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Maybe Alphas should have Cloaking I

Author
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#1 - 2016-11-18 19:43:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
I've been thinking about this. Especially after talking to some older players returning to play the alpha.

The whole point of the Alpha program is to give people a taste as many different facets of eve play while still reserving enough to give incentives to subscribe. We want more people in null and ls right? The problem here is that getting in-and-out of ls/null in standard racial ships is generally done with the aid of an prototype or improved cloak.

With a cloak standard ships have a chance, not a great one, but a viable chance of getting through gate camps, especially bubbles. An explorer, for example, doesn't only want to get their ship through a camp, but they want to bring the loot back as well. Which is important. Players generally need to feel like they have a worthwhile chance before they take a chance.

And back on the whole concept of giving players a taste of EVE. This is only a taste. The most common piece of advice given about the prototype cloak is "never use it. Use improved cloak only." Why? Because prototype sucks. But even a prototype cloak can be better than no cloak. Anyone that uses a prototype cloak will desire a better cloak, which provides incentives to pay. On the other hand, if a player has to base their gameplay on not having a cloak, then there is less incentive to pay for a subscription.

Denying cloak skill to 2 week or 30 day trial members is one thing, but now that it is basically infinite trial, trial players should be able to access intermediate gameplay. I don't think anyone can argue that prototype cloaks are OP, and slowboating around with a prototype cloak active will give lots of incentive to subscribe and use a better cloak.

Anyway, what do you think?

--

edit,
Well, we are 3 pages in and I thought I had a good point, but even in light of that the response is overwhelmingly negative. So let me modify the argument.

If prototype cloaks were modified so they consumed fuel and limited the duration an alpha could cloak, which would eliminate afk cloaking. Would you accept alpha cloaking then? If so what kind of limit on the cloak would be appropriate.

I think it should definitely be long enough to slowboat out of a bubble get far enough away to decloak and warpout from a standing camp.

edit2 - Another interesting suggestion is a 1 minute cloak. Such a cloak would be useful for getting past camps, and not much else.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Rin Vocaloid2
DUST University
#2 - 2016-11-18 19:47:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Rin Vocaloid2
I think you're asking for a **** ton of AFK Cloaky Alpha Alts in null-sec space by account holder who are very likely to be Eve veterans who are looking for way to grief their null-sec foes.

PS: Pardon my response. When I see any idea presented by any player, my first thought is "how can I exploit this?"
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM Defensive Initiative
#3 - 2016-11-18 19:50:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
And here I was thinking about a big ball of Alpha justice dealers rolling thru lowsec and null sec...

What a disappointment. 😭
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#4 - 2016-11-18 19:52:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Quote:
I think you're asking for a **** ton of AFK Cloaky Alpha Alts in null-sec space by account holder who are very likely to be Eve veterans who are looking for way to grief their null-sec foes.

PS: Pardon my response. When I see any idea presented by any player, my first thought is "how can I exploit this?"


Cloaky alpha alts is a valid argument. But I don't see an afk alpha cloaker as being any different than an omega afk cloaker. That's more of an "Is afk cloaking really griefing argument." Which I've never supported.

Considering that an alpha and omega account can't be active at the same time, this isn't enabling players to do anything different than they already are. It's not as if an omega could set up an alpha afk cloaker and play on their omega account at the same time.

Also, "How can i exploit this." is the right way to think. So bravo.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#5 - 2016-11-18 19:56:13 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
And here I was thinking about a big ball of Alpha justice dealers rolling thru lowsec and null sec...

What a disappointment. 😭


Big ball of Alpha justice dealers are still on the table. This is more a matter of solo or small group play.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Maekchu
Doomheim
#6 - 2016-11-18 19:57:58 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Cloaky alpha alts is a valid argument. But I don't see an afk alpha cloaker as being any different than an omega afk cloaker.

With cloaking being limited to Omegas, then there at least is some form of barrier of entry.

If Alphas could cloak, there would be none. So I am also sure, that cloaky afk alts is one of the main reasons Alpha does not have a cloak.

On a side note, just get rid of local as an intel tool already...
Kojee
Safety Set To Red
Death Korps 0f Krieg
#7 - 2016-11-18 20:00:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Kojee
Dumbest idea ever. As a BitterVet©, I would routinely use a cloaked Alpha as a scout. Yes, it would benefit me, but it would make it way too easy for any and all players to essentially have a free, untouchable scout if they have a spare computer in the house. Not to mention how epicly ******* broken the whole cloak-align-warp trick is.

I, for one, am glad cloaks are disabled for Alphas.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#8 - 2016-11-18 20:00:31 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:


And back on the whole concept of giving players a taste of EVE. This is only a taste. The most common piece of advice given about the prototype cloak is "never use it. Use improved cloak only." Why? Because prototype sucks.



Bullshit. It matters for cloaky-MWD-instawarps, where the prototype speed reduction exceeds the MWD speed boost, but outside of that, a prototype is perfectly serviceable for a huge portion of non-covops cloaking applications.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2016-11-18 20:01:59 UTC
Never used one, not sure what I'd do with it to be honest if you can't do anything while cloaked iirc.
Are cloaks important now? I remember recon ships and stealth bombers having those but it never seemed interesting to use

Looking at ships id rather have access to planet stuff/mining/industry but I'm not a pvp guy at heart.
I only made this guy to try and get into it actually once I get my wifi turned back on which actually went out on the 15th as my luck would have it.

Rin Vocaloid2
DUST University
#10 - 2016-11-18 20:02:10 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Quote:
I think you're asking for a **** ton of AFK Cloaky Alpha Alts in null-sec space by account holder who are very likely to be Eve veterans who are looking for way to grief their null-sec foes.

PS: Pardon my response. When I see any idea presented by any player, my first thought is "how can I exploit this?"


Cloaky alpha alts is a valid argument. But I don't see an afk alpha cloaker as being any different than an omega afk cloaker. That's more of an "Is afk cloaking really griefing argument." Which I've never supported.

Considering that an alpha and omega account can't be active at the same time, this isn't enabling players to do anything different than they already are. It's not as if an omega could set up an alpha afk cloaker and play on their omega account at the same time.

Also, "How can i exploit this." is the right way to think. So bravo.


Thank you for the rebuttal.

Now that you brought up the Alpha clone limit regarding multi-boxing, I can see how this afk-cloaky thing might not get out of hand. But since this is still new from CCP and they are keeping a close eye on this, we'll have to wait and see if CCP thinks it's ok to allow such a thing.

Of course, jumping into null-sec even with a cloak is no guarantee that the Alpha pilot won't get caught in a bubble. Even with a covert ops cloaking device on my Nemesis, I have had a few close calls while traveling through The Great Wildlands uninvited.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#11 - 2016-11-18 20:09:30 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:


And back on the whole concept of giving players a taste of EVE. This is only a taste. The most common piece of advice given about the prototype cloak is "never use it. Use improved cloak only." Why? Because prototype sucks.



Bullshit. It matters for cloaky-MWD-instawarps, where the prototype speed reduction exceeds the MWD speed boost, but outside of that, a prototype is perfectly serviceable for a huge portion of non-covops cloaking applications.


Well, I'm just repeating a common sentiment. Normally, I was satisfied with a prototype, especially if trying to move a standard frigate through hostile space. The whole point of "fly cheap" can be defeated real fast with more expensive modules than necessary.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Rin Vocaloid2
DUST University
#12 - 2016-11-18 20:10:52 UTC
Kojee wrote:
Dumbest idea ever. As a BitterVet©, I would routinely use a cloaked Alpha as a scout. Yes, it would benefit me, but it would make it way too easy for any and all players to essentially have a free, untouchable scout if they have a spare computer in the house. Not to mention how epicly ******* broken the whole cloak-align-warp trick is.

I, for one, am glad cloaks are disabled for Alphas.


A spare computer is one way to get around it but that's assuming enough players have a spare computer at home. Maybe a potato laptop where you can fly Drakes on a plane. But even then, that has to be a limited number of players.
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2016-11-18 20:11:31 UTC
Ehm....no
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2016-11-18 20:17:40 UTC
Kojee wrote:
Dumbest idea ever. As a BitterVet©, I would routinely use a cloaked Alpha as a scout. Yes, it would benefit me, but it would make it way too easy for any and all players to essentially have a free, untouchable scout if they have a spare computer in the house. Not to mention how epicly ******* broken the whole cloak-align-warp trick is.

I, for one, am glad cloaks are disabled for Alphas.

Why is cloak warp broken?
Matthias Ancaladron
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2016-11-18 20:21:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Matthias Ancaladron
Rin Vocaloid2 wrote:
Kojee wrote:
Dumbest idea ever. As a BitterVet©, I would routinely use a cloaked Alpha as a scout. Yes, it would benefit me, but it would make it way too easy for any and all players to essentially have a free, untouchable scout if they have a spare computer in the house. Not to mention how epicly ******* broken the whole cloak-align-warp trick is.

I, for one, am glad cloaks are disabled for Alphas.


A spare computer is one way to get around it but that's assuming enough players have a spare computer at home. Maybe a potato laptop where you can fly Drakes on a plane. But even then, that has to be a limited number of players.


You're talking about my primary laptop lol. I'm on low to medium for all settings with most stuff disabled lol.
If I could afford a second laptop I could afford to subscribe and have a not junk laptop to play on and I never would have went inactive on my 2009 account which I just recovered.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#16 - 2016-11-18 20:22:35 UTC
Matthias Ancaladron wrote:
Never used one, not sure what I'd do with it to be honest if you can't do anything while cloaked iirc.
Are cloaks important now? I remember recon ships and stealth bombers having those but it never seemed interesting to use

Looking at ships id rather have access to planet stuff/mining/industry but I'm not a pvp guy at heart.
I only made this guy to try and get into it actually once I get my wifi turned back on which actually went out on the 15th as my luck would have it.



It's not just for pvp, it's for avoiding pvp. In fact, the prototype is not very good for a pvp attacker because of the almost prohibitive targeting delay.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2016-11-18 20:23:49 UTC
Holy sh*t no.

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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#18 - 2016-11-18 20:28:56 UTC
While I understand people might have a negative response. I'm hoping for a discussion, so a few words explaining the reason, or reasons for your position would be appreciated.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Othran
Route One
#19 - 2016-11-18 20:32:20 UTC
Maybe people aren't aware that running an alpha and an omega clone concurrently (however you do it) is going to earn you a permaban?

Pretty prominent in the EULA and easily detectable if CCP choose to do so :

"2. YOUR ACCOUNT

You may establish more than one Account for each copy of the Software licensed. You are however not allowed to play EVE by using more than one Account at the same time, unless you pay a subscription fee for each of the Accounts you intend to use for that purpose."

That's condition 2 of the EULA guys and affects CCPs revenue stream so best case you'll get hit with a 6 month ban. Far more likely you get permabanned,

I think alphas need access to cloaking skills/mods so they understand their options aren't just "jump & be ganked" - from their limited perspective.
Kojee
Safety Set To Red
Death Korps 0f Krieg
#20 - 2016-11-18 20:37:16 UTC
As an addendum to my earlier post...


Alphas are really around for one reason: increase player base to drive subscription growth. Practically speaking, I think it makes perfect sense for all the "good ****" to be turned off. I am a BitterVet©, yes, however EVE is my drug of choice and I don't want to see my supply run dry. That being said, I think Alphas are great the way they are - a good way to get your fix if you don't want to pay, or a good way to try EVE out if you have no idea if you'll even like it but without being stuck to a 30 day time box.
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