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Paying to play Alpha clones?

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Bozze
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-11-16 22:57:12 UTC
See...

I knew everyone was going to have an opinion on this. It's why in my original post I stated I wanted to hear from the Devs. You all reply like yours is THE answer but unless you work for CCP then you are just giving your opinion. Not the answer.

@u3pog: you say I should be thankful I have free access. If you want to go that route then you get to blame CCP for me playing for free and not me. They are the ones that made it FTP.

"9001 ventures and eyes in every system." what is this a slogan? Thats 2 people that said the exact same thing. Like I said before...the eyes are going to be in every system anyway...maybe not 9001 all on at once but they can do it without multiboxing.

@Radical Posture: One Launcher per box can be done now. Multiboxing is running multiple clients on the same computer. Running 1 client per computer is allowed.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2016-11-16 23:04:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Neuntausend
Bozze wrote:
I knew everyone was going to have an opinion on this. It's why in my original post I stated I wanted to hear from the Devs. You all reply like yours is THE answer but unless you work for CCP then you are just giving your opinion. Not the answer.

Entirely your fault. :)

If you post it on the forums, you will have to make do with us. If you want an official answer, you'll likely have to write a ticket and wait in line like everyone else.

Edit: Although, chances are Falcon will stop by and pretty much say "for reasons", or "for balance reasons" if he is in a good mood and you are lucky.
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2016-11-16 23:13:04 UTC
Bozze wrote:
See...

I knew everyone was going to have an opinion on this. It's why in my original post I stated I wanted to hear from the Devs. You all reply like yours is THE answer but unless you work for CCP then you are just giving your opinion. Not the answer.

@u3pog: you say I should be thankful I have free access. If you want to go that route then you get to blame CCP for me playing for free and not me. They are the ones that made it FTP.

"9001 ventures and eyes in every system." what is this a slogan? Thats 2 people that said the exact same thing. Like I said before...the eyes are going to be in every system anyway...maybe not 9001 all on at once but they can do it without multiboxing.

@Radical Posture: One Launcher per box can be done now. Multiboxing is running multiple clients on the same computer. Running 1 client per computer is allowed.

1. You can't multibox 9001 ventures with alpha clones. It's also entirely useless to get intel on neighboring systems by logging your main off. Limiting multiboxing keeps me from just alt-tabbing over, which will make it enough of a PITA that people won't want to do it.
2. You were literally linked a portion of the dev blog. Written by the devs. There you go.

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
Bozze
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2016-11-16 23:22:44 UTC
@Dark Lord Trump: I was already replying when that was posted so I missed it...sorry. Congrats on the election too.

@Eli Stan: thank you for that link. I appreciate it.

quoting part of it:

" We’ve been deliberately trying to remove this kind of system (see off grid links) and certainly don’t want to add a giant new version of it with Clone States."

sounds like they are trying to remove multiboxing even for paying players. Or I am just reading it wrong.

Anyway...as much fun as this has been I am going back into the game and consolidating my holdings...see you there.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#25 - 2016-11-16 23:24:29 UTC
It's not one person manning 9000 ventures that is the problem. Think of the following 2 scenarios...

A gank fleet with 10 pilots: now grant those pilots each unlimited alpha accounts. They could all easily multiple 3 catalyst clients. You now face a gank fleet of 30 ships. That is a tad unbalancing. Yes, in theory, those 10 could pay for 3 accounts. Still over powered but 450$ in CCP's pocket to continue developing the game is a trade off I am willing to accept.

Now scale this scenario up, not for ganking but a nul sec battle. 500 in a defense fleet of a large alliance capital system. They all log in an extra 2 accounts. The system jumps to 1500 and TDI would kick in. It would be nearly impossible for any group to kill a citadel given the current tdi mechanics. Yes again all 500 could pay 45$ a month but that becomes a tad crazy to expect of people.

Limiting alphas to one log in basically is a power check to prevent meta abuse of the game on a grand scale.
Radical Posture
The Outsiders.
#26 - 2016-11-16 23:33:13 UTC
I just find it ironic that it took me almost 10 years and 3k USD to actually play EvE for free. And then when I did, You made it Free to Play and took the sand out of my sandbox.

I mean what's next, CCP comes out and says they are The Conference Elite, and CCP Fozzie is James315?
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#27 - 2016-11-16 23:43:27 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Bozze wrote:


I knew everyone was going to have an opinion on this. It's why in my original post I stated I wanted to hear from the Devs.



This type of entitlement is obnoxious enough when it's coming from paying customers. Can't imagine having to put up with this **** from non-paying customers. Someone ought to send the devs a case of beer.

If you want to hear from the devs, drag your lazy ass up to the search box and locate any of the numerous dev posts on the subject.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Bozze
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2016-11-17 01:12:32 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
It's not one person manning 9000 ventures that is the problem. Think of the following 2 scenarios...

A gank fleet with 10 pilots: now grant those pilots each unlimited alpha accounts. They could all easily multiple 3 catalyst clients. You now face a gank fleet of 30 ships. That is a tad unbalancing. Yes, in theory, those 10 could pay for 3 accounts. Still over powered but 450$ in CCP's pocket to continue developing the game is a trade off I am willing to accept.

Now scale this scenario up, not for ganking but a nul sec battle. 500 in a defense fleet of a large alliance capital system. They all log in an extra 2 accounts. The system jumps to 1500 and TDI would kick in. It would be nearly impossible for any group to kill a citadel given the current tdi mechanics. Yes again all 500 could pay 45$ a month but that becomes a tad crazy to expect of people.

Limiting alphas to one log in basically is a power check to prevent meta abuse of the game on a grand scale.



I paid $45 a month for years. Unfortunately I am just one of those people that doesn't abuse the system. I understand they want to keep it fair. I was just hoping to get my other account in to fly an Iteron and haul my ore back to the station. Not trying to take over the cluster or anything. I doubt I would put another Corp out of business either if I just get to use a Venture to mine the ore. Alphas can't even use mining drones.

Anyway...back to the game
Mark Marconi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2016-11-17 01:29:50 UTC
Actually alphas limited to one is fine, as if you for example made them unlimited the power in the game would still be down to those who had the most cash in RL. Bigger, faster more powerful computers and more of them means those with cash are more powerful.

Same goes for the omegas except CCP is able to actually pay for their staff and the upkeep of the game at the same time.

At the end of the day, the paying customers are the ones paying for the game, so being we live in capitalist societies, yes those forking out the cash should see a real benefit over those who don't.

The CSM gets in the way of CCP communicating properly with the players of this game.

After all we are not just players, we are customers.

Time for the CSM to be disbanded.
Princess Adhara
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2016-11-17 02:03:58 UTC
You don't know entitlement until you make a game go f2p.
Nina Hayes
Dark Horse RM
#31 - 2016-11-17 02:11:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Nina Hayes
Eh, never mind....
Memphis Baas
#32 - 2016-11-17 02:15:44 UTC
Bozze wrote:
And I would still like to hear it from the Devs though...
ISD Max Trix wrote:
You may only have 1 Alpha account logged in at a time. This is meant to keep the game in balance.


You heard from ISD. Forum Moderators. You can trust them; they will only reply with the official CCP response.

Devs won't reply to you, because they've already said it, officially, in the Dev Blog. Read the "Clone States" dev blogs, there are 3, and you will see.
Paladin Genghis Khanid
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2016-11-17 02:16:39 UTC
The problem with Alphas is that CCP hasn't committed to an actual F2P model. This is just a gimped version of a trial account that is indefinite. I can't honestly see anyone sticking around past a month as an alpha. So what you'll have is a constant revolving door of new people who never stick around long enough to learn the ropes. Basically, the same thing you have with trial accounts accept alpha clones don't paint as pretty of a picture of EVE as the old trials did so I expect even less people will stick around. You'll get the initial boost in numbers but it will die down. Maybe CCP hopes the new players will not realize just how gimped they are as opposed to returning vet who simply won't stand for the alpha limits for long.

A F2P model includes micro transactions that help improve your experience. You can chose to invest in certain aspects of the game, but not pay for all of it. CCP should be aiming to make some money off of alphas. To just give you this crappy skill set and tell you you're just stuck with this forever is not a proper F2P model. It's a "we need more fodder to keep the Omegas busy" model.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2016-11-17 02:16:43 UTC
Bozze wrote:
I paid $45 a month for years. Unfortunately I am just one of those people that doesn't abuse the system. I understand they want to keep it fair. I was just hoping to get my other account in to fly an Iteron and haul my ore back to the station. Not trying to take over the cluster or anything. I doubt I would put another Corp out of business either if I just get to use a Venture to mine the ore. Alphas can't even use mining drones.

Anyway...back to the game
The issue isn't even "abuse." It's just the normal advantageous use of alts which has a less than fine line before it starts having an effect, especially when scaled across all players. That effect isn't always obvious or immediately apparent.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#35 - 2016-11-17 03:08:57 UTC
Bozze wrote:
But I would like to hear the official reason why this decision was made to limit us even more than the Alpha clones themselves.


The official reason is because the playerbase overwhelmingly said NO. The devs here actually listen to players.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#36 - 2016-11-17 03:16:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Bozze wrote:
thank you for that completely useless reply...


If you don't undertand the reply, that doesn't make it useless.

Recently Eve officially removed the Watch list system. Which allowed you to know the online-offline statuse of any player, whether they were your friend or not.

If multiple alphas were allowed, then there would be VENTURES in every system polling local and aggregating that info. Not to mention mining the crap out of everything. Now as a newbie, you probably wondering if Eve players could do such a thing. But the truth is, eve players ROCK when it comes to aggregating info.

eve-central
evemogul
pirate's little helper
tripwire
eve-files
eve-search
eve-board

etc, etc.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Zoubidah Al-Kouffarde
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2016-11-17 06:44:18 UTC
ISD Max Trix wrote:
You may only have 1 Alpha account logged in at a time. This is meant to keep the game in balance.


Ha, you mean like the limitations on the number of same IP/computer concurrently logged accounts?

It really does a nice job of keeping those multiboxers out of the way, and preventing socially manipulative meta tricks!

"You would not be the first "ganker aligned" player to be found to having some issues. Here's a dark secret: there are some in AG who, because of battling gankers, have managed to get to know a few of them, found they had issues, and helped them" HW
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#38 - 2016-11-17 09:43:16 UTC
calm down miner

You know, you can always pay a subscription if you want to multibox

Evil RatKid
Punctator
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#39 - 2016-11-17 09:59:11 UTC
u3pog wrote:
You should be thankful you have access to the game itself for free, let alone fly ships, go anywhere and do stuff...

I saw in one of the local chats today "My god, I am so limited, I cannot fly any ship"...
Reminds me of the phrase "Throw em a bone and they want a steak." Well, you gotta pay for the steak.

I for one am thankful, even as Omega, because CCP gave chance to many people who couldn't afford the game before.


Sir
it is not a 2003 year anymore. Many things changed, new children was born, new trends in mmo, amd type of gameplay has crystalized. Free to play is natural state of almost every mmo young generation playing now.
In eve it was always adept or die, ccp faceing same rule in real world now and thair are failing miserably completly unable to
make game for newer generation of players.
Norian Lonark
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2016-11-17 11:21:30 UTC
Punctator wrote:


Sir
it is not a 2003 year anymore. Many things changed, new children was born, new trends in mmo, amd type of gameplay has crystalized. Free to play is natural state of almost every mmo young generation playing now.
In eve it was always adept or die, ccp faceing same rule in real world now and thair are failing miserably completly unable to
make game for newer generation of players.


Absolute rubbish, clone states is making it accessible for people to try the game and play the game for an unlimited period of time. If you like the game then you can pay to play it and unlock the entire game. If you dont like the game move onto something that you do like.

There is a balancing act. Having an unlimited amount fo F2P alts would damage every aspect of the game, CCP and the playerbase know this and this is why the limitation was put in place.

Eve is such a great game which has lasted better then any other MMO in my opinion because when its players get hooked there really is nothing else like it. CCP cant just change the game to cater for the whims of this "newer generation" and alienate its playerbase which has enjoyed the games for years.

If you try the game and hate it move on, if you try the game and love it get your wallet out and pay 9.99, its really not that much of an issue, if you can afford a PC to play it on and an internet subscription I am sure you can afford the cost of an eve subscription. And think of all the money you will save. Since playing eve I spend so much less time on other games that its really saving me money to have an eve sub Big smile

Start wide, expand further, and never look back