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CCP why can't I log an Omega and Alpha account on at the same time

First post
Author
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#21 - 2016-11-20 16:45:24 UTC
5/10. I'll paraphrase SurrenderMonkey here, because I can't find the original quote but it was brilliant.

You've gotten something for free but you've somehow managed to convince yourself that you've been ripped off.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#22 - 2016-11-20 17:12:16 UTC
7Genius wrote:


I guess that is just not the case for people who actually pay for the game.


you pay for one account.

this gives you access to one char at a time. why are you confused?

you don't need a trial as you've played 9 years already and you're active so not a returning player.

what you want is a free alt.

Roll
Fatima Foont
#23 - 2016-11-20 17:20:15 UTC
Apparently "paying" (a term OP uses ad nauseum) entitles one to anything they might desire.
Salvos Rhoska
#24 - 2016-11-20 18:39:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Id be ok with each one Omega account being able to fly one Alpha account simultaneously.

My reason for this, is that the potential of especially a new player to create and engage in content is dramatically greater as a result, whilst subbing Omega account for its benefits, and supported by an impaired/restricted Alpha. There is sooo much more you can do with two accounts as a single player, than with only one, even if the other axxount is only Alpha.

Require that Alpha account be registered to the same email address as the attached Omega account, in order to use them simultaneously.

When sub expires, you can only fly one of them as Alpha till you resub either one.

Changing email address of the account/s would again require them both to be registered to the same account (with emailmconfirmation) till any of those associated accounts, as Omega, can fly ONE of the associated Alpha accounts for the duration of the Omegas sub.

This may not stop people flying multiple separate Alpha/Omega accounts on any number of email registrations, but it would draw a direct cinnection between ONE omega and ONE alpha, as from that email registration.

Result:
In addition to the email registration restriction, IP analysis and other metadata from customer behavior on whichever accounts, this should be reasonably enforceable for CCP (infact, arguably more enforceable than before).

PS: It was possible to fly a trial and a subbed account simultaneously before. I wont go into the details, but legally/technically there where options. It was also similarly possible to fly an i definate amount of trial accounts simultaneously.. NB: Launcher cnanges did not entirely address these.

PPS: CCP should ofc naturally make decisions that ensure their own fiscal interest,
-I firmly believe that 2 accounts are a fundamental content multiplier in the overall interest of each player as well as the game.
As Ive said many times, the content creation/experience potential for ALL players, especially new ones, flying two accounts is enor ous compared to just one, even if the other is just an Alpha.
Pendra Tahyan
Doomheim
#25 - 2016-11-20 19:08:46 UTC
There are tons of reasons why being able to log onto a Omega and an Alpha account at the same time would be a horrible thing and I would say game balance is the most important.

Not only would it be a kick in the nutz of Players who have paid for more then one Omega Account but it would also give Omega players even more of an edge over Alphas then is already the case.

Note that I'm only playing on one account myself and thus would be able to take advantage of a free simultaneous Alpha account but I wouldn´t find that fair to those who have paid for the same thing and thus say no to this idea.
Salvos Rhoska
#26 - 2016-11-20 19:23:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
1) Your Omega account receives its benefits in terms of SP and no skill restrictions. That had been paid for.
2) Your Alpha is restricted in SP and skill use.
3) Your argument in hat t it would be unfair to Omega accounts, is met by these arguments:
-- An Omega account, in my proposal, can fly an Alpha alongside. Hence you have the benefit of the Alpha, for free, to support your Omega accounts activities.
--An Alpha account player, without an associated Omega account, does not.
4) As an Omega, you should get a free Alpha to run alongside it. (cos its FREE)
5) As an Alpha, they get only their Alpha account, with its restrictions, for free.
6) The Alpha player is not paying anything. You, as an Omega, are.
7) To invert your argument of it being "unfair" for an Alpha player, paying nothing, to be at a disadvantage, is that not irrational?
They can fly their Alpha for nothing, whereas you pay to fly your Omega.
8) Should you also not get the benefit of flying an Alpha for FREE too? Since Alpha costs nothing, does it not make sense to be able to fly one for free, as they do, in addition to PAYING to fly your Omega?

Alphas fly a FREE service. As it is FREE, should that FREE option not be included in a PAYED option as well, since it is FREE?

The current system means when you pay, you lose the "free" part that all Alphas enjoy.
This is irrational. If Alphas cost nothing, they should be included in a paid sub,
Albeit, with restrictions to avoid exploitation, and as I propose, at one Alpha per one Omega account, as long as registered to the same email account..

It doesnt make sense that Alphas can play an account for free, whereas an Omega account loses that just cos they paid.
A free Alpha, should remain free for an Omega account as well. (x1)
Ergo, an Omega account should retain a capacity to fly a free account (Alpha) in conjunction with their paid Omega.

TLDR: Alphas fly for free. Omegas fly for cost. Its silly that Omegas lose the capacity to fly for free, because they paid. They should retain the capacity to also fly for free, on 1x Alpha, in addition to their paid account.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-11-21 02:24:44 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Alphas fly a FREE service. As it is FREE, should that FREE option not be included in a PAYED option as well, since it is FREE?



No, because it's not there for the benefit of people who are already paying.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Salvos Rhoska
#28 - 2016-11-21 13:26:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Alphas fly a FREE service. As it is FREE, should that FREE option not be included in a PAYED option as well, since it is FREE?



No, because it's not there for the benefit of people who are already paying.
r

Purpose is subjective, mutable and interpretable.
The purpose of a toilet is for waste disposal, but you can also use it as a seat or a water source in an emergency.

Consider the following example:
-You are in a store that is offering free smaller, less packaged/perfect samples of their product.
-You consume a sample, and enjoy it.
-You buy the product at full price.
-You ask if you can still have a free sample.
-They respond, "no, because you bought the product".
-Meanwhile you watch as other customers who have not paid ANYTHING yet continue to gorge themselves on the free samples.
-But you cant.

Do you see what I mean?

As I proposed, and outlined, Omega accounts should ideally have access to ONE alpha account, as long as that alpha account is registered to the same Email account as the subbed Omega. When the Omegas sub expires, the client returns to the standard rules, and you will only be able to fly one or the other of the now alpha accounts.

Its not rational, that when ypu pay for a service, you lose access to the free service offer others enjoy without paying anything, especially in this situation, since the alpha accounts cost CCP nothing (nor do they provide any revenue) and more total accounts looks good for the game and its statistics, as well as retaining more players/content.

Its FREE. Ergo, costs nothing. Its not rational to lose access to a free service, when you PAY.

If anything, allowing one Alpha per Omega account would increase subscription rates, because it makes Omega that much more valuable/practical.

Id argue that an Omega player that has access to an Alpha as well, is more likely to get attached to that account, and potentially buy a sub for it too in future, especially once its basic SP limit is full.

Remember that the Alphas themself cost nothing for CCP, provide no revenue, and improve account figures.
Omegas are already the paying customers. Providing them an Alpha option makes them more likely to invest more money, and they nominally are the most likely market to have funds with which to pay.
Sameli Adelora
Celestial Industrial Supplies
Templis Strategic Division
#29 - 2016-11-21 13:50:13 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Alphas fly a FREE service. As it is FREE, should that FREE option not be included in a PAYED option as well, since it is FREE?



No, because it's not there for the benefit of people who are already paying.
r

Purpose is subjective, mutable and interpretable.
The purpose of a toilet is for waste disposal, but you can also use it as a seat or a water source in an emergency.

Consider the following example:
-You are in a store that is offering free smaller, less packaged/perfect samples of their product.
-You consume a sample, and enjoy it.
-You buy the product at full price.
-You ask if you can still have a free sample.
-They respond, "no, because you bought the product".
-Meanwhile you watch as other customers who have not paid ANYTHING yet continue to gorge themselves on the free samples.
-But you cant.

Do you see what I mean?

As I proposed, and outlined, Omega accounts should ideally have access to ONE alpha account, as long as that alpha account is registered to the same Email account as the subbed Omega. When the Omegas sub expires, the client returns to the standard rules, and you will only be able to fly one or the other of the now alpha accounts.

Its not rational, that when ypu pay for a service, you lose access to the free service offer others enjoy without paying anything, especially in this situation, since the alpha accounts cost CCP nothing (nor do they provide any revenue) and more total accounts looks good for the game and its statistics, as well as retaining more players/content.

Its FREE. Ergo, costs nothing. Its not rational to lose access to a free service, when you PAY.


While I do think that omegas should be allowed to have an alpha logged in at the same time, I do see where it could and would be a problem.
Also this is basically how everything works: Take Directv for example, new customers get free HBO and Skinamax, a lower rate, and NFL Sunday ticket, while the customer that has been there for 10 years gets disconnected is they are late on there payment. At least in eve you can still play with limited skills, Directv doesn't even give you local channels.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2016-11-21 14:15:36 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Alphas fly a FREE service. As it is FREE, should that FREE option not be included in a PAYED option as well, since it is FREE?



No, because it's not there for the benefit of people who are already paying.
r

Purpose is subjective, mutable and interpretable.
The purpose of a toilet is for waste disposal, but you can also use it as a seat or a water source in an emergency.

Consider the following example:
-You are in a store that is offering free smaller, less packaged/perfect samples of their product.
-You consume a sample, and enjoy it.
-You buy the product at full price.
-You ask if you can still have a free sample.
-They respond, "no, because you bought the product".
-Meanwhile you watch as other customers who have not paid ANYTHING yet continue to gorge themselves on the free samples.
-But you cant.

Do you see what I mean?

As I proposed, and outlined, Omega accounts should ideally have access to ONE alpha account, as long as that alpha account is registered to the same Email account as the subbed Omega. When the Omegas sub expires, the client returns to the standard rules, and you will only be able to fly one or the other of the now alpha accounts.

Its not rational, that when ypu pay for a service, you lose access to the free service offer others enjoy without paying anything, especially in this situation, since the alpha accounts cost CCP nothing (nor do they provide any revenue) and more total accounts looks good for the game and its statistics, as well as retaining more players/content.

Its FREE. Ergo, costs nothing. Its not rational to lose access to a free service, when you PAY.

If anything, allowing one Alpha per Omega account would increase subscription rates, because it makes Omega that much more valuable/practical.

Id argue that an Omega player that has access to an Alpha as well, is more likely to get attached to that account, and potentially buy a sub for it too in future, especially once its basic SP limit is full.

Remember that the Alphas themself cost nothing for CCP, provide no revenue, and improve account figures.
Omegas are already the paying customers. Providing them an Alpha option makes them more likely to invest more money, and they nominally are the most likely market to have funds with which to pay.


I'm going to assume you just decided to ignore the point I made, and reiterate it for you.

Alpha accounts are not there for the benefit of people who are already paying. Ie, those already willing to subscribe to get the full experience. Comprender? Intellegitis? Look, I'll make this really simple for you. If you want to run more than one account, you have to pay, it's that simple. If you want to play for free, CCP are generously allowing you to do so with limitations, because why the actual **** should they give you more than they have? "Its not rational to lose access to a free service, when you PAY" I hear you shout. Well, that's not what's being offered, is it, so that's all the rationale you need. Don't like it? Too ******* bad. Being able to run more than one account is just like any other feature of EVE online not on the 'freebie' menu.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2016-11-21 14:20:46 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Consider the following example:
-You are in a store that is offering free smaller, less packaged/perfect samples of their product.
-You consume a sample, and enjoy it.
-You buy the product at full price.
-You ask if you can still have a free sample.
-They respond, "no, because you bought the product".
-Meanwhile you watch as other customers who have not paid ANYTHING yet continue to gorge themselves on the free samples.
-But you cant.



What planet do you come from that this actually happens? What store would allow people to gorge themselves on free samples? None, not one. You get one per customer, in any normal store that isn't completely inept at business, and then it's buy, or get out the store. You really don't have the first clue how free sampling works, do you?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Rayit
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2016-11-21 14:21:35 UTC
Pendra Tahyan wrote:
There are tons of reasons why being able to log onto a Omega and an Alpha account at the same time would be a horrible thing and I would say game balance is the most important.


You wouldn't be able to do this if your Alpha and Omega characters were on the same account. You can do this as things stand. People are running their main account alongside a separate Alpha account.

Adding an Alpha character slot to Omega accounts seemed like a simple and tidy suggestion. If it's not so simple then we can all just stick to running multiple accounts. Just seems a lot of "admin" for what it's worth.
Memphis Baas
#33 - 2016-11-21 14:29:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Opposed to the suggestion of allowing Omega + Alpha, because:

- To quote Raph King-Griffin and others who have said this in other similar threads, "no free scouts for you". The "option" of a free scout becomes the "mandatory requirement" of a free scout, because it's a disadvantage to not have it. And scouting affects PVP activities in a major way. No free scouts. Make friends, or pay for it through your nose (subscription required).

- As a matter of fact, people who want to multi-box or play multiple Omega accounts at the same time, should pay MORE than the sum of the subscriptions. An extra fee for being able to log in multiple characters simultaneously. Call it "you want to be anti-social, pay a fee" fee. Small fee for 2 accounts, exponential fee for crazy setups of 8-16-32 people mining, all at the same time, all one guy.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2016-11-21 14:31:18 UTC
Rayit wrote:
Pendra Tahyan wrote:
There are tons of reasons why being able to log onto a Omega and an Alpha account at the same time would be a horrible thing and I would say game balance is the most important.


People are running their main account alongside a separate Alpha account.


And they're not meant to be. I've already seen two people doing this get banned, so if you think they can't detect it, think again.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104

Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#35 - 2016-11-21 14:33:39 UTC
I, too, want a free scout / cyno guy / hauler / etc etc etc and don't care what effect that would have on the game as a whole and CCP staying in business so we can play it. FREE NAO!



Memphis Baas
#36 - 2016-11-21 14:34:40 UTC
CCP should make the Launcher color all other accounts red when an Alpha account is logged in (becoming green). To make their rule more obvious.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#37 - 2016-11-21 14:43:13 UTC
7Genius wrote:
As a paying customer for this game I think it is pretty disparaging that we can't have one Omega and one Alpha clone (an alt account) logged in simultaneously.

I figure since I am now one of the people supporting this game and have been for 9 years, I was very disappointed to learn that I can not have an alpha clone logged in at the same time as my Omega. Maybe you don't appreciate your paid customers support, maybe this hasn't come up as an issue for you yet but it's not exactly fair for those of us who pay for the game to not have access to at least on Alpha clone.

As far as I see it if I am paying for an Omega account I should still be able to access at least one Alpha, can you please respond to the community of paying players on this.

If you want an alt scout for your main, you have to pay for it.

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Frozen fanfiction

Jennifer Starblaze
Fury Transport
#38 - 2016-11-21 14:53:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Jennifer Starblaze
I think it is just find the way it is.

If you pay for an account you pay to remove the alpha limitations and not to get a free account. Also CCP has to draw the line somewhere ans this is the best possible solution.

After all of you include the ability to run an alpha account if you pay for an Omega account, you would have to give each player x free accounts for x accounts he pays. Well, you don't have to, but that certainly is something people would whine about next. After all it is hard to justify that you get a free account for one payed account, but not for the other one which would mean that your first would get the full benefits of a subscription while your second or account number x would not.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#39 - 2016-11-21 15:01:20 UTC
You should let this go, guy. It's not happening - no way, no how - and you have to be quite distantly divorced from any appreciable understanding of gameplay and Eve meta to think it's a good idea. Learn more, speak less.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Salvos Rhoska
#40 - 2016-11-21 15:03:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Maybe its cos Im a stingy, honest and simple Finn.

But something chafes me about losing access to a free service, simply cos I paid.

In my mind, I should receive the benefits of that free service as well as the additional services I have paid for.
It is free, afterall, and in this case costs CCP nothing.

Im not going to start a huge crusade about this but I think I have atleast outllined some considerations that to my mind indicate it would be beneficial both to CCP and to the player base, that each single Omega account can simultaneously fly a single Alpha account (as long as they are registered to the same email account).



There probably are some heinous ways to exploit this that EVEs famously creatiive and nefarious community will come up with, but at face value I dont see any atm. Plus since any Omega can field on Alpha, the status-quo remains the same between all Omega players. Its as much an advantage to any and all subbed players.



I am of the opinion including an Alpha account option with each Omega, will help incentivize subbing.
It increases the value of an Omega sub, at no cost to CCP.

I think this is particularly important, considering EVE, as Alphas, has now essentially become F2P.
Inorder to offset players simply remaining Alpha, or making more Alphas, hence giving no revenue to CCP
-,Including an Alpha option per Omega, makes subbing much more attractive.

Also, especially for new players (and to some degree space rich old vets), being able to fly an Omega and an Alpha at the same time is a huge multiplier in terms of opportunity for engaging in AND creating content.

If I was today a brand new player in EVE, on an Alpha, considering my options I would be much much more likely to sub if I knew I could fly my main as Omega as well as flying an Alpha alongside it. It would mean I can fly my main, train it, and have a seoond Alpha to support it. Thats huge. And since free players are flying Alphas for free anyways, why not?

See what I mean?