations on your huge peepee. I hope it's workin' out for ya Pirate.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2016-12-21 16:09:25 UTC
Railyn Quisqueya wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
If the polls are a popularity contest, then no.

If the polls are meant to reflect the quality of games, then yes, it is terrible, because popularity =/= quality. As much is evident by how many fans Justin Beiber has. Most people don't know what a quality gaming experience is, which is why EA's candy-making business is still such an enormous one.


I have to disagree with you on this. In my opinion it is a popularity contest. There is, as far as I can tell, no qualitative assessment being made; never mind "quality" hasn't even been defined (I'll get to this in a minute). It's just people encouraging people to out-vote other games in, ironically enough, the same way I'd expect a group of teenage girls to vote for Justin Bieber as best artist of the year. And Remiel, I don't mean this as an insult, though I admit it will come across that way. Most importantly, I'm trying to drive a point across.

Now on to "Quality". What quality characteristics exactly are being measured? Because what would qualify Eve to you as a high quality game may not necessarily qualify it for someone else. For example, saying Eve is "high quality" because its player base is the most friendly, mature, and kind of any other game out there is a subjective statement. In fact, I personally wouldn't expect Eve to rank high in this area. Now, with that said there are areas that are less grey, especially when we deal with hardware and software technology.

But even with this said, there really is no qualitative assessment being made here. As far as I can tell, it's been set up to be driven by the popular vote. Vote, vote, and vote. The game with the most votes (i.e. the popular vote) wins.

Which brings me to my next point: Win what exactly anyway? That Eve is crowned best game by the masses? When this game really isn't for the masses? It just seems a bit oxymoronic (<== I think I made this word up) to expect Eve to be the best (again, determined by popular vote) when it really isn't that great among the gaming population.


What part of "If the polls are a popularity contest, then no" did you struggle with exactly?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Railyn Quisqueya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2016-12-21 16:11:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Railyn Quisqueya
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Railyn Quisqueya wrote:
I have to disagree with you on this

You are agreeing with him.
Everything in your post agrees with him.
You have critically misread/misunderstood what he said.

Proof positive:
-I didnt even look at the other options.
-I voted EVE, by rote, wherever I saw it.

I behaved exactly like you, and Remiel, predicted,
There is no validity in these polls for claiming to declare a "best" of anything.

Its just a marketing mechanism for gaming sites to accrue page hits, advertising income and compete with other gaming sites for the "validity" of the accolades they offer.

Ah. So he indeed agrees it's a popularity contest? Then my mistake. But then again, back to my original question, why is winning this vote so important? What's the end goal here? A popular consensus that Eve is the best? Seems a bit dishonest.

Remiel Pollard wrote:
What part of "If the polls are a popularity contest, then no" did you struggle with exactly?

Honestly? I guess the part where you don't clearly declare whether you agree or disagree with your "if" statement above P.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2016-12-21 16:15:25 UTC
Railyn Quisqueya wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Railyn Quisqueya wrote:
I'm sure this will hurt some feelings, but what does it matter if Eve ranks last or first, other that to say "my peepee is bigger than yours"? Eve players pride themselves in driving away the masses and claiming this game isn't for everyone. So, is it really that terrible if the polls agree with this sentiment?


1) Nobody here drives anyone away, or wants to. Quite the contrary.
2) All EVE players, new and old, are "one of us".
3) Until they aren't.
4) Until they are again, weeks/months/years, later.
5) EVE players are proud of the opportunity and community this game offers to everyone.
6) These polls are a tedious annual occurrence across dozens of sites trying to get a leg up on other such sites.
7) My peepee is YUUUUUGE.


I don't know, my friend. I strongly disagree with (1) and (2). I've seen many player interactions and comments expressing joy in leading players out to the door (regardless of reasons... this is a different topic all together). And I've played this game long enough to have seen wars of "us vs them" within the Eve community. "If you don't play like me you are not one of us". It's a common and prevalent theme here.

Oh, and congratulations on your huge peepee. I hope it's workin' out for ya Pirate.


I'm also glad when certain people leave. The people who were always going to leave, that is, regardless of who you might want to blame for their departure. Since ascension launched, I've spent that time blapping all kinds of people in lowsec, both new and old. It's the new players I actually get the most interesting reactions from when they explode. "Can you tell me how you did that? I want to learn." It's the old ones that send me rage mail and allude to intimate moments with my mother. Old established carebears who have spent most of their time in high sec running generic PVE who are used to mostly being left alone. They're the ones that think EVE is something that it isn't, more often than not. And they should absolutely be driven out of this game before they can be allowed to spread their misconceptions of this game and their awful habits to incorrigible newbros.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2016-12-21 16:22:41 UTC
Railyn Quisqueya wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Railyn Quisqueya wrote:
I have to disagree with you on this

You are agreeing with him.
Everything in your post agrees with him.
You have critically misread/misunderstood what he said.

Proof positive:
-I didnt even look at the other options.
-I voted EVE, by rote, wherever I saw it.

I behaved exactly like you, and Remiel, predicted,
There is no validity in these polls for claiming to declare a "best" of anything.

Its just a marketing mechanism for gaming sites to accrue page hits, advertising income and compete with other gaming sites for the "validity" of the accolades they offer.

Ah. So he indeed agrees it's a popularity contest? Then my mistake. But then again, back to my original question, why is winning this vote so important? What's the end goal here? A popular consensus that Eve is the best? Seems a bit dishonest.

Remiel Pollard wrote:
What part of "If the polls are a popularity contest, then no" did you struggle with exactly?

Honestly? I guess the part where you don't clearly declare whether you agree or disagree with your "if" statement above P.


I posted this thread for a bit of fun. I thought the playful spin on the words used in a certain recent political campaign made that clear, but apparently not. Is it my autism for expecting people to understand the irony or is it everyone elses? How should I know, I really am actually autistic. But I don't actually care what the poll is, I'm not the one that started taking the thread ultra seriously. I don't care if EVE wins, or loses, but judging by the votes so far and compared to what it's up against, as popularity contests go, EVE has done remarkably well. At the end of the day, the people who understand EVE know what it is, and know that it is the single most unique gaming experience available right now. Everything else is dime-a-dozen cookie-cutter crap. Candy with no nutritional value. EVE is a gourmet meal with more secret herbs and spices than the Colonel's fried chicken.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Railyn Quisqueya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2016-12-21 16:25:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Railyn Quisqueya
Remiel Pollard wrote:


I'm also glad when certain people leave. The people who were always going to leave, that is, regardless of who you might want to blame for their departure. Since ascension launched, I've spent that time blapping all kinds of people in lowsec, both new and old. It's the new players I actually get the most interesting reactions from when they explode. "Can you tell me how you did that? I want to learn." It's the old ones that send me rage mail and allude to intimate moments with my mother. Old established carebears who have spent most of their time in high sec running generic PVE who are used to mostly being left alone. They're the ones that think EVE is something that it isn't, more often than not. And they should absolutely be driven out of this game before they can be allowed to spread their misconceptions of this game and their awful habits to incorrigible newbros.


But this is exactly my point. The accepted culture of Eve is that this game is not meant to be popular or mainstream. I'm trying to understand why winning a popular vote seems to be so important to some.

Edit: Just read your comment above. For the record, my curiosity was never about the title. That was pretty clear from the start. In any case, you answered my question. So disregard this post altogether :).
Salvos Rhoska
#77 - 2016-12-21 16:59:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Railyn:

The trial by fire and hazing of players is a gesture of camaraderie and brotherhood by the "dark side" of players.
The advice and assistance offered by players is a gesture of community and support by the "light side" of players.

They are two sides of the same coin, that is EVE.
Any one player can be either, at any time.

Remiel:

You arent autistic. You are just direct and call it as you see it. This is an admirable and virtuous quality, for what it is.
Doesnt mean you are always right, though. Its ok to be wrong. We all are, eventually (and frequently) wrong.


I think we can all agree these polls by gaming sites are silly, and exist only to profit/benefit the issuing gaming site in terms of site hits, advertising and raising their "awards" above those of other such sites.

They do not represent the quality of a game, only how many people they have managed to divert to participate in their poll


Having said that, I agree with Remiel's effort in OP.

If we can improve CCPs margins, and bring more attention to this game, and more meat for our grinder, just by clicking on a few websites, Im for it.

With a concerted effort we could subvert the methods of these sites, and competing games, by utterly outvoting all alternatives, on every site, every year, easily.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2016-12-22 00:26:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Railyn Quisqueya wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:


I'm also glad when certain people leave. The people who were always going to leave, that is, regardless of who you might want to blame for their departure. Since ascension launched, I've spent that time blapping all kinds of people in lowsec, both new and old. It's the new players I actually get the most interesting reactions from when they explode. "Can you tell me how you did that? I want to learn." It's the old ones that send me rage mail and allude to intimate moments with my mother. Old established carebears who have spent most of their time in high sec running generic PVE who are used to mostly being left alone. They're the ones that think EVE is something that it isn't, more often than not. And they should absolutely be driven out of this game before they can be allowed to spread their misconceptions of this game and their awful habits to incorrigible newbros.


But this is exactly my point. The accepted culture of Eve is that this game is not meant to be popular or mainstream. I'm trying to understand why winning a popular vote seems to be so important to some.

Edit: Just read your comment above. For the record, my curiosity was never about the title. That was pretty clear from the start. In any case, you answered my question. So disregard this post altogether :).


The Bugatti Veyron isn't popular or mainstream, but it's a high quality piece of automotive machinery. Candy is extremely popular and mainstream, but it's got no nutritional value whatsoever, and every last piece tastes just like the last one. EVE Online isn't popular or mainstream because it's not easy to get into. It's not a 'plug and play' game, but rather, it's a learning experience that requires an active frontal lobe, because if you don't have or can't muster the right attitude and personality to deal with the other people in this game, you're going to fail. It requires attributes of the human mind that only exist for a minority of people because most people grew up in a cotton wool being handed everything on a silver platter.

This game is a high-quality gaming experience by virtue of being the single most unique gaming experience available. That's the qualifier, and the only one it needs. The very long list of things in this game that make it that are not easy to come across: single-shard, player-driven, your choices aren't just illusions of choice but actually matter. There are a range of games that I would put up there with EVE where high-quality gaming experiences go: XCOM, the most complicated game of chess ever, is the first that comes to mind.

The reason EVE isn't as mainstream as other games, though, is because it isn't candy. It's got real nutrition.

And Salvos, I actually am autistic. I was professionally diagnosed twenty years ago, went through a decade and a half of CBT and drug treatment for comorbidities, and here I am.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104