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Transferring a Character with 1 Year of Omega left

Author
Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-12-01 17:42:24 UTC
Zorn Cosby wrote:
So you are arguing that a paid account, that had to struggle to get to 5M sp, should not have access to what is FREE to unpaid players? That a PAID account should have less benefit than an UNPAID account?

An unpaid account can now generate a 5M sp character for no cost. A paid account cannot generate such a character for no cost. So, to generate a 5M sp character on an Omega account either requires a multi-month commitment of the paid sp generation portion of an account holder, OR a multi-month commitment of MCT, VS creation of a new Alpha account, daily interaction of that account to do NOTHING OTHER THAN SET THE QUE until it reaches 5M sp and then the account gets transferred to the paid account for LESS MONEY than would otherwise be required for the paid account to generate said character.

This is not rational.

Why does it have to struggle and it does have access to what alpha accounts have access to, plus a whole lot more.

We don't pay to get less. As soon as you switch to omega you have access to additional ships, modules and capabilities across industry, trading and contracting.

It's not all about skill points.
Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2016-12-01 18:37:10 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:

Why does it have to struggle and it does have access to what alpha accounts have access to, plus a whole lot more.

We don't pay to get less. As soon as you switch to omega you have access to additional ships, modules and capabilities across industry, trading and contracting.

It's not all about skill points.


I HAVE paid accounts. But now CCP is offering players that have NO FINANCIAL commitment to the game 5M sp toward a new character for zero dollars. This character has value. This character's value for zero dollars is far in excess of a single month of Omega costs in terms of sp generation. So now why, for zero dollars and no commitment toward the game WHATSOEVER, should a 5M sp character be available and convertible to an Omega character, when current Omega players do not have access to the SAME 5M sp character as an alt on the same PAID account?

You are arguing that paid accounts are worthwhile, I have not said otherwise. I am arguing that if you give 5M sp out for free to those with no financial commitment and no history of financial commitment to the game, why is CCP not offering this to those who wish to start alts on their paid accounts, when they have demonstrated financial commitment to the game?

It is CHEAPER BY FAR for existing Omega account owners to start an entirely new Alpha account, get that account maxed out for no cost, then pay to transfer it to the Omega account than it is to have an alt started on the Omega account from the very get go. MCT or using the Omega account to start a new alt is irrational in the current model. Period.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#23 - 2016-12-01 19:28:13 UTC
Zorn Cosby wrote:


I HAVE paid accounts. But now CCP is offering players that have NO FINANCIAL commitment to the game...


Quote:
I am arguing that if you give 5M sp out for free to those with no financial commitment and no history of financial commitment...



So basically, you're the kind of self-absorbed child who manages to convince yourself that you're being ripped off any time you perceive someone else is getting a "deal".

Alpha accounts exist, first and foremost, as a marketing tool to further CCP's business interests. The chief purpose is converting people with "no financial commitment" into paying customers. It's not a gift, and it wasn't designed to be a mechanism to facilitate and streamline the creation of non-revenue generating alts.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2016-12-01 19:35:07 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:

So basically, you're the kind of self-absorbed child who manages to convince yourself that you're being ripped off any time you perceive someone else is getting a "deal".

Alpha accounts exist, first and foremost, as a marketing tool to further CCP's business interests. The chief purpose is converting people with "no financial commitment" into paying customers. It's not a gift, and it wasn't designed to be a mechanism to facilitate and streamline the creation of non-revenue generating alts.



Wow moved pretty quick to name calling since your argument against fell flat. CCP offers something for free to non paid account holders, paid account holder wants the same or better. And I guess that you don't want the same thing or better from CCP because you have more money or time than most of us?

Really?
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2016-12-01 19:43:00 UTC
Zorn Cosby wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:

So basically, you're the kind of self-absorbed child who manages to convince yourself that you're being ripped off any time you perceive someone else is getting a "deal".

Alpha accounts exist, first and foremost, as a marketing tool to further CCP's business interests. The chief purpose is converting people with "no financial commitment" into paying customers. It's not a gift, and it wasn't designed to be a mechanism to facilitate and streamline the creation of non-revenue generating alts.



Wow moved pretty quick to name calling since your argument against fell flat. CCP offers something for free to non paid account holders, paid account holder wants the same or better. And I guess that you don't want the same thing or better from CCP because you have more money or time than most of us?

Really?
Paid account holders get better than unpaid ones, so there is no issue.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#26 - 2016-12-01 19:47:43 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Zorn Cosby wrote:

Wow moved pretty quick to name calling since your argument against fell flat. CCP offers something for free to non paid account holders, paid account holder wants the same or better.


You already get the same or better (a LOT better, in fact). The mechanism is intended to entice new customers to pay. You're literally whining about the fact that a marketing ploy intended to bring in new paying customers doesn't afford you, an already-paying customer, any special treatment.

Nobody has a single care to spare for your desire to concurrently frontload 5 million SP onto omega-alts at no additional cost to yourself. Get over it and pony up the plex.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-12-01 21:00:05 UTC
Zorn Cosby wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:

So basically, you're the kind of self-absorbed child who manages to convince yourself that you're being ripped off any time you perceive someone else is getting a "deal".

Alpha accounts exist, first and foremost, as a marketing tool to further CCP's business interests. The chief purpose is converting people with "no financial commitment" into paying customers. It's not a gift, and it wasn't designed to be a mechanism to facilitate and streamline the creation of non-revenue generating alts.



Wow moved pretty quick to name calling since your argument against fell flat. CCP offers something for free to non paid account holders, paid account holder wants the same or better. And I guess that you don't want the same thing or better from CCP because you have more money or time than most of us?

Really?

But we do get better for being omega.

There is no aspect of an omega that is inferior to an alpha.

Not a single one.
Solonius Rex
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2016-12-01 21:09:08 UTC
Zorn Cosby wrote:


You are arguing that paid accounts are worthwhile, I have not said otherwise. I am arguing that if you give 5M sp out for free to those with no financial commitment and no history of financial commitment to the game, why is CCP not offering this to those who wish to start alts on their paid accounts, when they have demonstrated financial commitment to the game?


You are free to make a trial account and get as many Alphas up to 5 million skillpoints as you want. There are no restrictions placed upon you.
Quote:

It is CHEAPER BY FAR for existing Omega account owners to start an entirely new Alpha account, get that account maxed out for no cost, then pay to transfer it to the Omega account than it is to have an alt started on the Omega account from the very get go. MCT or using the Omega account to start a new alt is irrational in the current model. Period.


Again, time is an issue. You have to invest more time to get an alpha to 5 m than an omega. Twice the amount, infact. And yes, Time is just as important as money, and can translate to money as well.

People who do not want to wait, get MCT. They cannot stand around because they dont want to waste TIME.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#29 - 2016-12-01 21:33:11 UTC
Solonius Rex wrote:
Zorn Cosby wrote:


You are arguing that paid accounts are worthwhile, I have not said otherwise. I am arguing that if you give 5M sp out for free to those with no financial commitment and no history of financial commitment to the game, why is CCP not offering this to those who wish to start alts on their paid accounts, when they have demonstrated financial commitment to the game?


You are free to make a trial account and get as many Alphas up to 5 million skillpoints as you want. There are no restrictions placed upon you.
Quote:

It is CHEAPER BY FAR for existing Omega account owners to start an entirely new Alpha account, get that account maxed out for no cost, then pay to transfer it to the Omega account than it is to have an alt started on the Omega account from the very get go. MCT or using the Omega account to start a new alt is irrational in the current model. Period.


Again, time is an issue. You have to invest more time to get an alpha to 5 m than an omega. Twice the amount, infact. And yes, Time is just as important as money, and can translate to money as well.

People who do not want to wait, get MCT. They cannot stand around because they dont want to waste TIME.


Not only that, but his argument is that since A is cheaper than B, instead they should just make it available at absolutely no additional cost.

If you make your alt on a separate account because you want to train concurrently with your main, then transfer it later, it's going to cost you two plex.

If you make your alt on your existing account and want to train concurrently with your main, it's going to cost you an MCT per month.

What he proposes effectively deletes this revenue.

Mostly this boils down to entitled, "People who aren't me are getting something so I should get a concession, too, because I deserve things, because I am me," type thinking.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2016-12-01 21:35:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Zorn Cosby
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Paid account holders get better than unpaid ones, so there is no issue.

Not true, paid account holders HAVE to pay for the first 5M sp on their accounts. Unpaid do not. This only encourages a proliferation of accounts for those with paid accounts.
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
] You already get the same or better (a LOT better, in fact). The mechanism is intended to entice new customers to pay. You're literally whining about the fact that a marketing ploy intended to bring in new paying customers doesn't afford you, an already-paying customer, any special treatment.

Nobody has a single care to spare for your desire to concurrently frontload 5 million SP onto omega-alts at no additional cost to yourself. Get over it and pony up the plex.


Again, personally disparaging those on the community is so effective. Take much away from the US presidential election? Very effective upon those less educated...

I have suggested having this available via plex if you bothered to read, but guess you don't have the time. This is a matter of comparable offering of sp to those that actually PAY for their accounts vs gifts to those that do not.
Scipio Artelius wrote:

But we do get better for being omega.

There is no aspect of an omega that is inferior to an alpha.

Not a single one.

Alpha is FREE for 5M sp. Omega is not.

The take away from this is that the community supports a proliferation of accounts vs offering the SAME THING to paid subscribers without the proliferation of accounts. This is the totally irrational part...
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#31 - 2016-12-01 21:57:09 UTC
Zorn Cosby wrote:


Again, personally disparaging those on the community is so effective. Take much away from the US presidential election? Very effective upon those less educated...


If you don't want people to comment on your selfish entitlement, don't display it so openly in public.

Quote:
I have suggested having this available via plex if you bothered to read, but guess you don't have the time. This is a matter of comparable offering of sp to those that actually PAY for their accounts vs gifts to those that do not.


Well, no, you suggested being able to just buy 5 million SP for one plex, when a transfer will cost you two (and a significant amount of time, to boot). See if you can spot the lost revenue. I'll wait while you count on your fingers.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2016-12-01 22:01:29 UTC
Zorn Cosby wrote:
Alpha is FREE for 5M sp. Omega is not.

The take away from this is that the community supports a proliferation of accounts vs offering the SAME THING to paid subscribers without the proliferation of accounts. This is the totally irrational part...

Incorrect.

Alpha is free to ~5 million SP, racially locked, slow training, limited skills and limited access to ships and modules.

Omega has none of those restrictions. The Omega account is in every way superior. We can train all of the skills that an alpha can train, but do so twice as fast; and have access to a lot more.

This discussion is getting pointless now, because you are looking at 2 different products and complaining that the one with the fewer capabilities is a better product. It isn't.

However, you are also free to make an alpha and train it if you think that is superior. No one is going to stop you.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2016-12-01 22:08:11 UTC
Zorn Cosby wrote:
Not true, paid account holders HAVE to pay for the first 5M sp on their accounts. Unpaid do not. This only encourages a proliferation of accounts for those with paid accounts.
No account has to pay for that first 5mil because paying is not not a mandate to have that SP (assuming you want that SP in the alpha skillset).

What you get if you do pay is the ability to get that same amount of SP faster and removed hardcaps on what that SP can be in.

That's nothing but gains over an alpha account. If you don't feel that has any value you can solve your issue by lapsing to alpha or starting a new alpha account.

Zorn Cosby wrote:
Again, personally disparaging those on the community is so effective. Take much away from the US presidential election? Very effective upon those less educated...

I have suggested having this available via plex if you bothered to read, but guess you don't have the time. This is a matter of comparable offering of sp to those that actually PAY for their accounts vs gifts to those that do not
...
Alpha is FREE for 5M sp. Omega is not.

The take away from this is that the community supports a proliferation of accounts vs offering the SAME THING to paid subscribers without the proliferation of accounts. This is the totally irrational part...
If training speed and skill selection differences are removed then yes, it's the same thing. But since they are not removed they are not the same.

As far as account proliferation, that's something CCP has marketed to for quite some time.
Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2016-12-01 22:31:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Zorn Cosby
SurrenderMonkey wrote:

If you don't want people to comment on your selfish entitlement, don't display it so openly in public.

Well, no, you suggested being able to just buy 5 million SP for one plex, when a transfer will cost you two (and a significant amount of time, to boot). See if you can spot the lost revenue. I'll wait while you count on your fingers.

Wow really wanting to show your colors very clearly I see... Calling me entitled, yet disparaging my solutions and offering no alternatives except the irrational current situation. And then continuing the name calling since your discussion was specious and your reading of my comments was superficial. Just wow.

Now lets get the ACTUAL quote from earlier in the convo that you so carefully chose to NOT read for content...

Zorn Cosby wrote:

If you really wanted to make things completely fair, then have paid Omega users have the ability to purchase a maxed Alpha character as a secondary using PLEX or so. This would not encourage the proliferation of account generation...


If you really wanted to capture the actual costs and have CCP make more money, then the cost offered by CCP to add a 5M sp alpha character to a paid account should be ~2 Plex. This would be a bonus in cash to CCP since it would actually be LESS to create and train a current Alpha account cause 1 Plex is all that is needed to transfer and 1 month of Omega time (cheaper than a Plex, particularly at the Alpha discount). This would actually probably prove to a be prime money maker to CCP for those looking to try something different on their existing accounts but not wanting to do MCT for the excessive cash output or stop training of their primaries for several months.

Scipio Artelius wrote:
Incorrect.

Alpha is free to ~5 million SP, racially locked, slow training, limited skills and limited access to ships and modules.

Omega has none of those restrictions. The Omega account is in every way superior. We can train all of the skills that an alpha can train, but do so twice as fast; and have access to a lot more.

This discussion is getting pointless now, because you are looking at 2 different products and complaining that the one with the fewer capabilities is a better product. It isn't.

However, you are also free to make an alpha and train it if you think that is superior. No one is going to stop you.

Incorrect. 5m sp is 5M sp, saying that core skills is not important for a huge number of characters is being needlessly argumentative.

I am not campaigning that it is superior, but that it is free and NOT AVAILABLE to those that pay WITHOUT adding accounts. Account proliferation is not something to be proud of, it is a needless byproduct of incomplete marketing and planning on CCP's part.

And by the way, please find a quote of me saying that Alpha is superior to Omega, I have NEVER said that. I said that Alpha is free for 5M sp and that Omega is NOT. These are FACTS.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#35 - 2016-12-01 23:01:46 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Zorn Cosby wrote:
Calling me entitled, yet disparaging my solutions and offering no alternatives except the irrational current situation. And then continuing the name calling since your discussion was specious and your reading of my comments was superficial. Just wow.


Well, yes. I'm calling you entitled, because you're insisting that you deserve something for nothing. This is also the impression you leave when you start loudly crying about how you, the all-important "paying customer", aren't getting your fair due relative to people who haven't paid anything, as you did here:

Zorn Cosby wrote:


I HAVE paid accounts. But now CCP is offering players that have NO FINANCIAL commitment to the game...


And here:

Quote:
I am arguing that if you give 5M sp out for free to those with no financial commitment and no history of financial commitment...



This is pretty much distilled entitlement. Your sub provides you EXACTLY what it provided last month. Absolutely nothing has changed in this regard. If the availability of an inferior good at a lower pricepoint has adjusted your personal measure of the subscription value such that this is no longer sufficient to justify the cost, you are free to allow your subscription to lapse. In no way does it mean you deserve anything more for your sub than was previously offered, however.


I'm not offering alternative solutions because you have, so far, completely failed to make the case that there is any problem requiring a solution, here, and I'm not really into solving non-problems.

We just had more or less the same tedious thread last week, with the same trite, "I deserve more stuff because other people are getting stuff for free now," arguments you've put forth here.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2016-12-01 23:11:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Zorn Cosby wrote:

Incorrect. 5m sp is 5M sp, saying that core skills is not important for a huge number of characters is being needlessly argumentative.

I am not campaigning that it is superior, but that it is free and NOT AVAILABLE to those that pay WITHOUT adding accounts. Account proliferation is not something to be proud of, it is a needless byproduct of incomplete marketing and planning on CCP's part.

And by the way, please find a quote of me saying that Alpha is superior to Omega, I have NEVER said that. I said that Alpha is free for 5M sp and that Omega is NOT. These are FACTS.

Who said core skills are not important?

Yes, you are compliaining. Pointlessly, because:

1. No one is forcing any of us to pay until we max out an alpha; and

2. the number of skillpoints is not the only benefit of an omega.

You're complaining about one aspect and ignoring all the other aspects of being an omega as though they don't count. They do.

Nowhere did I claim you said alphas are superior to omegas. I said there is not a single aspect of an alpha that is superior to an omega and that if you think they are, then you are free to make one. Train it up and transfer it.

No account, alpha or omega gets a second character training queue for free. It doesn't exist in the game for anyone.
Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#37 - 2016-12-01 23:30:41 UTC
Zorn Cosby wrote:
So from a practical perspective in terms of dollars. All characters should max out via an Alpha before purchasing an Omega. It is cheaper to farm Alpha accounts for sp, then purchase 1 PLEX to transfer to another account than it would be to have that character developed as a secondary on the PAID Omega account.

How is making the dedicated PAID user jump through hoops to train up a secondary character to maxed Alpha status a good thing?

If you really wanted to make things completely fair, then have paid Omega users have the ability to purchase a maxed Alpha character as a secondary using PLEX or so. This would not encourage the proliferation of account generation...

Dude. Ccp have made an awesome game we all want to enjoy for a long time. Give them their real money they are due and enjoy. Stop being a tight arsed Yorkshire man.
Zorn Cosby
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2016-12-02 15:05:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Zorn Cosby
Sigh, another instance of the community that chooses to attack a member vs support the good of the game. While I was not that thrilled with Eve over the last couple of years, I now realize that the community base is as much of the problem as the direction of CCP. For as much as the community base and CCP claims to want to attract and retain new members, honestly to a multi-year player it just feels otherwise. Just unsubed 8 accounts totaling over 700M sp.

Thanks for making it clear that eve's community consists of those looking to tear down vs build up. I'll spend my money elsewhere, and probably a lot less of it.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#39 - 2016-12-02 21:05:02 UTC
Zorn Cosby wrote:
Sigh, another instance of the community that chooses to attack a member vs support the good of the game.


Conflating your own self-severing desires and "the good of the game"?

Threatening to take your ball and go home if you don't get your way?

But this isn't about entitlement, right? Lol

Be a doll and contract me your stuff on your way out.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Scipio Artelius
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2016-12-02 21:08:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Zorn Cosby wrote:
Sigh, another instance of the community that chooses to attack a member vs support the good of the game. While I was not that thrilled with Eve over the last couple of years, I now realize that the community base is as much of the problem as the direction of CCP. For as much as the community base and CCP claims to want to attract and retain new members, honestly to a multi-year player it just feels otherwise. Just unsubed 8 accounts totaling over 700M sp.

Thanks for making it clear that eve's community consists of those looking to tear down vs build up. I'll spend my money elsewhere, and probably a lot less of it.

Who's attacking you?

That we don't agree with your point isn't an attack on you. It's fine for people not to agree and that has nothing to do with supporting the good of the game. That's a non existent argument.

Tbh, that no one agrees with you is possibly as much to do with inability to argue a point effectively as it is the rest of the community don't agree. It's not our problem. We have no obligation to agree with what you write, just as you have no obligation to agree with what we write. Your disagreement isn't an attack on anyone either. It's the same thing both ways.

So if you want agreement with your argument, then your argument needs to be stronger.
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