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Alpha Clones And Possible Battlecruiser Use
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Wolfgang Jannesen
Scrapyard Artificer's
#21 - 2017-02-02 13:11:05 UTC
Unless you're hauling in mountains of isk, EvE is a game that is pretty firmly pay to play. Alpha characters aren't second class citizens struggling to gain rights, you're playing a trial version and I wouldn't expect access to more than alpha's already have access to.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#22 - 2017-02-02 13:56:01 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Give battlecruisers to beta clones.


The Gnosis isn't quite as powerful as it is beautiful. Limited racial weapon layouts reduce the power of an alpha pilot in a Gnosis. This is especially strong with the Caldari and Minmatar who cannot put in a proper flight of drones to balance out its meager set of weapons. In the hands of a trained Omega clone, the Gnosis is a bit stronger than other combat battlecruisers. But in the hands of an alpha, the racial combat battlecruisers would be stronger. (The exception is probably the Prophecy, which has an even weaker weapons layout for an alpha clone, though it has a strong defensive bonus.)


The tier 3 battlecruisers are today referred to as Attack Battlecruisers. The Attack type ships are those that focus on offense, leaving defense a mere afterthought. Other attack ships include the "tier 1" destroyers, frigates like the Kestrel, cruisers like the Thorax, battleships like the Apocalypse, and some of the navy ships. Furthermore, giving attack battlecruisers to alpha clones wouldn't be that bad. They'd have to fit them with medium turrets, and those ships don't even have the powergrid for a full rack of those things.



I think you (and others are missing THE POINT of ALL the alpha threads. CCP gives a free handout. Now those getting the free handout incrementally want just a little bit more here....... here...... here..... oh and um..... here. The free football just gets slowly pushed toward the goal until that tipping point where no one pays for the game. There are several things at play here. It's not about game mechanics. It's about me. Me and my wallet.

Eventually alphas will be given enough free extra stuff as to where they will be able to inflict their will on the game I'm paying for. Guess what. When that happens - Serendipity isn't going to pay for a game that free players can ruin / detract from. Once enough Serendipity style paying players stop paying - how do the servers get updated??

Another factor is that as free gets to be baby stepped to better and better at some point the free alpha account does enough that players will swap from paying to playing for free simply because free offers enough that paying no longer makes sense.

A final factor to consider. The world is changing. A lot of folks such as myself are just plain getting tired of paying the way for others who ride for free. I play Eve for enjoyment and to get away from all of that. If I'm paying a subscription that allows most others to play the same game on free accounts - I'm no longer enjoying the game and I'm going to stop paying for it.

So, let's stop looking at the merits of this little advancement or that little enhancement. Look at the big picture. As CCP takes these little steps - where does the journey end? CCP could do a better marketing job up front. Change 'free to play' (which isn't remotely true with respect to MOST of the game) to 'unlimited LENGTH of play time on FREE TRIAL account' and back that up with 'take as long as you like to decide if Eve is right for you' (which would be true and not mislead alpha accounts into thinking they have any say in how the game is changed over time).

Also, give alphas 'read only' access to the forums. Just like you need alliance credentials to post in COAD, you should have 'I pay for the game' credentials to post on the forums (at least this one).
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2017-02-02 16:58:03 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I think you (and others are missing THE POINT of ALL the alpha threads. CCP gives a free handout. Now those getting the free handout incrementally want just a little bit more here....... here...... here..... oh and um..... here. The free football just gets slowly pushed toward the goal until that tipping point where no one pays for the game. There are several things at play here. It's not about game mechanics. It's about me. Me and my wallet.

Not even slightly true, for me at least. Probably you're right about several of the others but not all of them.

It's not about me wanting to pay less for the game, it's about me wanting to share more in the experience. I have some money, but it's not enough to justify paying for this game. For years I was paying it anyway, but I finally unsubscribed because I simply cannot afford it anymore. I'm not asking for expansions to alpha clones, I'm only asking for beta clones. I'm asking for ways to pay more than nothing, but all you hear is that I want to pay less than the full amount. Well I'm not paying the full amount. If I could afford it, I would be.

My aim is to suggest if CCP adds beta clones, they can get extra funds from a portion of the potential playerbase who cannot afford the full subscription. I don't know how significant this demographic is, but I know I am one of them. If anything, I would have reduced what's available to alpha clones. I feel they should not be able to fly the Gnosis, and there's other things they shouldn't get for free. But CCP disagrees with me and believes they should have all that.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2017-02-02 17:04:54 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
David Grogan wrote:
i would agree to alphas using bc so long as large guns are not allowed

therefore they can use tier 1 / tier 2 bc as they are designed but not tier 3 bc

that way they can run missions / rat in null but not be able to use bc to suicide gank using talos blasters or tornado's insta blaps

ccp could make the bc skill limited

level 1. tier 1 bc
level 2. tier 2 bc

level 3 tier 3 bc (not available to alphas)


There are no tiers anymore.

And why do you need a battlecruiser to rat? Is it 2009?

Last time i played was 2009. First thing I thought when I came back was where's the BC.

We should just bring back tiers :)
Seriously i liked tiers better I'm not liking how all the races have the exact same ship roles.
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2017-02-02 17:11:20 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I think you (and others are missing THE POINT of ALL the alpha threads. CCP gives a free handout. Now those getting the free handout incrementally want just a little bit more here....... here...... here..... oh and um..... here. The free football just gets slowly pushed toward the goal until that tipping point where no one pays for the game. There are several things at play here. It's not about game mechanics. It's about me. Me and my wallet.

Not even slightly true, for me at least. Probably you're right about several of the others but not all of them.

It's not about me wanting to pay less for the game, it's about me wanting to share more in the experience. I have some money, but it's not enough to justify paying for this game. For years I was paying it anyway, but I finally unsubscribed because I simply cannot afford it anymore. I'm not asking for expansions to alpha clones, I'm only asking for beta clones. I'm asking for ways to pay more than nothing, but all you hear is that I want to pay less than the full amount. Well I'm not paying the full amount. If I could afford it, I would be.

My aim is to suggest if CCP adds beta clones, they can get extra funds from a portion of the potential playerbase who cannot afford the full subscription. I don't know how significant this demographic is, but I know I am one of them. If anything, I would have reduced what's available to alpha clones. I feel they should not be able to fly the Gnosis, and there's other things they shouldn't get for free. But CCP disagrees with me and believes they should have all that.


Gnosis is the only decent alpha ship tho for making any decent money.
Shame it's so ugly. It just needs a redesign visually.
Kenrailae
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2017-02-02 17:42:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenrailae
I'd be okay with this. People like to keep saying Alpha's can already fly cruisers, pay or go home, or the like. Problem with that stance is they can only just sorta crowbar a workable fit on them with their restricted skills for both the hull itself and fittings/weapons. Yes.... it works, but it leaves things in the awkward place of having pretty much all the skills required to fly a BC(even in their handicapped form), but not being able to because....? If crowbarred fits are okay with cruisers, they should be fine for BC's as well. Or otherwise made to be a little less crowbarred, a little more able to compete. It's more sensible to draw that line where there is a skill set jump, not right through the middle of an skill set group IMO.


Yes, I'm aware that you can do most null sec ratting in a VNI. Yes, I'm aware they can fit faction. Yes I'm aware of alpha canes.


Also the Gnosis is fine.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Lugh Crow-Slave
#27 - 2017-02-03 01:32:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
-1 alphas don't need more


-100000 because you think T3 battle cruisers stands for tech 3 and not tier 3






EDIT:


i can already see it now


alphas can fly BCs so Alphas should be able to use links

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
mkint
#28 - 2017-02-03 02:59:37 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
-1 alphas don't need more


-100000 because you think T3 battle cruisers stands for tech 3 and not tier 3






EDIT:


i can already see it now


alphas can fly BCs so Alphas should be able to use links

If alphas could use links they should get to fly strategic cruisers and command ships. ;)

@ everyone who thinks BCs need to be unlocked for alphas... no. they don't. People don't sub to a game because of the imaginary swords or spaceships. At least not in enough numbers to matter. They sub to a game because the experience is fulfilling. It's like with the sample spoons mentioned earlier... if an ice cream shop already gave you a sample of all 100 different flavors just for walking in the door, it wouldn't enhance the experience in any way. In the ice cream shop scenario, allowing more than 1 or 2 samples wouldn't enhance the experience (I know damned well what cookies and cream tastes like, I don't need a sample of it, and I don't need a sample of pistachio broccoli, I'm not going to buy it.)

The only part of the Alpha experience that matters is getting players involved with a group. The ships don't matter, they aren't the core experience. The specific activities don't matter. Just getting involved with people. The game doesn't begin with the tutorials, it begins when you join a corp, and the old trial system didn't give you the chance to do that in a meaningful way. If you want to give players free samples, come up with ideas for players to sample corps without being stuck with a bad one.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#29 - 2017-02-03 03:16:33 UTC
mkint wrote:

The only part of the Alpha experience that matters is getting players involved with a group. The ships don't matter, they aren't the core experience. The specific activities don't matter. Just getting involved with people. The game doesn't begin with the tutorials, it begins when you join a corp, and the old trial system didn't give you the chance to do that in a meaningful way. If you want to give players free samples, come up with ideas for players to sample corps without being stuck with a bad one.



this is one of the main reason i don't like the racial lock it makes things extremely taxing on CEOs and directors to handle incorporating alphas and a lot of the time you need to bend over backwards in fleet comps to make them work. Aside from the extra work this takes in fleet crafting and logistics I have noticed it creating a rather negative divide between omages and alphas in the smaller groups i'm involved with (larger ones seem to be immune to this for the most part or its just slower to show idk atm). What is happening is the omegas feel impeded anytime they are having to fleet up in a way that requites things like split logi or begin seeing alphas as just through away mobs when you put them out w/o intending to rep them. (these are two main strategies i have seen implemented so far the sacrificial one has created a less hostile atmosphere).


another lock that causes issue is the E-war lock it used to be that E-war was a powerful way for newbros to make an impact now however they are locked into one form of E-war some far less useful than others with alpha skills

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Koebmand
Silverflames
#30 - 2017-02-03 05:12:11 UTC
Combat BattleCruiser (CBC) and Attack BattleCruiser (ABC, old Tier 3) is the new names.

Doesn't matter if Alphas can sit in Tornado and Talos, they can't fit weapons.

Of course,as soon as they can sit in them, they need the weapons too. gimme gimme gimme snowball is already mentioned.
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