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Blueprint copy requested changes

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Jonathon Silence
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-12-05 05:58:37 UTC
Hey great and might CSM.

I was just wondering if one of you would consider looking into the issue of Blueprint copies and some improvements that have been discussed in the following thread. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=498288&find=unread

Summary:

While initially seen as something for invented Tech II bpc's people have seen the potential value as a more generic solution for any BPC's (of the same ME/TE).

Basic idea is a facility to merge/split bpc's (for a price, but not as a job). This would allow the consolidation of BPC runs into less objects scattered through inventory locations.

To go along with this we would also like to have the BPC's max runs attribute removed as this now just serves as a mechanism for preventing large runs of an item, but this is already controlled with the 30 day job limit so the only thing the Max runs attribute does is make it so you can not run a BPC for as long as a BPO in manufacturing, which while of some value is not really the way it should be.

The advantages we see for the game are as follows.

Reduced items in inventory - less load on the DB, freeing up unique ID's for items
BPC's can be better managed and created at the exact number need for jobs (or BPC sale packs)
ISK sink for the service, so long as the cost of the service is fair

Should not be to difficult to implement as a similar function already exists for the reduction of BPC runs due to invention or manufacturing. Though a new UI for this would need to be developed.


Happy to further talk with any CSM member that thinks there is some value in this and is willing to take it to CCP.
Mordachai
Eternal Darkness.
The Initiative.
#2 - 2016-12-05 12:47:48 UTC
Yes please do talk about this within the CSM and let us know what you think.

This will fix an issue for us builders that ahve to put on hundreds of new jobs every few hours with craplods of alts.
Also our inventories will hopefully lag less and the organizing of blueprint will become bareable.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#3 - 2016-12-05 14:26:46 UTC
The biggest problem I can see with allowing BPCs to be combined, is that the number of runs is a limiting factor in how long a job can run for. Being able to run a longer job makes it easier to build some things. And they're already easy enough that it'll saturate any market for it. So those things will only periodically be profitable, unless you're using a BPO.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
PopeUrban
El Expedicion
Flames of Exile
#4 - 2016-12-05 22:48:29 UTC  |  Edited by: PopeUrban
Since it was my idea I guess I'll chime in.

We went over that in the thread as well, and basically the cons here mostly seem like edge cases, or questionable situation like drone bpcs where the the batch is so small ME doesn't actually do anything.

What people mostly agreed on was that its desirable QOL, but there was some disagreement as to how much, if any, opportunity cost should be attached to balance it out.

What we don't have information on is how much of an intentional limiting factor things like "lost run time" due to player efficiency or "lost ME value" due to simple math applied to cheaper jobs, and how much of it is just a product of the scale of EVE industry from CCP's perspective. Like, is this an intentional part of production balance meant to incentivize people to slavishly log in and manage jobs for production advantage, or is the primary design goal for production one of raw resource/time/job slot efficiency alone.

Where CCP sits on the question of these two issues is unclear, given the design changes to invention in crius (and indeed the removal of the 24h skill que, upwell structure vuln mechanics etc.) it seems CCP has been trending away from mechanics that prioritize logging in more as opposed to managing systems effectively by scheduling less frequent logins intelligently.

So bringing it up at some point if you could would be fantastic to see if "balance by login frequency" and "useless ME" are actually intentional, as that's going to inform where this sort of thing sits in the scale from "QoL" to "ISK sink" and honestly we don't have CCPs ear to figure out what's what.
Jonathon Silence
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2016-12-06 00:57:07 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
The biggest problem I can see with allowing BPCs to be combined, is that the number of runs is a limiting factor in how long a job can run for. Being able to run a longer job makes it easier to build some things. And they're already easy enough that it'll saturate any market for it. So those things will only periodically be profitable, unless you're using a BPO.


From memory, of the hazy past, Max Runs was actually brought in to stop people making hug run BPC's and taking up slots in the old slot based research and manufacturing system. It had nothing to do with making BPC's not able to be built in large runs, though it does now serve this purpose. (I remember infinite run BPC's and then the introduction of Max Run BPC's).

Also the max run had more meaning with the old ME system, but as each ME is now 1% saving and we are still limited by the 30 day cap I do not see any significant gain from removing this other than if you are working from BPC's (Structure Components for example) being limited to 7 runs in a build from a BPC rather than 30 days worth from a BPO. So unless it is a method to force people using BPC's to run more slots which just uses up more alt character build slots.

It will not affect the build hours (it might actually increase them and the system index as builders will no put in more longer running jobs) as the same hours are in 1 job rather than 2 jobs.

And thanks heaps for taking this up. Even if CCP come back with some other options something to help manage the number of BPC's.
Mordachai
Eternal Darkness.
The Initiative.
#6 - 2016-12-06 09:24:18 UTC
I understand the idea of it ruining the market but if you look at it at my prime in building i had 22 alts producing with 10 slots each (11 on some) thats 220+ jobs to do every several hours and with the lag of all the bpc's its a painstaking job to do so often.